Starting over as a beginner, but serious about a career

[thompson_321]

I have decided that I want to be a concert pianist. I am starting again as a beginner, as I want know that I must commit all my efforts to this. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I should start regarding technique, repertoire, instruments etc?

[the_duck]

I don't mean to deter you, but have you thought about exactly WHY you want to be a concert pianist? Have you investigated the business side of being a concert pianist? Have you spoken to any concert pianists about what a life of performing, touring, recording actually involves? As a "beginner" as you put it, you are probably not best placed to judge whether that would suit you. Plus, the contacts, publicity, luck etc that you will need in order to have any success are just as important, if not moreso, than the talent you have, which, as a beginner, is still yet to be realized.

HOWEVER

If your true goal is to play the piano to a high level, and enjoy the vast and varied repertoire available, and yes, perhaps play some concerts in the future, then I would say absolutely go for it! There are a number of great resources here on piano street. Here are some links to get you started https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9159.0.html

Edd

[thompson_321]

I don't mean to deter you, but have you thought about exactly WHY you want to be a concert pianist? Have you investigated the business side of being a concert pianist? Have you spoken to any concert pianists about what a life of performing, touring, recording actually involves? As a "beginner" as you put it, you are probably not best placed to judge whether that would suit you. Plus, the contacts, publicity, luck etc that you will need in order to have any success are just as important, if not moreso, than the talent you have, which, as a beginner, is still yet to be realized.

HOWEVER

If your true goal is to play the piano to a high level, and enjoy the vast and varied repertoire available, and yes, perhaps play some concerts in the future, then I would say absolutely go for it! There are a number of great resources here on piano street. Here are some links to get you started https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9159.0.html

Edd

I have a gift, so I don't think I need to ask anything. However, thanks for the link in your second paragraph.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

What do you expect to hear? You're a "beginner" as you put it, and want to become a concert pianist. Unless you're 4-6 years old with incredible talent and time to learn or a mad musical genius, your chances are slim to none. Even those that are exceptionally gifted musicians don't make it in regards to becoming a solo performer. That's the reality of the business, but that's not what you want to hear. You want to blindly dive into a profession you clearly know nothing about simply because you love music.  You want people to tell you to study a certain amount of repertoire and technique exercises like there's a secret recipe to becoming an elite pianist. I admire your passion, but that is an incredibly ignorant thought process.

Also, as an adult, which I believe you are, it's all about networking. The way you responded to the first poster is evidence enough to me you have no chance. Someone gave you good advice and you threw it back in their face. Good luck.

[thompson_321]

What do you expect to hear? You're a "beginner" as you put it, and want to become a concert pianist. Unless you're 4-6 years old with incredible talent and time to learn or a mad musical genius, your chances are slim to none. Even those that are exceptionally gifted musicians don't make it in regards to becoming a solo performer. That's the reality of the business, but that's not what you want to hear. You want to blindly dive into a profession you clearly know nothing about simply because you love music.  You want people to tell you to study a certain amount of repertoire and technique exercises like there's a secret recipe to becoming an elite pianist. I admire your passion, but that is an incredibly ignorant thought process.

Also, as an adult, which I believe you are, it's all about networking. The way you responded to the first poster is evidence enough to me you have no chance. Someone gave you good advice and you threw it back in their face. Good luck.

If you think I'm going to fall into your manipulative little trap again, you can think again. If you want to give me ridiculous answers, don't bother. I'll get my answers elsewhere ok?

[fleetfingers]

Why don't you take an 8-hour train ride to London and take classes with that really great teacher you've always wanted to study with? He'll know what to do. 

[pianoman53]

I've looked through your last posts, and it seems like you've asked this question loads of times, and as soon as someone says something you don't want to hear, you basically call them idiots, and that you wont listen.

And what do you want us to answer? Start with something that you can play well, and also play something you will learn from. As technique, do some fundamental things, like relaxing excercises...
You've said that you're going to begin at some school in GB. Why not ask your teacher? If you are serious about this, the worst thing you can do is to ask random people on the internet... I mean, we don't know anything about you. At least post some recordings...

[thompson_321]

I've looked through your last posts, and it seems like you've asked this question loads of times, and as soon as someone says something you don't want to hear, you basically call them idiots, and that you wont listen.

And what do you want us to answer? Start with something that you can play well, and also play something you will learn from. As technique, do some fundamental things, like relaxing excercises...
You've said that you're going to begin at some school in GB. Why not ask your teacher? If you are serious about this, the worst thing you can do is to ask random people on the internet... I mean, we don't know anything about you. At least post some recordings...

I am starting from the beginning, and would like anyone to suggest simple pieces I can start with. I am an adult, so I also do not want to hang around. I will be having tuition in September, and then I am planning to do an undergraduate course at college when I am ready. It's like starting all over again, but I already have my a levels and a music degree behind me, so hopefully this will help me move faster. I'm not good enough to post recordings yet.

[thompson_321]

Why don't you take an 8-hour train ride to London and take classes with that really great teacher you've always wanted to study with? He'll know what to do. 

I don't have enough money or a good enough piano to do that.

[pianoman53]

I hate to destroy your hope, but... You've said that you are quite old, and you're starting all over again, and you're not good enough to post anything? Seems difficult to become a professional concert pianist. I mean, how can you have a gift if you aren't good enough for a recording? And you need help picking easy pieces?

Uhm... Mozart kv 545, Sinfonias by Bach, Haydn sonatas are easy, but you wont become a concert pianist by starting playing bach sinfonias when you're 30...

[hastur]

I share your ambitions, to go pro. And I too, am starting quite from the beginning. I believe that with high enough ambitions and good discipline you can achieve pretty much anything as long as you are completely willing to do the needed sacrifices without looking back. The reality is that you have many years of practice to catch up on, the good news is that your practice is probably more efficient than that of a 4-6 year old, so you should be able to achieve the basics and hop on to the more fun stuff a lot faster.

If you are serious about it and got the courage to follow your dreams, I say; GO FOR IT!

As James Dean said; "Live as if you'll die today, dream as if you'll live forever."

[healdie]

Ok it seems that you are too old to become a concert pianist but that's not the only job you can do with the piano, you could become a rehearsal pianist for Opera/theatre companies or an accompanist or work in a chamber ensemble

also I believe that you can not tell talent from a beginner stage sure a beginner can show promise but talent must be cultivated otherwise it will never become realised, an example I had a pianist friend who was way ahead of the game at school he was the best musician in primary and secondary schools but for some reason he simply hit a wall at A levels and fell behind everyone else he ended up failing his Grade 8 so just because a student shows promise at the beginning doesn't mean they can go all the way

[thompson_321]

I hate to destroy your hope, but... You've said that you are quite old, and you're starting all over again, and you're not good enough to post anything? Seems difficult to become a professional concert pianist. I mean, how can you have a gift if you aren't good enough for a recording? And you need help picking easy pieces?

Uhm... Mozart kv 545, Sinfonias by Bach, Haydn sonatas are easy, but you wont become a concert pianist by starting playing bach sinfonias when you're 30...

This is the problem with the attitude on this website. You are honest, but you assume you can automatically 'destroy my hope', as if I should give up or something. Aren't people supposed to help each other on this website? What does everyone expect me to do?

[thompson_321]

Ok it seems that you are too old to become a concert pianist but that's not the only job you can do with the piano, you could become a rehearsal pianist for Opera/theatre companies or an accompanist or work in a chamber ensemble

also I believe that you can not tell talent from a beginner stage sure a beginner can show promise but talent must be cultivated otherwise it will never become realised, an example I had a pianist friend who was way ahead of the game at school he was the best musician in primary and secondary schools but for some reason he simply hit a wall at A levels and fell behind everyone else he ended up failing his Grade 8 so just because a student shows promise at the beginning doesn't mean they can go all the way

Well, what if I did not start from the beginning? I mean, I have a degree in music, I just never trained for a Concert pianist career. And I do not compromise for anything.

[thompson_321]

I share your ambitions, to go pro. And I too, am starting quite from the beginning. I believe that with high enough ambitions and good discipline you can achieve pretty much anything as long as you are completely willing to do the needed sacrifices without looking back. The reality is that you have many years of practice to catch up on, the good news is that your practice is probably more efficient than that of a 4-6 year old, so you should be able to achieve the basics and hop on to the more fun stuff a lot faster.

If you are serious about it and got the courage to follow your dreams, I say; GO FOR IT!

As James Dean said; "Live as if you'll die today, dream as if you'll live forever."

GREAT! Nice to have a positive comment for a change.

[healdie]

The point is not to make you give up but just be realistic and let you know what the real world is like, it would be equally as bad if we just pandered to everyone's dreams without warning sure you may surprise us all and become a concert pianist and we would love to see that happen

we just want to you to realise how hard the path will be and how unlikely becoming a concert pianist will be (for anyone, even child prodigies rarely make it) just to let you not get too disappointed if you don't succeed, the majority of people on this board aren't Professional concert pianist (although many would love to be as much as you) but many are professionals in music in another capacity (remember professional Pianist does not equal Concert Pianist) and many are just happy amateurs

[pianoman53]

This is the problem with the attitude on this website. You are honest, but you assume you can automatically 'destroy my hope', as if I should give up or something. Aren't people supposed to help each other on this website? What does everyone expect me to do?

Ok, here we go:

OMG YOU ARE SO TALENTED! Even though you are 30, and will start fron scratch, with Bach inventions, I believe in you. I have no idea what you play like, but if you say you have a gift, I believe in you! Don't care about the billion other musicians who also say they have a gift, I have a good feeling about you!
...

Seriously, have you helped anyone here? You've started a billion topics about you wanting to become a concert pianist and a) Lack of money, b) Being surrounded by idiots, who tells you to maybe be realistic, c) Finding a college, d) Find a new college, since the teacher at the old one was such a jerk...
What do you want us to say, that hasn't been said already?

And I did tell you about a few pieces, didn't I?

[richard black]

I have a gift, so I don't think I need to ask anything.

Excuse me if I'm missing something, but if that's so, why do you come here every so often asking unanswerable questions?

As I believe I may have said before, I'm afraid I don't get the impression you're the least bit serious.

[hastur]

... Don't care about the billion other musicians who also say they have a gift, I have a good feeling about you! ...

Gift means nothing, ambition does. If you are ready to make a lot of sacrifices ambition can create any and all circumstances needed to nurture itself, after that you "just" need the discipline to stay on track. Sure, he most certainly won't be a concert pianist tomorrow, but if he practices diligently and makes everything in his power to reach his goal, he probably will in about 10 years (avg. time needed to become a concert pianist, assuming you have the ambition and discipline).

Never understood this stupid nonsense about "prodigies", "geniuses" and what have you... nearly every great musician that started early did so because s/he was born into a musician family and was given help nurturing an interest that later became ambitions, this goes for everything else in life, too.

[simonechristine]

If I were you, I would get a teacher and start practicing already, instead of posting so many repeated things online wasting your time. A concert pianist has no time to waste. Nevertheless, good luck!

[lostinidlewonder]

I have done a BA honours in performance at a university, and a PG diploma at RNCM....

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=42232.msg465193#msg465193


Beginner?

[thompson_321]

Ok, here we go:

OMG YOU ARE SO TALENTED! Even though you are 30, and will start fron scratch, with Bach inventions, I believe in you. I have no idea what you play like, but if you say you have a gift, I believe in you! Don't care about the billion other musicians who also say they have a gift, I have a good feeling about you!
...

Seriously, have you helped anyone here? You've started a billion topics about you wanting to become a concert pianist and a) Lack of money, b) Being surrounded by idiots, who tells you to maybe be realistic, c) Finding a college, d) Find a new college, since the teacher at the old one was such a jerk...
What do you want us to say, that hasn't been said already?

And I did tell you about a few pieces, didn't I?

Ok. Yes you did tell me about some pieces. Thanks.

[thompson_321]

If I were you, I would get a teacher and start practicing already, instead of posting so many repeated things online wasting your time. A concert pianist has no time to waste. Nevertheless, good luck!

You're quite right.

[thompson_321]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=42232.msg465193#msg465193


Beginner?

I'm a beginner with regards to being trained as a concert pianist.

[thompson_321]

Ok, here we go:

OMG YOU ARE SO TALENTED! Even though you are 30, and will start fron scratch, with Bach inventions, I believe in you. I have no idea what you play like, but if you say you have a gift, I believe in you! Don't care about the billion other musicians who also say they have a gift, I have a good feeling about you!


Seriously, have you helped anyone here? You've started a billion topics about you wanting to become a concert pianist and a) Lack of money, b) Being surrounded by idiots, who tells you to maybe be realistic, c) Finding a college, d) Find a new college, since the teacher at the old one was such a jerk...
What do you want us to say, that hasn't been said already?

And I did tell you about a few pieces, didn't I?

[thompson_321]

Excuse me if I'm missing something, but if that's so, why do you come here every so often asking unanswerable questions?

As I believe I may have said before, I'm afraid I don't get the impression you're the least bit serious.

I am serious, probably too serious.

[fleetfingers]

I don't have enough money or a good enough piano to do that.

You should apply for a scholarship. 

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm a beginner with regards to being trained as a concert pianist.

I would think that a Bachelors degree in Performance and graduating with honors would offer some insight as to how a concert performer works.

[pianoman53]

And why do you start over anyway? I mean, it's not like a video game, where you can start over and re-do everything in a better way... or am I missing something?

[richard black]

Quote from: fleetfingers on August 04, 2011, 05:00:29 PM
Why don't you take an 8-hour train ride to London and take classes with that really great teacher you've always wanted to study with? He'll know what to do. 

I don't have enough money or a good enough piano to do that.

That comment mystifies me. What has your own piano got to do with lessons you might take from a teacher in London, on his (or the college's) piano? Stop making excuses and get the heck on with it! You know what's involved.

[arturgajewski]

I am starting from the beginning, and would like anyone to suggest simple pieces I can start with. I am an adult, so I also do not want to hang around. I will be having tuition in September, and then I am planning to do an undergraduate course at college when I am ready. It's like starting all over again, but I already have my a levels and a music degree behind me, so hopefully this will help me move faster. I'm not good enough to post recordings yet.

I'm starting my career being an astronaut, but currently in a beginner level. I am looking for people who could suggest me manuals on how to fly a space shuttle to start with. I am an adult, so I probably could hang around the orbit for a while. I didn't get accepted into the Space Camp but I have seen the movie so I know a lot. It's like starting all over again, but I already have seen all the Star Wars and Star Trek episodes, so hopefully this will help me move in warp speed. Currently I'm not good enough to fly with Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

[go12_3]

As I'm reading through this particular thread, it's interesting to say the least.

I'm at a loss for words because to truly become a concert pianist requires effort, practice, time and dedication along with talent and the gift in playing the piano.  Concentrate on what you can do and practice each day.

This is an online forum so I don't know how you play, thompson_321, nor know you in person, so it's hard to determine what your abilities are in playing the piano.  So it's tricky to give advice other than the fact that if you have the determination to be a concert pianist, then get a good teacher and let the practicing begin! 

[thompson_321]

That comment mystifies me. What has your own piano got to do with lessons you might take from a teacher in London, on his (or the college's) piano? Stop making excuses and get the heck on with it! You know what's involved.

According to a post some time ago, someone said that you need a piano worth at least £60,000. My piano is only £2600. Beginners are practicing on pianos worth at least £6000. The fact is I DON'T know what's involved.

[thompson_321]

That comment mystifies me. What has your own piano got to do with lessons you might take from a teacher in London, on his (or the college's) piano? Stop making excuses and get the heck on with it! You know what's involved.

I thought you needed a decent professional standard piano to practice on? Or am I missing something. Give me some proper answers, and I will respond in a positive way. Ok?

[thompson_321]

I'm starting my career being an astronaut, but currently in a beginner level. I am looking for people who could suggest me manuals on how to fly a space shuttle to start with. I am an adult, so I probably could hang around the orbit for a while. I didn't get accepted into the Space Camp but I have seen the movie so I know a lot. It's like starting all over again, but I already have seen all the Star Wars and Star Trek episodes, so hopefully this will help me move in warp speed. Currently I'm not good enough to fly with Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

In case you haven't noticed it, there are other beginners asking the same question on here, i.e. what pieces to start with. I'm not asking for the secrets of piano mastery and a first class ticket into the world of the elite pianist world, I just want people to throw some ideas in. If you can't be arsed to do even that much, maybe I shouldn't be bothering with this juvenile crap anymore. GROW UP.

[thompson_321]

I'm starting my career being an astronaut, but currently in a beginner level. I am looking for people who could suggest me manuals on how to fly a space shuttle to start with. I am an adult, so I probably could hang around the orbit for a while. I didn't get accepted into the Space Camp but I have seen the movie so I know a lot. It's like starting all over again, but I already have seen all the Star Wars and Star Trek episodes, so hopefully this will help me move in warp speed. Currently I'm not good enough to fly with Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

I'm not asking for manuals, I just asked for some suggestions on pieces for beginners. But if you want to be an idiot and take the mickey, do it somewhere else.

[thompson_321]

And why do you start over anyway? I mean, it's not like a video game, where you can start over and re-do everything in a better way... or am I missing something?

Like it or not, I am starting over because I've never worked towards being a concert pianist. I explained this earlier.

[pianoman53]

So what you're saying is: You're not practising, cause your piano isn't good enough? Yeah, good job becoming a professional if you're not playing on pianos worth less than 60.000$

And seriously, the difference between when you're asking and when some real beginner is asking is:
1. You've a bachelor degree!!!
2. You've been spamming about you're having a gift, and that you are a really good pianist. A really good pianist is both good enough to tell what pieces to play, and good enough to not start playing beginners pieces...


And no, I'm not an ***. I simply can't see your point in starting over. I understand if you check your basic technique once in a while, but I really can't understand why you're starting all over with pieces as well.

[thompson_321]

So what you're saying is: You're not practising, cause your piano isn't good enough? Yeah, good job becoming a professional if you're not playing on pianos worth less than 60.000$

And seriously, the difference between when you're asking and when some real beginner is asking is:
1. You've a bachelor degree!!!
2. You've been spamming about you're having a gift, and that you are a really good pianist. A really good pianist is both good enough to tell what pieces to play, and good enough to not start playing beginners pieces...


And no, I'm not an ***. I simply can't see your point in starting over. I understand if you check your basic technique once in a while, but I really can't understand why you're starting all over with pieces as well.

I haven't been trained to be a concert pianist. I've done some music degree at university, and never concentrated on what I'm meant to do. There are basic things I need to go back to. I'm a perfectionist. Obviously not on here, but I need to learn to control myself more.

[thompson_321]

So what you're saying is: You're not practising, cause your piano isn't good enough? Yeah, good job becoming a professional if you're not playing on pianos worth less than 60.000$

And seriously, the difference between when you're asking and when some real beginner is asking is:
1. You've a bachelor degree!!!
2. You've been spamming about you're having a gift, and that you are a really good pianist. A really good pianist is both good enough to tell what pieces to play, and good enough to not start playing beginners pieces...


And no, I'm not an ***. I simply can't see your point in starting over. I understand if you check your basic technique once in a while, but I really can't understand why you're starting all over with pieces as well.

Look, let's call it a day.

[thompson_321]

You should apply for a scholarship. 

To have private tuition?

[sucom]

Hi Thompson
Your posts have really confused me.  I believe you when you say that you want to be a concert pianist and my first thought is 'Why would you like to be a concert pianist?'  My own belief is that the life of a concert pianist is actually quite a lonely lifestyle, and also fairly stressful.  What is it that makes you wish to do this as a profession?  Stating that you are a beginner is misleading; it made me think of a real 'beginner' and actually, I don't believe you are!  So more information would have been helpful in avoiding some of the responses you have received.

My own thoughts about 'deciding' to be a concert pianist are that generally a person with a 'gift' will attract attention from other musicians around them, who will then encourage and motivate the person to move into a performance direction, offering help and advice along the way.  A person whose gift becomes known tends to find all kinds of opportunities appearing around them as long as they are around other musicians or a teacher of worth.  I don't believe it is possible to 'go it alone'; encouragement and advice are both necessary to help the performer on their way.  If you do have a gift, and certainly from your posts alone it is not possible to determine this, then this will have already been noticed by a professional or will in the future be noticed should you continue along the route you have chosen.

I would say to try to find the funds to attend lessons with the very best teacher you can find; a teacher who him or herself has followed a performance route.  The teacher will also offer advice on repertoire and lead you in a direction that is right for you.

In terms of a good instrument - a good instrument is extremely valuable to the potential performer because you will be trying to attain the high standards of playing that only a good instrument will allow.  Again, a good teacher will discuss this with you.  For now, I would begin to take practice seriously and look into learning some of the general repertoire of the masters, find a teacher, and move forward from there.

[pianoman53]

Don't you ever get tired of first being rude, and say call us stupid, and then say "Sorry, I have to learn how to control myself?"

To have private tuition?

No to buy a billion dollar piano, so you have something to practise on. Stop making excuses, and go practising.

[richard black]

I thought you needed a decent professional standard piano to practice on? Or am I missing something. Give me some proper answers, and I will respond in a positive way. Ok?

All right, keep your hair on. I've never heard of such a thing as a 'decent professional standard piano', and I speak as a professional pianist. I've been lucky to have some quite nice pianos to practice on in my life, due to a combination of diligence in searching them out and luck - quite assuredly none of them has been worth anything LIKE £60,000. My current favourite cost almost exactly the same as yours, as it happens.

I'm sure plenty of pianists have made a career after learning principally on some really shabby pianos. My wife's cousin, who could perfectly well have made a modest career (maybe never really big-time) and who does in fact do the odd quite nice concert though she's settled into a good job as a staff accompanist at a leading conservatoire, did most of her practise on some really shocking instruments, a couple of which I've played. Her husband, who is by any standard a 'concert pianist' (i.e. he earns his entire living playing solo recitals and concertos around the world in the best-known venues) does most of his practice even now on a tiny Steinway grand (never looked inside it, it might be an L) in really not-very-good condition. My old teacher, who can also call himself a concert pianist with a straight face (though he's always relied equally on teaching), has had some decidedly ropey instruments since I've known him.

In fact I've heard very experienced pianists say they like to practise on a crappy instrument since if they can make a good tone on that, they can make a good tone on anything. Good point, I reckon. (I don't feel that need myself because I get to play some pretty crappy pianos in the course of my work.)

So don't make excuses, get on and do some work with the tools you've got!

[nyiregyhazi]

Gift means nothing, ambition does. If you are ready to make a lot of sacrifices ambition can create any and all circumstances needed to nurture itself, after that you "just" need the discipline to stay on track. Sure, he most certainly won't be a concert pianist tomorrow, but if he practices diligently and makes everything in his power to reach his goal, he probably will in about 10 years (avg. time needed to become a concert pianist, assuming you have the ambition and discipline).

Never understood this stupid nonsense about "prodigies", "geniuses" and what have you... nearly every great musician that started early did so because s/he was born into a musician family and was given help nurturing an interest that later became ambitions, this goes for everything else in life, too.

Don't be such a total dumbass. Sorry to be so blunt,but you need to hear it and enter the real world. Do you think the reason that Mozart could take flawless dictation of complex works as a child was that his parents were musicians- or that anyone could even learn such an ability in their 30s, as a beginner? Your belief stems solely from hope.

Nobody should be dissuaded from starting music later (for the sake of enjoyment), but to think about it as a career before having even attained basic competence (never mind excellence) is just deluded to the point where a person's mental health would have be seriously brought into question. What the hell leads you to believe that 10 years of hard work magically creates a concert pianist?

If your goal is music itself, go ahead if that's what you want to do (but don't either bank on necessarily earning a penny for your trouble or reaching the level you desire). If your goal is some romanticised ideal of living the life of a concert pianist (above the music itself), you'd be better of fantasising about being a pop star. It's the basically the same fantasy that the cranks who audition for the X-factor have. I think you're drawn to a dream of fame and glory before music itself. If you take the pop-star route, you don't have to waste 10 years putting in hard work before realising that you're never going to achieve such a dream due to having no remarkable talent compared to the competition.

[nyiregyhazi]

I'm not asking for manuals, I just asked for some suggestions on pieces for beginners. But if you want to be an idiot and take the mickey, do it somewhere else.

So you decided to become a beginner again? But without receiving technical guidance? Well, that's not becoming a beginner again. You cannot just wipe a slate of habits clean by yourself.

If you already know enough about what is required to train yourself up unaided, why are you becoming a beginner? If you don't, what makes you believe you can magically figure out how to fix existing problems? You seem to believe that if you choose the right pieces and follow a list of instructions from strangers, you'll flourish. I don't wish to be needlessly negative, but what makes you believe that a handful of soundbites and a list of pieces will help? You need to ask a whole lot of questions (not of this forum but of YOURSELF), if you don't want to blow your enthusiasm on pissing into the wind.

If you're going it alone, my blog contains a lot of information that may help you discover some of the problems in the basic premise of movement. It's not a quick read that claims you can suddenly develop a fine technique if you merely "curve your fingers more" or any other such simplified crap. However, if you're willing to put the effort in, I believe it will expose and help you to fix some of the most fundamental stumbling blocks in your quality of movement. Teaching a person how to teach themself to move better is the primary premise..

[thompson_321]

So you decided to become a beginner again? But without receiving technical guidance? Well, that's not becoming a beginner again. You cannot just wipe a slate of habits clean by yourself.

If you already know enough about what is required to train yourself up unaided, why are you becoming a beginner? If you don't, what makes you believe you can magically figure out how to fix existing problems? You seem to believe that if you choose the right pieces and follow a list of instructions from strangers, you'll flourish. I don't wish to be needlessly negative, but what makes you believe that a handful of soundbites and a list of pieces will help? You need to ask a whole lot of questions (not of this forum but of YOURSELF), if you don't want to blow your enthusiasm on pissing into the wind.

If you're going it alone, my blog contains a lot of information that may help you discover some of the problems in the basic premise of movement. It's not a quick read that claims you can suddenly develop a fine technique if you merely "curve your fingers more" or any other such simplified crap. However, if you're willing to put the effort in, I believe it will expose and help you to fix some of the most fundamental stumbling blocks in your quality of movement. Teaching a person how to teach themself to move better is the primary premise..

I've lost interest and haven't even read this. I dig my own grave. I'll move on.

[hastur]

Don't be such a total dumbass. Sorry to be so blunt,but you need to hear it and enter the real world. Do you think the reason that Mozart could take flawless dictation of complex works as a child was that his parents were musicians- or that anyone could even learn such an ability in their 30s, as a beginner? Your belief stems solely from hope.

Nobody should be dissuaded from starting music later (for the sake of enjoyment), but to think about it as a career before having even attained basic competence (never mind excellence) is just deluded to the point where a person's mental health would have be seriously brought into question. What the hell leads you to believe that 10 years of hard work magically creates a concert pianist?

If your goal is music itself, go ahead if that's what you want to do (but don't either bank on necessarily earning a penny for your trouble or reaching the level you desire). If your goal is some romanticised ideal of living the life of a concert pianist (above the music itself), you'd be better of fantasising about being a pop star. It's the basically the same fantasy that the cranks who audition for the X-factor have. I think you're drawn to a dream of fame and glory before music itself. If you take the pop-star route, you don't have to waste 10 years putting in hard work before realising that you're never going to achieve such a dream due to having no remarkable talent compared to the competition.

Ah, but you miss my point quite entirely. First of all I'd like to clarify that I never said that I would necessarily be a concert level pianist in 10 years, I say that it takes about 10 years to reach it, give or take a couple. Your so-called prodigies start when they are 4-6 and are suddenly seen in concerts and recitals at 14-16, for some it takes a lot longer than that, and some reach their goals in a shorter period of time.

But I digress. My goal is to strive for perfection until the day I could play in concerts, and then keep on going, be this day in 10 or 30 years from now (or more, for that matter), I don't care. And I'd say that anyone striving to become a concert pianist for the fame and glory has little to do in the business, and that such a person is very likely to fail horribly. The ambition of becoming a concert pianist means you'll have to sacrifice everything in the name of music. Without being settled to live for music and music alone, your ambitions are misguided at best.

I hold no false hopes of surpassing the greatest pianists, or even coming anywhere near them. But my ambition is still to strive for perfection. Do not assume things about people with little to no knowledge about them, it is not only ignorant but rude.

Good day, sir.

PS. To clarify what I mean by ambitions, striving for perfection, dedication, and discipline:

High ambitions will force you to always make your circumstances the best they can be (even if it means sacrificing things in pursuit of them), and rewarding opportunities will present themselves, after that it is up to dedication and discipline to seize the opportunities presented.

[nyiregyhazi]

I've lost interest and haven't even read this. I dig my own grave. I'll move on.

Hate me if you like, but can you honestly say that you asked yourself any of those questions and found an answer you are comfortable with? Difficult questions are the most important ones to face, if you're serious about this. You might think I'm just being rude, but you owe it to YOURSELF to stop and consider them.

[nyiregyhazi]

"Ah, but you miss my point quite entirely. First of all I'd like to clarify that I never said that I would necessarily be a concert level pianist in 10 years, I say that it takes about 10 years to reach it, give or take a couple. Your so-called prodigies start when they are 4-6 and are suddenly seen in concerts and recitals at 14-16"

Not true. That would be regarded as pretty slow. Far from truly prodigious. Many display abilities that even professionals never acquire, within their earliest years.  Artistry takes time to mature, but there are countless examples of prodigies who have the technical apparatus for concert-level performance of difficult repertoire in a tiny number of years. That's without going into the neurological issues that mean young people can learn quicker. Later in life the most intricate skills simply cannot be ingrained as easily, if at all. 10 years a is a meaningless figure. Prodigies don't take that long and even 20 years may not be enough for an adult to reach a seriously advanced level.

Putting a spin on reality to downplay quite what a head-start most professionals started with can only provide false hopes. I wish you nothing but the best of luck if you're aiming high while staying realistic- but I'd be very careful not to distort reality for the sake of providing hope. There's no call for letting yourself become downtrodden with negativity. But it's all too easy to use dubious arguments as a way of trying to side-stepping issues that ought to be seriously considered.