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Topic: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin (Read 4083 times)

richterfan1

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4 hardest etudes by Chopin

on: April 04, 2011, 07:36:51 PM

Op.10 No.1
Op.10 No.4
Op.25 No.6
Op.25 No.11

Do you agree?

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perfect_pitch

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 10:26:12 PM

OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... Not another one of these threads...

You've already stated this previously:

Quote from: richterfan1 on November 27, 2010, 08:22:32 PM

Op.10, No.1
Op.10 No.4(sure in 3 most difficult)
Op.25 No.6

In a thread entitled "3 most difficult Chopin etudes"... WHY MAKE ANOTHER ONE???

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thalbergmad

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 10:32:56 PM

Quote from: perfect_pitch on April 04, 2011, 10:26:12 PM

OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... Not another one of these threads...

You've already stated this previously:

In a thread entitled "3 most difficult Chopin etudes"... WHY MAKE ANOTHER ONE???

It will be "5 most difficult Chopin etudes" next.

Thal

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ongaku_oniko

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 10:39:46 PM

Amazing induction ability, thal

But I wonder, is the winter wind really that hard? My friend was learning it, did the first two pages in like a week, and said it was quite easy (he didn't practise everyday)

And he isn't even a professional musician; he quit going to a musical conservatoire when he was 12, and hasn't played the piano since then (as in, practising regularly with a teacher, but he does occasionally play when he has a chance, he doesn't have a piano at home though). He's like 23-24 now.

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stevebob

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 01:23:26 AM

Quote from: ongaku_oniko on April 04, 2011, 10:39:46 PM

But I wonder, is the winter wind really that hard?

I began working on 25/11 because it seemed like a good candidate to test C.C. Chang’s advice concerning “parallel sets” (in his Fundamentals of Piano Practice). I found that the patterns fit my hands very comfortably, which made it easier to bring up to speed than many of Chopin’s other fast-tempo etudes. It surprises me that it is invariably included on a typical short list of the “most difficult” ones.

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perfect_pitch

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 11:40:06 AM

Quote from: thalbergmad on April 04, 2011, 10:32:56 PM

It will be "5 most difficult Chopin etudes" next.

That or - whats the next 4 hardest etudes after those ones...

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ahinton

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 12:16:19 PM

Ah, that's an easy one to answer. The first four in Op. 10, then the next four and the next four and the first four in Op. 25 and the next four and the next four. The other three are fortunately somewhat easier.

Best,

Alistair

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emilye

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 01:51:35 PM

op. 10/1, op. 10/2, op. 25/6 - the most difficult but... all Chopin's etudes is crazy.

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Prokofiev - Sonate in d-minor op. 14
Bach/Busoni - Chaccone in d-minor
Bach - II Partita in c-minor
F. Chopin - Barcarole in F sharp major, Op. 60
Ballade in f-minor

ahinton

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 02:27:03 PM

Quote from: emilye on April 05, 2011, 01:51:35 PM

op. 10/1, op. 10/2, op. 25/6 - the most difficult but... all Chopin's etudes is crazy.

None of them is "crazy"! Difficult, yes, but not "crazy". They are fundaments of pianism.

Best,

Alistair

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emilye

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 06:00:20 PM

you don't understand what I mean. perhaps my english is incomprehensible. I agree ! all etudes is difficult, but not all equally difficult.

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Prokofiev - Sonate in d-minor op. 14
Bach/Busoni - Chaccone in d-minor
Bach - II Partita in c-minor
F. Chopin - Barcarole in F sharp major, Op. 60
Ballade in f-minor

ongaku_oniko

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 06:05:48 PM

Quote from: emilye on April 05, 2011, 06:00:20 PM

you don't understand what I mean. perhaps my english is incomprehensible. I agree ! all etudes is difficult, but not all equally difficult.

Your English is fine, emilye. Some people just have nothing better to do than act like an old pregnant dog.

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ahinton

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 06:10:29 PM

Quote from: emilye on April 05, 2011, 06:00:20 PM

you don't understand what I mean. perhaps my english is incomprehensible. I agree ! all etudes is difficult, but not all equally difficult.

No - your English is far from incomprehensible and I do understand what you mean; to me, however, all of those études are very difficult indeed, although at the same time equally rewarding.

Best,

Alistair

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ahinton

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 06:12:18 PM

Quote from: ongaku_oniko on April 05, 2011, 06:05:48 PM

Some people just have nothing better to do than act like an old pregnant dog.

Is that so? Well, I suppose that you would know, but I am not convinced that this fact of itself confers upon you any obligation to do so - and, in any case, it would be hard to imagine "people" (plural) acting like a single dog...

Anyway, never mind that; let's get back to Chopin!

Best,

Alistair

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nanabush

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 03:32:14 AM

I'm going to throw this out there. Take Op 10 #1 off the list. Practice some damn arpeggios and then try it!

There are a handful of etudes with similar difficult techniques but with way bigger textures, dynamic range, and left hand technical demands.

The arpeggiations in Op 25 #11 AND #12 to me go beyond the difficulty of the arpeggios in Op 10 #1.

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joao975ca

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #14 on: April 07, 2011, 03:06:59 PM

Op.10 no.1?
No! In my opinion:
op.10 no.2
op.10 no.4
op.25 no.6
op.25 no.11

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tunneller

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #15 on: April 07, 2011, 04:33:10 PM

Quote from: nanabush on April 07, 2011, 03:32:14 AM

I'm going to throw this out there. Take Op 10 #1 off the list. Practice some damn arpeggios and then try it!

Should one learn arpeggios as pre-requisite to learning to play this etude, or should one use the etude to learn how to play arpgeggios?

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nanabush

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #16 on: April 08, 2011, 05:21:29 AM

You should probably know how to play arpeggios really well first...and broken four note chords.

This etude is weird, because you always have the pinky preceding the thumb (except for a few bars in the middle) going up, and the thumb preceding the pinky coming down. It makes it much easier for me to shuffle my hand along the 'arpeggios'... There really isn't a 'thumb over/under' like conventional arpeggios.

This etude obviously will have technical bits someone learning it will not have seen, but I don't think you could learn this without having played arpeggios before.

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mike_lang

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Re: 4 hardest etudes by Chopin

Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: tunneller on April 07, 2011, 04:33:10 PM

Should one learn arpeggios as pre-requisite to learning to play this etude, or should one use the etude to learn how to play arpgeggios?

I don't think I would recommend using this as an introduction to arpeggi . . . If you start playing it without having an idea of how to expand and contract the hand freely, or how to rotate, it may set you up for some problems later on.

As far as pre-req.s go, aren't there some similar broken chord studies in Czerny's School of Velocity? That may be a good way to familiarize yourself with/learn the basic motions need for the Chopin.

Mike

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