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Topic: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR  (Read 5037 times)

Offline LiszTMaN

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HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
on: August 13, 2004, 02:24:46 AM
Just wanted to know what you thought of these two music giants.

Which sonata do you think is more technically challenging and musically challenging?

In my opinion SONATA IN B MINOR WINS FOR INTERPRETATION AND MUSCIAL

HAMMERKLAVIER WINS FOR TECHNIQUE

Offline Rach3

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #1 on: August 13, 2004, 07:16:22 AM
No, I'd say Hammerklavier is the more difficult of the two on all counts. It's hard to compare though, they're very different sonatas. Hammerklavier is, among other things, much longer, has an impossibly difficult fugue, and an intense 17-minute  adagio.
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
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Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #2 on: August 13, 2004, 10:43:50 PM
Both of these works are highly demanding, but I would agree that the Hammerklavier is the more difficult in each of those categories.

Offline DarkWind

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #3 on: August 14, 2004, 12:18:55 AM
THEY ARE BOTH DIFFICULT AND PLEASE STOP USING CAPITAL LETTERS SO MUCH FOR TITLES OK THANKS.

Offline stefano

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #4 on: October 29, 2004, 07:57:09 PM
Honestly i think Hammerklavier is boring.  I dont understand why people love it so much, they think they have to.  The sonata in b minor is a supurb sonata and is much more difficult,but i can actually stay awake when I here it. 

Offline kempff

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #5 on: October 30, 2004, 12:38:07 PM
Well, i think the other way around. i like Hammerklavier more than the bminor sonata. It's more demanding musically, IMO.
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Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #6 on: October 30, 2004, 04:19:16 PM
sonata in b min. bored me tremendously. I just don't like it. hammerklavier on the other hand is quite nice.

boliver

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #7 on: October 31, 2004, 08:51:03 PM
Hammer's last movement was the only thing that interested me...the rest was lullaby music to me....

Offline Brian Healey

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #8 on: November 02, 2004, 07:25:50 AM
My $0.02...........

I think the Hammerklavier is techincally more difficult, but from a listener's standpoint, I enjoy hearing the Sonata in B minor much more.

Offline presto agitato

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #9 on: November 05, 2004, 05:51:46 AM
As a matter of fact Liszt wrote his Sonata in B minor inspired in Beethovens Hammerklavier.

The Hammerklavier Sonata is musically overated IMO. I prefer Liszts B minor Sonata.

In 19th century there were only five pianist who were able to play the "Hammeklavier":

Liszt
Mendelssohn
Clara Schumann
Saint-Saens
Moscheles

I read that Liszt spent 8 hours each day during one month for learning this sonata.

"HammerKlavier" is the most difficult piano work Beethoven wrote, however is also one of Beethovens most boring works.
The masterpiece tell the performer what to do, and not the performer telling the piece what it should be like, or the cocomposer what he ought to have composed.

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Offline super_ardua

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #10 on: November 05, 2004, 12:23:29 PM
Strangely enough,  every virtuoso pianist nowadays has had a performance or recording of it.
We must do,  we shall do!!!

Offline Regulus Medtner

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #11 on: November 16, 2004, 11:51:08 AM
General hint... none of these two works is famous, loved and revered so much without a reason. Would anyone seriously expect that such formidable, deeply-felt and complex works  should reveal themselves readily and on first hearing? Time and acquaintance works miracles in the appreciation and love of music.

Offline m

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #12 on: November 16, 2004, 05:55:13 PM
As a matter of fact Liszt wrote his Sonata in B minor inspired in Beethovens Hammerklavier.

The Hammerklavier Sonata is musically overated IMO...

"HammerKlavier" is the most difficult piano work Beethoven wrote, however is also one of Beethovens most boring works.


That's not "Hammerklavier"s problem.
IMO, only one piece can be compared to HammerKlavier--Diabelli Variations. Amazing to think that in 21 century you can still hear that such a Giant reduced to one description--"boring" ... or else people just want to be "smart" and show that they "understand"...
IMO, ever since this two works were created, nothing more magnificient was written for piano.
But on the other hand, for somebody greatness might be boring.

Oh yeah, I could not understand whether "B minor" was refered to Liszt, Chopin, or something else, but I guess I've already expressed my opinion.

Offline rachlisztchopin

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #13 on: November 18, 2004, 10:04:38 PM
I liked neither of these two works after the first listening...must have been too complex for my ear...that has to be why people are so into popular music these days...simple music for the simple ear...they listen to more into depth classical music (not mozarts and beethovens simple stuff like fur elise and sonate in C major by mozart (k545 i believe)) and say "hey that sux....is too long and boring or even too "relaxing" (which i believe most good classical music isnt relaxing)...in other words its trash" and end up hating classical music. now after i gave sonata in b minor a chance and listened to it for 2 or 3 more times i ended up loving it...however i still havent given hammerklavier a chance....only listend to it once

Offline super_ardua

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #14 on: November 19, 2004, 05:37:47 PM
on a tangent,  liszt's "Ad nos, ad...." is far from relaxing.
We must do,  we shall do!!!

Offline presto agitato

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #15 on: November 21, 2004, 04:57:27 AM
As a matter of fact Liszt wrote his Sonata in B minor inspired in Beethovens Hammerklavier.

The Hammerklavier Sonata is musically overated IMO...

"HammerKlavier" is the most difficult piano work Beethoven wrote, however is also one of Beethovens most boring works.


That's not "Hammerklavier"s problem.
IMO, only one piece can be compared to HammerKlavier--Diabelli Variations. Amazing to think that in 21 century you can still hear that such a Giant reduced to one description--"boring" ... or else people just want to be "smart" and show that they "understand"...
IMO, ever since this two works were created, nothing more magnificient was written for piano.
But on the other hand, for somebody greatness might be boring.

Oh yeah, I could not understand whether "B minor" was refered to Liszt, Chopin, or something else, but I guess I've already expressed my opinion.

Well, For me Pathetique Sonata "says" more than the HammerKlavier and its 20 minutes shorter.

I dont believe that you have to write long sonatas to be magnificient works.
The masterpiece tell the performer what to do, and not the performer telling the piece what it should be like, or the cocomposer what he ought to have composed.

--Alfred Brendel--

Offline Ludwig Van Rachabji

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #16 on: November 21, 2004, 06:50:16 AM
I'm not that crazy about the Hammerklavier. I like the 1st movement a lot, but the second movement bores me, the third is too long, and the fugue..... is just plain weird. Please don't jump all over me, but I always wonder what Beethoven was on when he wrote that fugue. For instance, right before it goes into the D Major part where you have those short dissonant trills jumping up and down. There are several other parts, but it's almost 2:00, and I'm too tired to think of them.

Ludwig Van Rachabji
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Offline Ludwig Van Rachabji

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #17 on: November 21, 2004, 06:52:05 AM
Oh, and the Hammerklavier is much harder.

Ludwig Van Rachabji
Music... can name the unnameable and communicate the unknowable. Leonard Bernstein

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #18 on: January 09, 2005, 12:31:46 AM
I find that one must get into a certain state of mind when listening to longer, more intense works like the Hammerklavier.  You must let things unfold as they come, and also try to interrelate them with things that have come before.  This means that such pieces are also challenging for the listener at first.  Once, however, they've invested the work into understanding such pieces of music, they are wonderful listening; and I must say not boring at all.

I just wish to comment here that the climax of the adagio in op. 106 is, for me, one of the most intense moments in music I know of-I would learn this piece just to be able to play that moment.

Offline anda

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Re: HAMMERKLAVIER vs. SONATA IN B MINOR
Reply #19 on: January 09, 2005, 08:16:53 PM
both very difficult, extremelly complex works.

i'd say it's somewhat easier to play the h moll sonata - somehow "it lets itself be playd", the music carries you through much more than hammerklavier does.

but that's just a "listened-to" based opinion, i never played hammerklavier.
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