MIKING a PIANO (your experience)

[emill]

After doing a good amount of reading, I ended up buying a Zoom H4n digital audio
recorder very recently because of its versatility aside from the good quality recordings it makes...
definitely better than any videocam's mic/audio system.  Although on the basis of reviews,
Sony"s pcm D50 seems to slightly edge out the Zoom H4n in recording quality, its major drawback is the very limited ability to do other things except the most basic.  In the H4n, one can have 2 xlr connected mikes with phantom power to give one the ability to expand and tweak recording.  One can also record in 4 channels simultaneously with independent recording level controls... wow!!! The only problem really is the miking positions which is a voluminous topic in itself and can be quite overwhelming.  Together with the H4n ... I also availed of two pencil mikes (Shure pg81) ... and the appropriate attachments and cables.

I am sure there very knowledgeable guys here when it comes to miking a grand piano.  Shure and many others also have their own suggestions ..... overall it boils down to individual taste which is often achieved by trial and error.... considering many factors like acoustics of the room or hall, size, quality of equipment etc. .. and the piano itself.

May you be so kind to share your experience whether bad or good?    Below is my 1st recording experience using the zoom H4n .... I made this as soon as I received the device ... without reading the manual  .... placed the batteries and just used the built in mikes in the XY 90 degrees configuration.   I was about 8 feet from the Yamaha G3 (55 years old!!!) and off axis.... to the side.   I asked Enzo to play the last parts of Chopins Scherzo No.3 .... but a little louder than he usually does...

THANKS for SHARING your experience...... I hope to lessen my headches by not repeating your mistakes   or by copying your technique to a certain extent.

Sorry.... it even picked up the squeeking pedal mechanism...

[krystellle]

The first half sounded good - except for all those extraneous noises - the coda, less so.  It was dry and dead.  I don't think it was your piano, though.  I don't know - I'm the wrong person to ask about these things.  Maybe too close to the piano?

[quantum]

Here's a thread I started several years ago.  There is a lot of useful info in it:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=10124.0

I've also got an H4n, plus some Studio Projects B1 mics to go with a separate audio interface.  However, I haven't used the XLR inputs in the H4n yet as i usually use this device for field recording, while using the studio mics at home.

There are many recordings of mine in the Audition room using various pianos and recording gear.  I usually also make notes of what I used to record in the post.  As well there are other people on here with similar devices.  It may be good for you listen to some recordings.  If you like a sound, ask the person what they did for setup.  

Here is a recording I did to compare my H4n and Studio Projects B1 mics:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=35970.0

Finding a recording sound is like choosing colors - there is no cut and dry right and wrong.  You do have to do a lot of listening though, and through that listing will be able to fine tune your ears and recording techniques. 

[annaivanova]

This is not a post by Anna Ivanova but from the engineer that made some of her recordings.
I do use a Zoom h4n as well together with a set of XLR mics.

If you listen to this link

and the other Bechstein D282 recordings you hear the sound of the H4N mixed with a set of DPA 4061 placed on the frame. In the end we found the DPA sound too dry as this D282 Bechstein sounded like an electrical piano. So we put the DPA's at half volume and the H4N internal mikes at full. This gave the sound that you hear.

The DPA's are extremely expensive and were not ours.

The recordings made on Franz Liszt's 576 Bechstein were made with a Marantz 620 and a set of Sony mics. We had to reengineer the sound in the end as this was a noisy and flat sounding combination that we will not use again. Example

Recently we bought out of curiosity a set of T.Bone SC 140 matched pair from Thomann Online music store for Euro 109,- per set including 2x 10 metre cable. We placed these under the lid at approx. 40 cm's from the strings in a Y (90 degree) position.
The sound was amazingly good and 'expensive'. The T.Bones compared with the H4N gave a big improvement.
We have no recordings yet, but they will come in approx 1 month. The only trade off compared with the DPA's is that with video they can be seen in this position.

[annaivanova]

See attached file from DPA (Bruel & Kjaer) regarding miking a grand piano.

[keyboardkat]

I the olden days of radio (remember those?   They didn't have a picture tube) when they would have live performances by pianists, they sometimes put the mike on pillows under the grand piano.   It picked up the sound right from the soundboard.  Gave it a great, slightly percussive effect.    Try it.

[willvenables]

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[willvenables]

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[willvenables]

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[quantum]

willvenables, I think it would be very helpful if you included details on the mics themselves, and the preamp used.  Details such as type (dynamic, condenser, ribbon, etc.) and pickup pattern (omni, cardioid, figure 8, etc.).   Knowing a model number would be useful. 

For anyone wishing to try out your mic patterns, these details are quite important. 

[oxy60]

Ribbon mics under the piano should be part of the mix. Then sweeten the sound with another set to pick up the direct sound at human ear level. Try different distances from the piano and different mix percentages until you get what you like.

If it is for a one shot set up then isolate the tracks and have different sets of mics at different distances. I would go for six tracks: 1&2 from the ribbons under the piano, 3&4 from the condensers about a meter away pointing down at the strings and 5&6 from the condensers some distance at about where the first few rows of the audience would sit. If I had the possibility I would add another pair (or even a single) mic at the back of the hall (7&.

Starting percentages, 50% from 1&2, 25% 3&4 and 25% split between 5&6 and 7&8. Be aware of your stereo image from the different pairs and be sure they all line up.

[quantum]

Oxy, do you have experience with boundary mics?  I've seen them placed inside the piano on the sound board.  Personally, I've never experimented with them. 

[oxy60]

No. I suspect they would give a sound similar to an electric guitar that then would need some processing.

At a certain point in the process of recording an acoustic piano we need to clarify (decide on) our philosophy. I feel that the piano should be treated the same as any other acoustic instrument. As soon as we start placing mics inside it we change what we hear. A piano is a total instrument. All the components used in the manufacture are important to the total sound. In addition the room/hall where it is installed also plays a factor.

I mentioned a six or eight microphone setup. My goal there was to capture the total sound of the total instrument in its total environment when no prerecording was possible. Ideally I could do it with two microphones but I would need to do some tests.