Rach concertos

[liszmaninopin]

Which of Rach's concertos do you feel is the best piece of music?  I'm not speaking of difficulty, I strictly mean the best piece with regards to musical value, expression, and power.

My vote goes to the second concerto.

[thierry13]

I can't really compare in terms of pure musicality, but my personal favorite is the first !

[Motrax]

Every time I listen to one of his concertos, it becomes my favorite. However, in general, I'd say the prize goes to either number two or number four, though I can't decide. Number four is just incredible, but then I think of number two, and then number four again, etc etc...

Hm. The second movement of the second and the first movement of the fourth are the best, that's as close as I can narrow it down to. Though the second movement of the third is incredible, and so is the second movement of the first... bah, too hard a task!

:-/

[thierry13]

Well, personnally i find that every three first concertos looks like the others(never listened to the 4). They are a kind of giant 9 movement concerto. The first, is the last one i listened, i think that it's why he's my favorite. All three concertos are REAL masterpieces, rachmaninoff was a real genius, and his music is really filled with deep emotions. He was really a GREAT composer.

[pianistsk8er]

Quite nicely said, thierry.

I would have to say that I would pick the third, though the second would a very close second.  I think that the third is just amazing, such wonderfully thought out music. I really love the Horowitz recording.

[liszmaninopin]

I love the Horowitz recording, too.

[mh88]

the 3rd is my favorite, especially the second movement...and personally, the best recording i've ever heard is by alexei orlovetsky with the  st. petersburg orchestra...he plays the 1st and 2nd movement better than anyone i have ever heard

the 2nd is also quite good, very moving second movement...superbly played by rafael orozco with the royal philharmonic

[Rach3]

Personally, I have to say the third.

[Max]

Listen to Cziffras Rach 2, that will change anyones mind.

[dlu]

Well, disregarding the 3rd because it would  be impossible for anyone not to like. I would say I like the two underplayed concertos, the 1st and the 4th,  the most. The 2nd doesn't really do it for me (well, except for the 3rd movement).
Can I add another question to this thread....? Well here it is:
How would you catagorize the four concertos and his paganini rhapsody by difficulty?
(ex. 3, 2, 1, 4, paganini rhapsody) No this is not what I actually think (just an example) I have never really seen the music to the fourth concerto and have not really analyzed any of them (except for maybe the third which I find my self scanning and listening to the score every other week).

[LiszTMaN]

CONCERTOS (easiest to hardest) 2,1,4,3

DONT KNOW ABOUT THE THEMES NEVER PLAYED THEM

[super_ardua]

I like 1 and 4 best

[in_love_with_liszt]

You know this brings up a burning question of mine; with as popular and beautiful as these concertos are I keep thinking that there must be solo-piano versions/transcriptions out there somewhere. I've been looking around trying to get my hands on such a score, but without any luck. The closest I've come is a score from the movie "Shine" (never seen it) where they apparently used clips of the 3rd concerto transcribed for solo piano, but only clips, and I'm guessing it's been simplified a bit. Oh just to keep this on track (lol) my favorites are the 3rd and 1st. Don't really like the 2nd very much, and the 4th one is ok, it has some cool moments, and some cheez-whiz moments.

[mh88]

i've seen a solo edition of the 2nd movement of the 2nd concerto...but it is horribly simplified and does no justice to the full score

but other than what you mentioned about the shine version and what i just described...i haven't seen any solo editions...maybe we should just arrange one??

[in_love_with_liszt]

Yeah I think I'll end up doing that someday. It would take a butload of time to transcribe Rach 3 though. I seriously find it hard to believe that someone hasn't already done it with any of the concertos. Sheesh why isn't Liszt still alive? lol

[mh88]

yeah if liszt was alive today he would have 3 different transcribtions out for each concerto  

[maxy]

Cziffra played Rach 2?...
Must get it!

[Motrax]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004167/qid=1092411536/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/104-4583759-9295957?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

I've never heard a better recording of ANY of his concertos from a pianistic standpoint. The orchestra could be better, but Orozco is simply the most stunning pianist I've ever heard on a recording.

Not only that, but it's only 15 bucks for two CDs. You MUST buy this, now now now now now.  

All of the concertos are difficult. Even though the third is probably the most difficult in general, there are certain passages in each other concerto which are uniquely difficult in their own fasions. I think it's a little silly to rate them.

[in_love_with_liszt]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004167/qid=1092411536/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/104-4583759-9295957?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

I've never heard a better recording of ANY of his concertos from a pianistic standpoint. The orchestra could be better, but Orozco is simply the most stunning pianist I've ever heard on a recording.

Not only that, but it's only 15 bucks for two CDs. You MUST buy this, now now now now now.  

All of the concertos are difficult. Even though the third is probably the most difficult in general, there are certain passages in each other concerto which are uniquely difficult in their own fasions. I think it's a little silly to rate them.

I agree. Arguing what is the hardest of the hardest is silly. It's like arguing who wrote harder etudes.

[IllBeBach]

Don't forget to get the concertos played by the composer himself!  It's a must-have for any serious student of piano music.  You can get all of the concertos + the Paganini variations played by S. Rachmaninov from Naxos for a pittance.

[Nightscape]

I doubt Rachmaninoff wrote a new concerto to "replace" the previous ones, because each concerto explores a different path.  So to say that one concerto is better than another is completely subjective.  The concertos are different, but they are all beautiful works of music.

[hodi]

i think the 2nd concerto is the best, the first movement is filled with so much emotions.
i have a recording of zimerman playing it, he plays it so BEAUTIFUL,so smooth,with such a great touch, a must have.

[DarkWind]

I like the 2nd, followed by the 4th, then the 1st and finally the 3rd. Don't like the 3d as much as the others. Also, what do you mean by solo transcriptions of the Rach 3 in Shine? I watched Shine just a few days ago (the part where he threw the Ravel sheets in the pool pissed me off so much!) and there was no such thing. He was practicing mainly the cadenza.

[Spatula]

Every time I listen to one of his concertos, it becomes my favorite. However, in general, I'd say the prize goes to either number two or number four, though I can't decide. Number four is just incredible, but then I think of number two, and then number four again, etc etc...

Hm. The second movement of the second and the first movement of the fourth are the best, that's as close as I can narrow it down to. Though the second movement of the third is incredible, and so is the second movement of the first... bah, too hard a task!

 :-/

Thats SOOOO ME!   

But mine is usually between 2 and 3.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

The 3rd concerto is my favorite piece written by any composer.

[Spatula]

The 3rd concerto is my favorite piece written by any composer.

??

So you like the Beet 3, The Bart 3..the Tchai 3...the Rach 3...The Mozart 3...The Villa Lobos 3...The Mendelssohn 3???


I wish there was a Chopin 3..and  Grieg 2,3...and a Schuman 2,3...

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

The 3rd concerto is my favorite piece written by any composer.

??

So you like the Beet 3, The Bart 3..the Tchai 3...the Rach 3...The Mozart 3...The Villa Lobos 3...The Mendelssohn 3???


I wish there was a Chopin 3..and  Grieg 2,3...and a Schuman 2,3...

Wow... 

May I rephrase that for you: The 3rd Concerto, written by Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, is my favorite piece, over anything written by any other composer. Or I could say (unless that wasn't clear enough), my favorite piece in the world, is the 3rd Concerto, written by Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

Is that still not clear?

Then, I will say it in Spanish:

El 3rd concerto, escrito por Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, es mi pedazo preferido, sobre cualquier cosa escrita por cualquier otro compositor. O podría decir (a menos que ese wasn't despeja bastantes), mi pedazo preferido en el mundo, soy el 3ro concerto, escrito por Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

In French:

Le 3ème concert, écrit par Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, est mon morceau préféré, au-dessus de n'importe quoi écrit par n'importe quel autre compositeur. Ou je pourrais dire (à moins que ce wasn't dégage assez), mon morceau préféré dans le monde, est le 3ème concert, écrit par Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.


In Russian:

3-им концертом, написанным Сергеи Рачюманинофф/Рачюманинов/Рачюманинош, будет моя любимейшая часть, над что-нибыдь написанным любым другим composer. Или я смог сказать (если то wasn't не освободить достаточно), моя любимейшая часть в мире, буду 3-им концертом, написанным Сергеи Рачманинофф/Рачюманинов/Рачюманинош.

And in Greek:

Το τρίτο συναυλία, που γράφεται από Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, είναι το αγαπημένο κομμάτι μου, πέρα από τίποτα που γράφεται από οποιοδήποτε άλλοδήποτε συνθέτη. Ή θα μπορούσα να πω (εκτός αν εκείνο το wasn't καθαρίζει αρκετών), το αγαπημένο κομμάτι μου στον κόσμο, είμαι το τρίτο Concerto, που γράφτηκε από Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.



I hope that I have clarified that for you.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

[DarkWind]

El 3rd concerto, escrito por Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, es mi pedazo preferido, sobre cualquier cosa escrita por cualquier otro compositor. O podría decir (a menos que ese wasn't despeja bastantes), mi pedazo preferido en el mundo, soy el 3ro concerto, escrito por Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

In the last sentence, you said you were the 3rd concerto. Literally. "My favorite piece in the world, I am the 3rd Concerto."

[alkanite]

The 1st is my favourite, but it is conditional on tempo.  Some recordings have the 1st movement so sloooow, it drags.  Kocsis' recording with the San Francisco is fresh and exhilarating.  Not overly sentimental.  And the 1st movement cadenza is more concise than the 3rd concerto, and nearly as powerful.

[Spatula]

The 3rd concerto is my favorite piece written by any composer.

??

So you like the Beet 3, The Bart 3..the Tchai 3...the Rach 3...The Mozart 3...The Villa Lobos 3...The Mendelssohn 3???


I wish there was a Chopin 3..and  Grieg 2,3...and a Schuman 2,3...

Wow... 

May I rephrase that for you: The 3rd Concerto, written by Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, is my favorite piece, over anything written by any other composer. Or I could say (unless that wasn't clear enough), my favorite piece in the world, is the 3rd Concerto, written by Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

Is that still not clear?

Then, I will say it in Spanish:

El 3rd concerto, escrito por Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, es mi pedazo preferido, sobre cualquier cosa escrita por cualquier otro compositor. O podría decir (a menos que ese wasn't despeja bastantes), mi pedazo preferido en el mundo, soy el 3ro concerto, escrito por Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

In French:

Le 3ème concert, écrit par Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, est mon morceau préféré, au-dessus de n'importe quoi écrit par n'importe quel autre compositeur. Ou je pourrais dire (à moins que ce wasn't dégage assez), mon morceau préféré dans le monde, est le 3ème concert, écrit par Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.


In Russian:

3-им концертом, написанным Сергеи Рачюманинофф/Рачюманинов/Рачюманинош, будет моя любимейшая часть, над что-нибыдь написанным любым другим composer. Или я смог сказать (если то wasn't не освободить достаточно), моя любимейшая часть в мире, буду 3-им концертом, написанным Сергеи Рачманинофф/Рачюманинов/Рачюманинош.

And in Greek:

Το τρίτο συναυλία, που γράφεται από Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, είναι το αγαπημένο κομμάτι μου, πέρα από τίποτα που γράφεται από οποιοδήποτε άλλοδήποτε συνθέτη. Ή θα μπορούσα να πω (εκτός αν εκείνο το wasn't καθαρίζει αρκετών), το αγαπημένο κομμάτι μου στον κόσμο, είμαι το τρίτο Concerto, που γράφτηκε από Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.



I hope that I have clarified that for you.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

Iie, ni-hon go wa hanase masu kudasai, Ludwig Van Rachabji-San.     

[Spatula]

Altavista's bablefish works wonders. 




























Not!

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

El 3rd concerto, escrito por Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, es mi pedazo preferido, sobre cualquier cosa escrita por cualquier otro compositor. O podría decir (a menos que ese wasn't despeja bastantes), mi pedazo preferido en el mundo, soy el 3ro concerto, escrito por Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

In the last sentence, you said you were the 3rd concerto. Literally. "My favorite piece in the world, I am the 3rd Concerto."

Um.... Oops.   

[cheeeekan]

RACH 2 IS THE BESTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

every movement is so emotionally moving in it's own way, it's just so beautiful
and for those ppl who like rach 4... the second movement sounds like three blind mice
HAHA THREE BLIND MICE
SEE HOW *trill* THEY RUN AHAHAHA
but yes... the first movements of all the rachmaninoff concertos are sooooooooo GOOD
*breathes*
sorry to change the subject but has anyone heard quebec concerto? it's.. kinda like rachmaninoff

[rachlisztchopin]

Listen to Cziffras Rach 2, that will change anyones mind.

hm really?!?! i never knew cziffra played any rachmaninov
in fact i ddint think cziffra played any impressionistic, modern, or post-romantic...where can i buy the recording?

[rachlisztchopin]

i beleive even liszt could not transcribe solo piano versions of rach concertos because of their virtuosity....but then again he transcribed his totenaz to solo piano...hmm
as far as my fav piano concerto?
3rd definitely followed closely by the 2nd
im am currently just in love with the 3rd movement of the 3rd...its so wonderful!

[julie391]

2 and 3 edge out 1 and 4 - but all are wonderful

rach 3 is hardest obviously - and it seems to be the most cohesive and 'deep' of the 4.

[Nana_Ama]

The 3rd concerto is my favorite piece written by any composer.

??

So you like the Beet 3, The Bart 3..the Tchai 3...the Rach 3...The Mozart 3...The Villa Lobos 3...The Mendelssohn 3???


I wish there was a Chopin 3..and  Grieg 2,3...and a Schuman 2,3...

Wow... 

May I rephrase that for you: The 3rd Concerto, written by Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, is my favorite piece, over anything written by any other composer. Or I could say (unless that wasn't clear enough), my favorite piece in the world, is the 3rd Concerto, written by Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

Is that still not clear?

Then, I will say it in Spanish:

El 3rd concerto, escrito por Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, es mi pedazo preferido, sobre cualquier cosa escrita por cualquier otro compositor. O podría decir (a menos que ese wasn't despeja bastantes), mi pedazo preferido en el mundo, soy el 3ro concerto, escrito por Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.

In French:

Le 3ème concert, écrit par Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, est mon morceau préféré, au-dessus de n'importe quoi écrit par n'importe quel autre compositeur. Ou je pourrais dire (à moins que ce wasn't dégage assez), mon morceau préféré dans le monde, est le 3ème concert, écrit par Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.


In Russian:

3-им концертом, написанным Сергеи Рачюманинофф/Рачюманинов/Рачюманинош, будет моя любимейшая часть, над что-нибыдь написанным любым другим composer. Или я смог сказать (если то wasn't не освободить достаточно), моя любимейшая часть в мире, буду 3-им концертом, написанным Сергеи Рачманинофф/Рачюманинов/Рачюманинош.

And in Greek:

Το τρίτο συναυλία, που γράφεται από Sergei Rachmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow, είναι το αγαπημένο κομμάτι μου, πέρα από τίποτα που γράφεται από οποιοδήποτε άλλοδήποτε συνθέτη. Ή θα μπορούσα να πω (εκτός αν εκείνο το wasn't καθαρίζει αρκετών), το αγαπημένο κομμάτι μου στον κόσμο, είμαι το τρίτο Concerto, που γράφτηκε από Sergei Racmaninoff/Rachmaninov/Rachmaninow.



I hope that I have clarified that for you.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

Iie, ni-hon go wa hanase masu kudasai, Ludwig Van Rachabji-San.     

Ohaiyogozaimasu Spatula san.  Nihon-jin desu ka? lol

[Nana_Ama]

Which of Rach's concertos do you feel is the best piece of music?  I'm not speaking of difficulty, I strictly mean the best piece with regards to musical value, expression, and power.

My vote goes to the second concerto.

I love the second concerto too, but I can't decide which movement I love best from the concerto... Which movement is your favorite?

[Spatula]

Ohaiyogozaimasu Spatula san.  Nihon-jin desu ka? lol

Iie, Boku wa Kanada-Jin desu.  Anou, Nihon-go wa benkkyuo desu. 

[julie391]

my fave mvt of the 2nd concerto is the 1st - so powerful and profound

the 2nd is delicate, and the 3rd is more jolly to me

[rachlisztchopin]

of the 2nd concerto the 3rd movment is my fav....it is a classic

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I like all 3 movements of the 3rd Concerto.... It's just so wonderful.....

Ludwig Van Rachabji

[julie391]

I like all 3 movements of the 3rd Concerto.... It's just so wonderful.....

Ludwig Van Rachabji

of course, this concerto i feel is the most interconnected of all

contrary to many ignorant people's belief - this piece is not only 'flashy' but extremely profoundly emotional and thematically unified

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I like all 3 movements of the 3rd Concerto.... It's just so wonderful.....

Ludwig Van Rachabji

of course, this concerto i feel is the most interconnected of all

contrary to many ignorant people's belief - this piece is not only 'flashy' but extremely profoundly emotional and thematically unified

Yes, what many people fail to realize is that there is more to this piece than the difficulty.

[Awakening]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004167/qid=1092411536/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/104-4583759-9295957?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

I've never heard a better recording of ANY of his concertos from a pianistic standpoint. The orchestra could be better, but Orozco is simply the most stunning pianist I've ever heard on a recording.

Not only that, but it's only 15 bucks for two CDs. You MUST buy this, now now now now now.  

I agree about the Orozco recording.  The symphony seems perfectly fine, though I'm not such a great judge of it, because I only play the piano.  However, I can vouch for the fact that Rafael Orozco does an incredible job on the piano with all four concertos.  His articulation and clarity are great, while managing to keep the pieces at the speed they were written for.  Also, the way that the recording was produced gives the piano a lot more volume and emphasis than other Rachmaninoff concerto recordings I have heard.  Compare the opening to the first movement of the second concerto with any other you have heard, and I can nearly guarantee that in this version, the piano can be heard much more clearly.   Definitely worth buying.

[rachlisztchopin]

note I do NOT love this concerto due to its difficulty
I am just now noticing how difficult it really is

[jon]

I'm thinking about buying the cd of Orozco,but how does it compare to Argerich's recording.I would mainly buy this cd for the other three concertos but how do they compare with Argerich's performance of the 3rd.I love the way she plays with such energy and in a quicker tempo  but still manages to make it sound controlled.So do the 1st,2nd,and 4th concertos of Orozco match up to Argerich's 3rd?

[Motrax]

I'm the wrong person to be asking about Argerich... I believe her recording of the third concerto is an absolute disgrace to the world of music, so pretty much anything would be better to me.

However, I'll put it this way - Orozco never gets carried away.  Every note in every concerto is controlled, but he does maintain a great degree of spontenaiety in that the notes he plays are heartfelt, rather than practiced.  He tends to hold back in a lot of places - where Argerich recklessly plunges through the "big" spots of the piece, Orozco shapes each passage in such a way that it doesn't outshine or mimick anything else.  He has a very good concept of structure and the piece as a whole.

Orozco's tempi are roughly the same that Rachmaninoff takes.

I would definitely tell you to buy the Orozco set. The price is very good for what you're getting (the Pagannini variations are there too), and Orozco is superlative in every piece.

One thing I must add is that I've listened to a few other Orozco CDs and had mixed feelings about them.  His Liszt Sonata is rather uninspired, but his encore CD is played beautifully. His Chopin etudes aren't very well done, but I like how he plays Chopin's 2nd Sonata. So if you enjoy the concertos as much as I did, don't immediately go buying Orozco's other recordings, because there's a chance you might be very disappointed, as I was with many of them.

[xvimbi]

The Dallas Symphony Orchestra just recorded all four concertos plus the Paganini Rhapsody with Stephen Hough. The CD set gets rave reviews from a lot of critics, some even saying it is the definitive recording. I personally don't like it too much. During the live performances, I thought they were completely butchering the music, and many people felt the same way. The reason is that Hough insisted on playing the Rach2 and 3 very fast, claiming that this approach is what the composer himself had in mind. Being used to a more melancholic rendering of Rach2 and 3, many people were appalled, but some find it refreshing.

Having listened now to the CD a few times, I am warming up a bit to those renditions, but only so much. Hough is doing a terrific job throughout in terms of virtuosity (as always), but even after splicing everything together, I still think the sheer sound is sometimes drowning out a lot of the subtle passages (that is my major complaint). The Meyerson Symphony Hall in Dallas is superb in terms of acoustics, the orchestra is top-notch, and the conductor (Andrew Litton) did a great job in holding everything together. Litton and Hough apparently had quite some yelling matches concerning the interpretation of the concertos (according to Litton), with Hough winning over Litton in almost all accounts (Litton usually lets the soloists do whatever they want). There are the usual little quibbles, such as the timpani are a bit to loud, or the trumpets needed more this or that, etc. but overall, it is indeed a great job.

However, it won't be to everybody's liking, that is for sure. Also, Rach4 is not as convincing overall as the others, most likely because Hough doesn't like this particular concerto very much.

For all Rachmaninoff fans, this is a set to get!

[julie391]

he actually spent more time on rach4 than the others, so thats a surprise.