Help playing 32nd note trill in tempo

[gore234]

I have learned to play the mozart piano sonata k.545 first movement in C-Major and can play it pretty decent except when the 32nd note trill comes in the right hand while playing 16th note alberti bass in the left hand.  After a week of practicing my trills, I still can't seem to increase my speed and I was wondering if there were any practice techniques that would help me.

I using my index and middle finger.

[cjcarrington97]

Try using 1,3 repeatedly instead, it might be easier and can give a bit more speed. 

[mcdiddy1]

Try using 1,3 repeatedly instead, it might be easier and can give a bit more speed. 

Do that and also practice rotating your wrist as if you were opening a door knob. Lean your forearm toward the higher note and let the key come out of the escapement level so all the notes can be heard.

[gore234]

Thanks you guys,  I also saw some people on youtube playing the trill the same way you guys talked about.

[arctic_mama]

Yes, you will have a difficult time playing the trill lightly and quickly if you play it with your fingers, so to speak.  It is really a gestural wrist movement, a fluttering back and forth.  My fingers are somewhat passive to the motion of my wrists in any trill in a piece quicker than moderato!

[rmbarbosa]

wrist mouvements are very important but not enough. You may wish to use parallel sets. Have a look to "Fundamentals of piano practice" by C.C. Chang (free download"). It works fine.
Best wishes
Rui

[gore234]

I recorded myself playing the piece and I'm a little faster at the trill now but the tempo still drags a bit.  I'll embed the video.  I think I also noticed that a few people play a 16th note trill over the 16 note alberti bass but I'm not sure.

[pianowolfi]

I'd suggest to start practicing the trill at the speed of the sixteenth notes of the left hand, for quite a while! Try to relax your wrist! It looks very tense.  If you feel absolutely comfortable with the sixteenths start to practice sixteenth triplets over sixteenths! What you are trying to do now is definitely too fast for your level, it's 32nds over sixteenths, and you have probably skipped the sixteenth triplets in your practice. These triplets will also give you the feeling of more independence between the hands!

 In my book you are sitting a bit too low, and your wrist is too low and you are trying to do things with force and pressure, but they won't work like this. They will work better if you loosen up! You are not thinking in melodic shapes yet, but only in single notes that need to be as fast as possible. So you sound like a robot (sorry to say).

I like your precision though! Many students who have a more relaxed approach tend to play unevenly and don't care about precision. So if you could bring your striving for precision together with a much more relaxed and musical approach it would be ideal.

[dcstudio]

I recorded myself playing the piece and I'm a little faster at the trill now but the tempo still drags a bit.  I'll embed the video.  I think I also noticed that a few people play a 16th note trill over the 16 note alberti bass but I'm not sure.

I think that maybe if you stop thinking about it being 32nd against 16ths you would find this easier.  you tense up incredibly because you think this is difficult. try playing this trill softer, try not pressing each note all the way to the bottom.  this is not a melody--so to speak.  i think of butterflies fluttering to play this.  just a thought--it works for me anyway.

thanks so much for posting this

[pianowolfi]

I think that's a very good advice, dcstudio

[gore234]

Thank you guys for all the helpful advice.

[arctic_mama]

Very nice!  I agree that you seem to be sitting too low and a bit closer than I personally would, as well.  You seem very hunched and tense instead of more open and relaxed, and the tension in your wrist and hand during the trills was pretty painful looking

I agree you were very clean and precise, now might just be the time to think less syncopation with those and more of a fluttery, light motion. 

[werq34ac]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about them being EXACTLY 32nd notes. You don't necessarily need 2 notes per 16th. After all, a trill is just an ornament and ornaments are to be played at any speed the performer wishes (within reason..) I would just play the trills faster than normal 16ths and it will still sound brilliant.

[dcstudio]

what a pleasant thread.  great advice from all.  Love to see that. 

[werq34ac]

If you find that 13131313 isn't working because of the end of the trill, you might want to try 2424. Having an extra finger between the trill fingers allows for easier rotation of the wrist which in turn leads to a more brilliant, faster trill.

[gore234]

I think the 131313 works best for me right now. I'll keep experimenting.  Lately I've been working on moonlight sonata first movement but my back has been hurting. 

Maybe I'll get faster over time as I learn more classical pieces. 

[cjcarrington97]

I just had a listen to your performance (yes I'm not a regular member on this piano street)
Other than the bit you are finding difficult, even though it's nearly there, all of your other trills are very crisp and sufficient.
Now, for your problem, try and play the piece, but once it gets to the mega 32nd trills, just play it in the right hand until that is fine, then play the rest of the piece as normal.
Then do the same with the left hand.
Then of course, both together.

Upon finishing up the piece, I would suggest having childish fun with it as you are probably aware Mozart created a lot of boyish fun in most of his music.
Try to press the keys lightly, you will find that it will probably be a hell of a lot easier to play the whole piece, especially the trill.
The trill is supposedly meant to sound like butterflies flapping their wings frantically

[gore234]

Thanks for the helpful advice.