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Topic: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1  (Read 5074 times)

Offline franz_

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Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
on: April 24, 2011, 07:21:06 PM
Which concerto is/was for you the hardest to learn? Particulary technically spoken?
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Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 07:25:02 AM
again... POLLS! And everyone here is so sick of "WHich one is the most difficult?!" THERE ISN'T ONE TECHNIQUE THAT IS EASIER FOR EVERYONE! GOD!
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Offline franz_

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 11:57:47 AM
ow.. mmm.  Yes, I see...

but, which one is the most difficult?


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Currently learing:
- Chopin: Ballade No.3
- Scriabin: Etude Op. 8 No. 2
- Rachmaninoff: Etude Op. 33 No. 6
- Bach: P&F No 21 WTC I

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 01:23:02 PM
GAH! Some would say Chopin, and some would say Tchai! Have a look at only a few "Most difficult" and you'll see that there never is one answer! FFS!
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Offline franz_

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
oh common, I just plan to play one of those 2 concerti, and I ask for some advice and experience for the people who played it. Of course there isn't a definition of difficulty or an official ranking. Luckely.
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Currently learing:
- Chopin: Ballade No.3
- Scriabin: Etude Op. 8 No. 2
- Rachmaninoff: Etude Op. 33 No. 6
- Bach: P&F No 21 WTC I

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 05:30:37 PM
What is most difficult - algebra och geography?
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Offline djealnla

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 06:21:36 PM
The Tchaikovsky by far.
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Offline orangesodaking

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 03:09:31 AM
Quote from: franz_ on April 25, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
oh common, I just plan to play one of those 2 concerti, and I ask for some advice and experience for the people who played it. Of course there isn't a definition of difficulty or an official ranking. Luckely.


I recommend that you play the Chopin, regardless of which one is more difficult.
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Offline franz_

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 01:00:47 PM
Quote from: pianisten1989 on April 25, 2011, 05:30:37 PM
What is most difficult - algebra och geography?
algebra.
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Currently learing:
- Chopin: Ballade No.3
- Scriabin: Etude Op. 8 No. 2
- Rachmaninoff: Etude Op. 33 No. 6
- Bach: P&F No 21 WTC I

Offline bbush

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 02:19:59 PM
Y'know, pianisten1989 and other old-time members who've seen it all before:  if you're bored with a topic, you don't have to spread your negativity all over the Forum about it; you can just ignore it!

That would be SO much nicer for the rest of us!  (And I say this with recognition that there ARE many useful things you have said about topics that interest you, that is, I'm not trying to shut you down completely.)

Thanks,
Bruce
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 10:31:37 PM
Quote from: bbush on April 26, 2011, 02:19:59 PM
Y'know, pianisten1989 and other old-time members who've seen it all before:  if you're bored with a topic, you don't have to spread your negativity all over the Forum about it; you can just ignore it!

Y'know, you and other newbies who haven't been on her as long as we have: you don't seem to know how mundane it is to see the same type of topics repeately appear on a weekly basis, you don't seem to realise just how annoying it is. That's just what we all want to see - 100 topics a day asking which piece is harder...

Give me a break.

I say - create a single thread for asking questions like this and sticking it at the top, instead of posting a new topic every time, because all I've seen for the last several months is more and more topics of:

Which is harder... Which is more difficult... Which is easier...     a or b

Seriously - enough is enough.
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Offline bbush

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 10:49:58 PM
Well, obviously people want to ask each other about this stuff, which is why it's always coming up.  And I don't agree with statements that imply - or come right out and say - it's the stupidest thing to talk about, has no value, is totally subjective, etc. (At my level, I need some help determining what I can handle and what may be just too overwhelming to take on.)  Plus, I'm still open to hearing about others' experience in these matters.

So, maybe the thing for you to do is ask the moderators to add a Polls section to the Repertoire and/or Performance section, just as they have to the Miscellaneous section.  However, especially for us newer members, navigating around to find and even see all the posting options is not totally clear or easy, and so you're still going to get stuff like this that bores you (not to mention the fact that some of us want more than just a one-word vote on questions like this topic).

Again, why did you not just ignore this?  You could certainly tell what's what from what the original poster asked, or even from the title of this post, no?  Why did you bother to waste your time writing a complaint about something that you say does not interest you? 
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #12 on: April 27, 2011, 02:52:44 AM
Quote from: bbush on April 26, 2011, 10:49:58 PM
You could certainly tell what's what ...///... from the title of this post, no? 

No... you couldn't. They could have been asking for Fingering - or which one seems overplayed for Piano Competitions, or which one is easier for a second pianist to play the orchestral reduction...

or... I don't know - A HUNDRED DIFFERENT THINGS!!!

So there's a reason for people complaining bbush - and you haven't been on here as long as pianisten or myself, so try to get a grip on things first before you throw out the insults.
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Offline orangesodaking

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #13 on: April 27, 2011, 04:04:25 AM
Well, the way he asked it is actually a little more valid, I think. He asked which is or was the hardest for us to learn, not just which one we think is the hardest. If one of us learned both, or even just one of them, we could offer valid insights and our experiences.

Here is mine, and it may not be quite as valid: I haven't learned either, but I started learning the Tchaikovsky, in the "hard" parts, like the octaves in 1st and 3rd movements, some of the arpeggio things, and that cadenza near the end of the first movement... It was tricky, but I was able to work it up no problem. The thing is that it all just felt like empty virtuosity; nothing really special.

I don't know about how hard Chopin 1 is, but I personally think it's a better piece of music and more worth your time. I think it has less octaves and rapid chords than the Tchaikovsky, and that is often a stumbling block for many pianists still in the stage of developing well-rounded virtuosity.
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Offline lorditachijr

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #14 on: April 27, 2011, 04:38:17 AM
I know both of these concertos pretty well, and I would have to say the Tchaikovsky is more difficult. The Chopin fits better under the fingers and more complies to pianists' strengths and weaknesses. The Tchaikovsky requires more virtuosity in general. Of course all of this is in my opinion and based on my own strengths and weaknesses as a pianist. Really I don't think I'd put the Chopin 1 on the same level as Tchaikovsky 1 technically speaking. I prefer the Tchaikovsky purely because the orchestra is a lot more involved in the structure of the piece, whereas the Chopin is really more about the soloist's playing with much simpler orchestral involvement. They are both very difficult works, and I commend you on making it to either of them in your studies.

Good luck!
John
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Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #15 on: April 27, 2011, 06:43:56 AM
Y'know, bbush:
1. there is a "search"-funktion, with which you can search the entire forum.
2. It would be much nicer for ur older members if you new ones would create a discussion that anyone except you and your mum gives a sh*t about.
3. This kind of topics belongs in the poll-section, not in the repertoire (which we've told the author a few times)
4. To ask "Which is more difficult" is one of the worst question there is. Very few people have got the exactly same stregths and weaknesses (which you would find out yourself if you use the search-funtion see 1.)
5. This guy have like 500 posts. He can't be counted as a noob anymore. I think most people can live with it if there is some guys first post. Then we can assume he haven't seen the (see 1.), but not when he's got 500 posts. That either means he doesn't give a sh*t about anything or that he is really ignorant. I don't care very much about any of them...
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #16 on: April 27, 2011, 07:23:52 AM
Quote from: bbush on April 26, 2011, 10:49:58 PM

Again, why did you not just ignore this? 

Speaking for myself this is rather difficult, although I have managed to do so until now.

Thal
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Offline bbush

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #17 on: April 27, 2011, 06:28:34 PM
OK, well, I'll give up after this one more try to explain why I complained about the old-timers' complaints that this post topic was just SO boring/annoying, they had to complain:

1. While this type of question/topic may not be appropriate for the Repetoire section, it requires far more than a single-word vote, which is what a poll implies.  You can see that this is true (whether or not you like reading about it) by looking at the intelligent conversation around the topic that's left after you take away the complaints and my complaining about the complaining.

2. I hope we would ALL agree that on an open piano forum, with many people of vastly different skill levels and interests, there ought to be somewhere for this type of topic to be discussed.

3.. If the concept of a community of artists who voluntarily come together to express their opinions and share their experiences and knowledge appeals to you (and I assume it does because you're here!), then ought not that community be tolerant and encouraging of the discourse, rather than trying so hard to shut down those aspects of it that bore some of us?

That's really all I was getting at when I asked why anyone bothered to write discouraging words, rather than just ignore the topic they didn't find interesting.

Bruce
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Tchaikovsky 1 - Chopin 1
Reply #18 on: April 27, 2011, 10:39:43 PM
Quote from: bbush on April 27, 2011, 06:28:34 PM
1. While this type of question/topic may not be appropriate for the Repetoire section, it requires far more than a single-word vote, which is what a poll implies. 

And I'm going to try and explain something to you one more time. You cannot, REPEAT CANNOT really rank pieces of music in order of difficulty. Some people may find some pieces easier than others, and it's up to each individuals abilities to determine that.

Asking which is easier - Tchaikovsky 1 or Chopin 1 is all relatively based on opinion... which is pretty stupid to ask, because what may be easier for me, could be much more difficult for Franz.

Quote from: bbush on April 27, 2011, 06:28:34 PM
2. I hope we would ALL agree that on an open piano forum, with many people of vastly different skill levels and interests, there ought to be somewhere for this type of topic to be discussed.

Not when there's hundreds of repeated posts asking which piece is easier - and as I said, that's pretty much different for each person.

Quote from: bbush on April 27, 2011, 06:28:34 PM
3.. If the concept of a community of artists who voluntarily come together to express their opinions and share their experiences and knowledge appeals to you (and I assume it does because you're here!), then ought not that community be tolerant and encouraging of the discourse, rather than trying so hard to shut down those aspects of it that bore some of us?

We are tolerant... it's just in the past year - we've seen this page start to really slide down - idiotic users using this forum as an advertising board, users who spam, users who post plagiarised performances, and it seems to be growing.

Maybe for once, instead of whinging about it - you'd like to see if from some of the... (how did you put it?) 'old-timers' point of view???
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