Help needed: voice leading.

[countrymath]

This is an exercise from Walter Priston's harmony

The exercise tells you to create a 4 part harmony to the basses given, and use "chords from the 6th" (first inversion chords) where its possible.

I did it, but its sounding awfull.

What did I do wrong?

[floydcramerfan]

I would like to help you, but you have a picture rather than an audio, so I can't hear it.

[lelle]

I threw together some advice from what I remember from my composition lessons a couple of years ago. Other members please correct me if I'm mistaken on some things . I hope you get what I mean, given that the image is a bit hard to read with the colours and text and stuff. Feel free to ask if anything is unclear

[countrymath]

I threw together some advice from what I remember from my composition lessons a couple of years ago. Other members please correct me if I'm mistaken on some things . I hope you get what I mean, given that the image is a bit hard to read with the colours and text and stuff. Feel free to ask if anything is unclear

Wooooo

So much colors! looks like a Littletune drawing from school.

(she will probably kill me when she reads this)

[countrymath]

Thank you for your tips!

I'll remake the exercise. And this  time I'll post an audio clip! (sorry Jessie  )

[countrymath]

What about now?

[floydcramerfan]

Yeah, it sounded better.  Nice keyboard, btw.

[bleicher]

Hi Countrymath,

You're getting there but there are still quite a few parallel 5ths and octaves in the second passage which you need to correct:

Parallel octaves between soprano and alto bar 1 to 2 (I know the alto part moves down to d in between but it still counts I'm afraid)
Parallel octaves between tenor and bass bar 4 to 5 (I know you've swapped round the parts to avoid this but it doesn't work because both parts have very awkward leaps). Also parallel 5ths between the tenor/bass parts and the alto part in the same place
Parallel octaves and fifths between soprano, alto and tenor in bar 6 beats 3-4.

You also need to avoid doubling the third of the chord. Doubled thirds are not completely forbidden but if you absolutely have to double a third you need to approach and leave them in contrary motion. Chords with doubled thirds are bar 1 beats 1 and 3, bar 3 beats 1 and 2, bar 6 beat 1 and bar 7 beats 1 and 2.

I hope this helps. At the moment it seems as though there are a million things to correct and as soon as you correct one bit you cause a problem elsewhere. But trust me, it does get easier! Best of luck.

Natalie

[countrymath]

Hi Countrymath,

You're getting there but there are still quite a few parallel 5ths and octaves in the second passage which you need to correct:

Parallel octaves between soprano and alto bar 1 to 2 (I know the alto part moves down to d in between but it still counts I'm afraid)
Parallel octaves between tenor and bass bar 4 to 5 (I know you've swapped round the parts to avoid this but it doesn't work because both parts have very awkward leaps). Also parallel 5ths between the tenor/bass parts and the alto part in the same place
Parallel octaves and fifths between soprano, alto and tenor in bar 6 beats 3-4.

You also need to avoid doubling the third of the chord. Doubled thirds are not completely forbidden but if you absolutely have to double a third you need to approach and leave them in contrary motion. Chords with doubled thirds are bar 1 beats 1 and 3, bar 3 beats 1 and 2, bar 6 beat 1 and bar 7 beats 1 and 2.

I hope this helps. At the moment it seems as though there are a million things to correct and as soon as you correct one bit you cause a problem elsewhere. But trust me, it does get easier! Best of luck.

Natalie

Thanks. I doubled the thirds because its written on the book to do it :p

Bar six is taking my head off.

Parallel octaves between soprano and alto bar 1 to 2 (I know the alto part moves down to d in between but it still counts I'm afraid)

I see...i tought I could avoid it moving the F# on alto to a D on beat 2

Parallel octaves between tenor and bass bar 4 to 5 (I know you've swapped round the parts to avoid this but it doesn't work because both parts have very awkward leaps

I didn't got this.

Also parallel 5ths between the tenor/bass parts and the alto part in the same place

You mean a parellel 5th between bass and alto? Thats actually a 12th. Should I avoid it too? There's no other where I can put a F# on that chord.

Parallel octaves and fifths between soprano, alto and tenor in bar 6 beats 3-4.

Now I noticed it. Also, all voices are going up.

I'll keep the doubled thirds as and advice for my next exercises. It will take a hell to correct everything.

The new2 files are atacched.

There is a parallel fifth between the bass and tenor on bar 6 beat 4 and bar 7 beat 1, and also all the voices are going up, but i couldn't find a way to avoid it.

[bleicher]

Oops - I was wrong about the parallel octaves between the tenor and bass going from bar 4 to bar 5; it's a parallel 5th (12th) between the alto and the bass.

[countrymath]

Oops - I was wrong about the parallel octaves between the tenor and bass going from bar 4 to bar 5; it's a parallel 5th (12th) between the alto and the bass.

So I can't have a parellel 12th too?

[bleicher]

That's right, parallel 12ths are out too. Sorry about that!

[lelle]

A good rule to remember is that paralell 4ths, 5ths, 7ths and octaves (and anything else that sounds dissonant really) are to be avoided, at any "distance" between voices (say a paralell 5th is the same as a paralell 12th and so on)

A good way to check that there are no paralells is to play only two voices at the same time until you have checked every combination, bass and tenor, bass and alto, bass and soprano, tenor and alto, tenor and soprano, and so on

[piano_channeller]

I'm a bit confused by the exercise. Were you just given the bass line and nothing else? If so then you might want to think about creating a soprano part that moves in crotchets (quarter notes) in line with the bass part. I think this would give you more voice leading options. The bars with the whole notes in the soprano and just one chord underneath are a little static. Just a thought.

[countrymath]

I'm a bit confused by the exercise. Were you just given the bass line and nothing else? If so then you might want to think about creating a soprano part that moves in crotchets (quarter notes) in line with the bass part. I think this would give you more voice leading options. The bars with the whole notes in the soprano and just one chord underneath are a little static. Just a thought.

Yes, just the bass was given.

My purpose was to move the voices the less I could, thats why i used the whole notes.

I'll move to the next exercise now.

Thanks all for the replies

[floydcramerfan]

Maybe the quarter notes would sound better.  The whole notes kind of sound like something they would play at a straightie funeral or very proper church service.  I'm not criticizing your playing by the way.  I know that's what those exercises sound like.  I just am not crazy about four-part piano playing.  I used to try to liven up my voice leading exercises back in the day when I was in music theory, but it never really worked, lol. 

[countrymath]

What about this one?

Its in a minor key now.

I got very confused after bar 5, so maybe there are mistakes there

[bachbrahmsschubert]

What about this one?

Its in a minor key now.

I got very confused after bar 5, so maybe there are mistakes there

Hi, Countrymath!

Here are some things that are wrong/could be better with your example; 4 part harmony can be very tricky, but don't get discouraged!

Generally speaking, you want to avoid leaps if possible. This is not a necessity as you will OFTEN times be forced to leap, but if it's at all possible to have a stepwise melody in the soprano, then do so; always watch for parallel fifths and octaves. For example: in the first three chords, notice the bass line. I-V6-I is a very typical opening progression for figured bass harmony, and it's a perfect example on proper voice leading. G down to F# back up to G - stepwise motion. So it's best that the soprano mimics this in contrary motion. Ex. G up to A back down to G.

First beat, 3rd measure - your chord is incorrect. A iv6 in g minor is a c minor/E flat, however you have a B flat in the tenor. You can't move the tenor D in the third beat of measure 2 up to E flat or down to to C because you will have parallel octaves. V to iv6 is a very weak progression in any key, but I don't know how much theory you've learned, so if you haven't learned any other chord that would work better with an E flat in the bass, find a way to make the iv6 work.

It's always best to keep the soprano moving unless you have some really interesting chord progressions. You won't get to those for awhile, so always try to keep the soprano in motion (contrary motion is always best and that will avoid the majority of parallel 5ths and octaves).

First beat 6th measure, even if you have the leading tone as both the alto and tenor, it is still considered doubling the leading tone and is a major no-no. On top of that, the F sharp in the tenor is resolving down to an E flat which is an Augmented 2nd interval; that is an example of poor voice leading and it will sound terrible. As a side note, if your leading tone is in an inner voice (alto or tenor) it does not have to resolve up to the G.

Though it is perfectly acceptable for your final cadence to end on the 3rd of the tonic chord, if it's possible to end on the tonic itself, then do that instead. It's much more powerful of a cadence.

I hope this helps and I hope I didn't confuse you any further. Please feel free to ask more questions if you don't understand something. Also, if someone ever disagrees with anything I say, I openly welcome debates!

[countrymath]

Thank you.

I will correct this right now.

[countrymath]

Damn it

I dont know what to do :S

[countrymath]

This is a bit different.

The exercise gives you the bass and the chords, so I just need to write the harmony.


I tried to pay atention to all the advices you gave.

[countrymath]

This is on Bb

Some things i noticed:

-Bar 2/3: Paralel octave between soprano and tenor
-bar 3: paralel octave between bass and alto
-Bar  6/7: Paralel octave between bass and soprano

Does this really need to be avoided? I can't find a away to avoid it.

[countrymath]

Ok, Im now studying another harmony book, way better then walter priston's

This is the first exerpt (to hell this word) from bach's chorale (i dont know wich one). I made a reduction from the book and then a re harmonization. I put the bass one octave down and changed the inner parts.

It has some hidden fifths on the beginning, but combined with the bass motion and the straight soprano line it got a good effect

The first part is the reduction, and then the harmonization

[bleicher]

That one's great, much better, well done!

[countrymath]

That one's great, much better, well done!

Thank you! It means a lot to me.

[countrymath]

Btw, I feel that studying walter priston's without a teacher is a hell. It is a good book, but it doenst go deeply on topics. This other books explains EVERYTHING. The autor starts with the basic of chord building, then he introduces the I-V-I progression, gives a lot of exercises, then he introduces the "sixth chords" (I-V6-I, I-I6-V, etc), then the dominant. I'm on chapter 7 of 32 XD

[bleicher]

Sounds good! What is the book called?

[countrymath]

https://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Voice-Leading-Edward-Aldwell/dp/0495189758/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309605819&sr=8-1

This is the 4th edition. I have the 3rd