Pedal and fingering with Frédéric CHOPIN: Waltz in A minor (Op. Posth.) [v01]

[goodtone]

Hi, I'm around about the grade III level of ability and self taught. I have the ABRSM book of some of Chopins "easier pieces ".  I noticed that there are no pedal marks displayed but listening  versions on youtube I found the pedal to be used. I would think the piece would be quite choppy without the use of the pedal. Just wondering what your thoughts are? Also, the RH fingering given uses 1,2,1 in a couple of phrases and I was finding it quite awkward using a TU approach do a 1,2,1 (Index finger seems to get in the way, unlike a 1,3,1 movement) and a TO seemed to be more natural for this. I'm self taught and am going through the John Thompson, Grade III at the moment but have so far not come across using a 1,2,1 movement which felt a bit awkward  ?

thanks, Shaun

[rmbarbosa]

Basically, you may apply secondary pedal with the first note of each bar, e.g. you must lift the pedal when you play de first note and immediatly down. Its very important to lift when ther`s a change of tonality, you see?
But it`s very important to learn the use of pedals and you may wish to read a little book about pedal techniques by Teresa Carreno. You may free download it.
Best wishes
Rui

[goodtone]

thanks, I know how to use the pedal, but that doesn't really address my specific question.

[keyboardclass]

In general use it in Chopin just to join the bass to the chord.  His other major use is for forte which I don't think applies here.

[lelle]

Hi, I'm around about the grade III level of ability and self taught. I have the ABRSM book of some of Chopins "easier pieces ".  I noticed that there are no pedal marks displayed but listening  versions on youtube I found the pedal to be used. I would think the piece would be quite choppy without the use of the pedal. Just wondering what your thoughts are? Also, the RH fingering given uses 1,2,1 in a couple of phrases and I was finding it quite awkward using a TU approach do a 1,2,1 (Index finger seems to get in the way, unlike a 1,3,1 movement) and a TO seemed to be more natural for this. I'm self taught and am going through the John Thompson, Grade III at the moment but have so far not come across using a 1,2,1 movement which felt a bit awkward  ?

thanks, Shaun

As a rule of thumb in romantic music, sections that have no pedal marks are to be pedaled at your own discretion. Knowing when to and when not to pedal is much up to taste and experience.

[goodtone]

great, thanks for the replies. The  reason I asked is that the book gives detailed pedal marks for most of the other pieces, so I was surprised that there were no marking for this particular piece. The picture I'm getting is that mostly the use of the  pedal comes down to personal taste and interpretation a lot of the time. I suppose it also depends on how stricly you want to stick to the composers intentions for the piece. I wonder, did Chopin indicate pedal marks in his original manuscripts or are these markings that have been added by various editors over time ?

[lelle]

great, thanks for the replies. The  reason I asked is that the book gives detailed pedal marks for most of the other pieces, so I was surprised that there were no marking for this particular piece. The picture I'm getting is that mostly the use of the  pedal comes down to personal taste and interpretation a lot of the time. I suppose it also depends on how stricly you want to stick to the composers intentions for the piece. I wonder, did Chopin indicate pedal marks in his original manuscripts or are these markings that have been added by various editors over time ?

Editors can sometimes add pedal marks if they think a section should be pedaled a certain way, but not even the editors' additions will account for all the pedal you will be using and when to change it.

However, if you have an Urtext edition of Chopin it usually means it is edited from his original score and/or the first editions after Chopin's corrections, including his original pedal marks.

Keep in mind, though, that the pedal was less "effective" in Chopins time, ie the notes didn't resonate as long, so it will usually not be possible to pedal as Chopin intended on a modern piano anyway. Passages will sound too blurry, etc. You'll have to change the pedal several times rather than holding it for the duration Chopin indicated in many cases.

[keyboardclass]

I wonder, did Chopin indicate pedal marks in his original manuscripts or are these markings that have been added by various editors over time ?

He often did.  Check out the first editions at U of Chicago, they're mostly Chopin's marks.  I may have more info on your waltz at home, I'll check when I get there.  If it's the one he wrote for his fiance I have a copy of the manuscript on my home computer.

[goodtone]

that's interesting, I'll have to check out the first editions at U Chicago. thanks for all the replies

[keyboardclass]

If it's the one that starts E AB C C (1847) then there's no pedaling marked - I've got the latest scholarly edition.  Have more pedal in the middle section.  A student of mine did it last year for his grade 5.