forum pollution

[Derek]

Am I the only person who is getting slightly irritated with dozens upon dozens of posts that are one line long and frequently say next to nothing? I remember the days when I could come to this site, and see a list of interesting recent posts by...gasp...several different people! A less frequent occasion of late.

[Derek]

Nils, what does "Was this post useful?" do? If someone gets enough downvotes from enough unique members, do they get banned for a while?

[keyboardclass]

Mostly rubbish these days.

[pianoplayjl]

It's probably me. I'm sorry. Ill try to make my responses more longer if possible. 

[Derek]

Nils, I have a fantastic idea. I'm not certain if I have seen this on other boards or not, it may be new. It also borrows a bit from a suggestion that another member made, namely to have member ratings like "expert contributor."

-each member could have up votes and down votes for how helpful they are.

-A certain number of up votes in different boards or child boards would label them as "expert performance contributor"   or  "expert improvisation contributor"  or "expert instruments contributor" (for gear heads)

-Then, readers of the forum could have the option of viewing:

* ALL posts

* posts by people who have a certain level of up votes

This way, people who are interested only in the sincere and thoughtful could simply filter out all the garbage.

who knows, perhaps you could even count the number of times certain members get completely filtered out, and then automatically send them a message like: "this site is for thoughtful discourse on piano music. Are you sure you're on the right site? Only three people have read your messages in the last year."

Remember how youtube used to be a cesspool of trolls and garbage? Ever since they introduced "top comments" and voting, it has transformed into a competition for the wittiest or most interesting top comment. I feel like I haven't seen youtube vitriol in a while, though I'm sure it still exists. Not saying the present situation involves vitriol, its all been polite, just agonizingly vapid and pointless.

[Derek]

I got another idea. This is a lot simpler than my previous one. How about a limit on sheer # of posts that contain less than a certain number of characters? The user could simply get a message: "You have made too many short posts in a short time period. Consider thinking out your posts a bit longer, or wait before your make more idle comments." That might be a nice solution!  Wouldn't stop people from making the occasional idle or brief remark, but would prevent "polluters" from making the site seem to be occupied by approximately one person most of the time.

The only question would be how to choose the # of characters appropriate. It still wouldn't stop a sufficiently motivated person who is interested only in irritating people from bloviating more, though.

[pianoplayjl]

I think that's fair enough. I mean maybe a person should post at least 100 characters for each post like me and even a maximum post per day thingy. If you over post then you are automatically logged out.

[pianowolfi]

I don't like this sort of regulation and restrictions. I think it's much better that the admins decide in single cases of abuse or "pollution" and that the forum remains free from police state attitudes as much as possible, as it has been for a long time already.

[pianoplayjl]

I don't like this sort of regulation and restrictions. I think it's much better that the admins decide in single cases of abuse or "pollution" and that the forum remains free from police state attitudes as much as possible, as it has been for a long time already.

I certainly agree. One should be able to post what even he wants on pianostreet as olong as it is appropriate, makes sense and is relevent to topic and is not silly. Nils should decide what is pollution, as in the case of mine. I've been like posting 50 times a day and Nils messaged me telling me to stop posting too much so I tried to comply.

[Bob]

Nils had a voting thing on here a few years ago but I don't think it worked very well. 

[pianoplayjl]

Nils had a voting thing on here a few years ago but I don't think it worked very well. 

What was that all about?

[Bob]

Haha.  Actually they're still there.  On the lower right of each post.  "Do you find this post useful?"  Maybe it's still working but only Nils can see it.  You used to be able to see someone's "score" in their profile page for awhile.

[pianoplayjl]

Haha.  Actually they're still there.  On the lower right of each post.  "Do you find this post useful?"  Maybe it's still working but only Nils can see it.  You used to be able to see someone's "score" in their profile page for awhile.

What does 'do you find this post useful?' do?

[Derek]

What does 'do you find this post useful?' do?

I'm not sure, but I think you're the first person who has inspired me to use the feature, in my opinion.

[kellyc]

Please note: This board is primarily intended for professional pianists and piano teachers as well as piano students and amateures at an advanced level. If you are not part of this group, consider posting in the Student's Corner instead. There is a notice as follows when you go to post on the performers board.

"Please note: This board is primarily intended for professional pianists and piano teachers as well as piano students and amateures at an advanced level. If you are not part of this group, consider posting in the Student's Corner instead."

That seems to be ignored quite a bit. Perhaps if that concept where emphasized more the boards would make more sense.

Another thing I noticed is it says on the audition board to post yourself playing, not someone else who while they may be a fine pianist , we could all listen to on you tube anytime we wanted to. As I understand it , the idea is to post ourselves playing so each of us can help and comment on the other persons playing .

Another thing I have noticed more than once are threads being hijacked from what the original poster intended.

Another thing I noticed are threads that have been dead for months or even more than a year being resurrected  even if the original poster has left Piano street.

Now granted I'm pretty new to Piano street and may not know what I'm talking about. But, this is what I have observed and I thought would be worth mentioning in this discussion.

I hope my 2 cents has helped a little.

Kelly

[pianoplayjl]

I'm merely reviving old threads because I'm interested in them or that I think they are worth reviving

[fleetfingers]

The problem is that the enforcers have all left: stevebob, pianisten1989, pianist1976, thalbergmad, and a few others. They were always there to criticize people for making useless comments, promoting websites on every board, trolling, asking dumb questions, playing badly, breaking the rules of the forum, starting a new topic when there already was one, etc. It felt like they were being mean at times, but somebody has to keep everything in check. Now, there is nobody saying anything when someone posts a link, and I wonder - Where did everybody go?

And I still wonder about people who I think are fakes. . .

[pianoplayjl]

No one's perfect in pianostreet, everyone posts stupid comments. EVERYONE.

[keyboardclass]

Stevebob was a great mate!

[pianoplayjl]

Everyone's awesome! There are people in here that post trash (like me) and those that never do. Like m1469, Lostinidlewonder and Rachfan. Their responses are epic and essay-like. Invaluable advice, insight, feedback and criticism.

[kellyc]

After thinking about this over night, (can't believe I actually spent time thinking on this before I went to be - sigh), and reading some of the posts, it struck me that looking for a moderator to handle this some how is not the right answer. It really is up to the members. It is up to all the members to put up good posts, to not respond to silly posts, to police Piano street and make our feelings known if we feel that things aren't going the way they should. Fleetfingers mentioned about some of the individuals who have left and how they where enforcers. Well in a sense all of us here have the obligation to try and make sure things go well. As far as all the wonderful postings that used to be posted, who was posting them. Why, members just like ourselves.

So, taking my own advice , I'm going to start posting some topics. I would appreciate if there good hearing from people. If there not, let me know also . I will try something else. Do your part to .

One last thing. I did a little looking back quite away in time on some older posts. People have been going and coming for ages. There are very very few Rachfans, who have been here for ages. Just accept it. People go and people come. The board stays the same , but also changes. The board is what the active members make it. 

Im only here a month and to me it seems like a great place to share a few thoughts, share some music , and maybe in the process help a few other musicians, and get helped yourself  in return.

With only the best of intentions in mind, Kelly

[pianoplayjl]

After thinking about this over night, (can't believe I actually spent time thinking on this before I went to be - sigh), and reading some of the posts, it struck me that looking for a moderator to handle this some how is not the right answer. It really is up to the members. It is up to all the members to put up good posts, to not respond to silly posts, to police Piano street and make our feelings known if we feel that things aren't going the way they should. Fleetfingers mentioned about some of the individuals who have left and how they where enforcers. Well in a sense all of us here have the obligation to try and make sure things go well. As far as all the wonderful postings that used to be posted, who was posting them. Why, members just like ourselves.

Good on you Kelly! this is what I call democracy!   :-[We are the police and we can make it a better place because surely Nils himself is not a oneman police force and can't do everything by himself?

BTW, what's a moderator? I'm new to online forums, you see.

[ethure]

BTW, what's a moderator? I'm new to online forums, you see.

A moderator is someone who is responsible to help manage the forum -- adjusting the posts, ruling the posts, telling people what to do and what not etc.

[pianoplayjl]

So would Nils be the moderator/administrator? he has a huge burden in managing a very big forum....

[Bob]

He's pretty quiet, works in the background.  Although occasionally something is done without any warning, like a thread disappearing.

[pianoplayjl]

He reminds me of Men in Black. He sent  a message to me not long ago telling me off. I guess he's right.

[Bob]

Nils told you off?

[pianoplayjl]

Yeah he told me to stop posting 50 times a day and make the posts more interesting and longer, which I've tried to my best. Anyway that was exactly when Derek started this thread. I thought I was polluting the forum anyway. I deserved it.

[Bob]

I haven't minded.  I thought someone would grip about bringing up old posts, but they didn't.  It's been a little more interesting here lately.  The forum felt a little stale before.

[pianoplayjl]

I thought my earlier posts were a little dumb, pointless and ridiculous. I remembered in 1 post (I can't remember) werq34ac told me off and even called me a dumbass for my response. I so deserved that one.... Many of my responses were barely a line long and that I think is what triggered Derek to write up this thread.

[thalbergmad]

Another thing I noticed are threads that have been dead for months or even more than a year being resurrected  even if the original poster has left Piano street.

Especially strange are the ones where someone has asked for repetoire advice for their audition and someone else replies so long after the event that the originator has probably had a career, retired and is sitting at home with his pipe and slippers bouncing his grandchildren on his knee.

Thal

[Bob]

Welcome back.

[thalbergmad]

Thanks old bean.

Now it is time for some pollution.

Thal

[ahinton]

Thanks old bean.

Now it is time for some pollution.

But not before I also welcome you back!

Best,

Alistair

[scottmcc]

Ah, the irony of Kellyc, hoaxster, commenting at length on thread pollution...

Anyway, welcome back sr. Thalbergmad, I at least missed your brand of pollution.  

[littletune]

Especially strange are the ones where someone has asked for repetoire advice for their audition and someone else replies so long after the event that the originator has probably had a career, retired and is sitting at home with his pipe and slippers bouncing his grandchildren on his knee.

Thal

  Well I didn't know that Pianostreet existed for soooo long already!   

Thanks old bean.

That is funny too! Because "bob" in my language means something similar to beans.   

Hi Thal! I knew you would come back someday!     

[pianoplayjl]

Welcome back Thal! I've missed the sense of humour you had! whyt he hiatus anyway?

[rachfan]

Hi Everyone,

I saw my name mentioned here a few times, so thought I should join this thread at least briefly.  Come January 4, 2012, I will have been here at Piano Street (formerly Piano Forum) for 9 years.  Time flies!  

Anyway, I believe that the "norms" of a website like Piano Street grow out of its culture.  And we collectively have the responsibility of forming those norms through our own interactions here.  Piano Street has been open and welcoming to pianists and others since its inception.  There are sometimes professionals, conservatory/university piano department students, accomplished amateurs, casual pianists, and also at times children who range from beginners or intermediate students to prodigies.  It's quite a mix of musicians, so it can be very enriching.  But it's up to the members to assure that everyone benefits by helping to "raise the bar" on quality of performances and recordings, giving and accepting meaningful and helpful critiques, as well as being respectful of one another at all times.  

I agree with pianowolfi that we really don't need a police state here, just norms that best facilitate the purpose of Piano Street--to come together to post recordings for one another to enjoy and to have wonderful and insightful discussions about composers, pianists, pianos, repertoire, performance, pedagogy, etc.  

Almost all of us are quite tolerant, but there have been occasions where some new members have turned out, unfortunately, to actually be spammers, hoaxsters, trolls, posters of the most atrocious performances, and the like. Nils has stepped in when the norms were ignored, and ejected and banished those who were irresponsible.  It's too bad when it must come to that, but also necessary in order to address the very worst of "forum pollution" as it's been called in this thread.  

People do come and go here.  There are a few of us who seem like fixtures here, but there is a constant "churn" in the membership too.  It saddens me when fine musicians and artists in particular disappear. But usually they leave a fine legacy of recordings that we can continue to enjoy, and soon other marvelous pianists take their place.

Nothing in this world is perfect, but my sense is that most of us really enjoy the time we spend at Piano Street.  Hopefully it'll continue for a very long time to come!

David    

  

[ted]

For me, what distinguishes Pianostreet from the other places is that the majority here are broadminded about music. Of course nobody likes every sort of music equally, but Pianostreet lacks the (to me) destructively desperate camp following which occurs almost everywhere else. This is particularly important for someone like me, who doesn't really fit into any traditional category. I have been roundly admonished in other places for voicing original thoughts, without test of merit, simply because they don't conform to this or that traditional way of looking at things. How are we ever going to discover and test new expressive possibilities in music and piano playing if we all travel to our graves along the well worn paths without constantly wandering and exploring ? The internet, and its ability to instantly communicate ideas, pictures and sounds, has changed the parameters of every aspect of piano music; I say for the better. If the price of this greater musical freedom is the occasional piece of nonsense or hoax, then it doesn't worry me particularly.

[Derek]

I just got a bit annoyed with pianoplayjl for spending a few days answering nearly every thread in the forum. The guy has more than half the number of posts I've made, in less than a month. I personally think that is excessive, especially given the rather vapid content of 85% of his posts. I wouldn't care about the occasional idle remark by anybody, it was the volume of idle remarks that got me a bit irritated. I'm sure I wasn't the only one, either. There were a few days where I'd look at all the recent posts, and ALL of them said pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl pianoplayjl.

I think he has since taken the hint, as I haven't seen this occur recently. So, thanks.

I agree with ted about the hoaxes. They're very easy to detect anyway, so who cares. Too bad not everyone can detect them immediately, or completely ignoring this sort of behavior would be an excellent way to snuff it out. The sort of pollution mentioned above requires feedback, though, because it reduces the quality of this community when it happens.

[emill]

Thanks old bean.
Now it is time for some pollution.
Thal

But not before I also welcome you back!
Best,
Alistair

Oh well . . . if Thal is around, Alistair can't be far away and vice-versa.
I must admit PS felt duller to me without them .... despite their often interminable skirmishes.

[pianoplayjl]

I guess that bumping can be considered polluting the forum, where people purposely bump threads by posting 'BUMP' in a post as opposed to people subconsciously bumping threads by posting random info or really short posts. That really is unacceptable though it is an element of internet forum culture that we cannot exterminate and control.

JL

[Bob]

Just say you found the topic interesting and ask if anyone has any new thoughts.

[pianoplayjl]

I guess I'm the major forum polluter.  Anyway during the time I spent on PS I found 2 different guys ( can't remember usenames) were advertising stuff which is against the rules in PF. 1 guy was advertising handbags and the other guy was advertising about pianos. What the hell! Luckily Nils removed their posts. They should get the 1st priority instead of one liners.

JL

[flyinfingers]

Are you trying to say that a little bit of personality isn't wanted here?  Do we have to be so sterile and take such a stoic stance as some?  If so, I will bow out never to return.   I'm sorry that I'm not so spiritual as m1469 and not a so-called concert pianist as that lost guy (pain in my rear end) so just send me a PM as soon as possible before I become the subject of ridicule.
I'm not so sure after reading this that I should contribute any longer.

Are you trying to say that you opposed to Clint posting a message about his pianos, PianoPlayer?  If so, after he did, I did a bunch of research that you so supposedly appreciated because you said you were being educated on pianos!  If Clint wouldn't have posted then you would have gotten no more info on rebuilt pianos!
It's not like he's a store; he has a gifted talent in rebuilding pianos, and I'm so glad that he posted because I have a beautiful, fully rebuilt 1901 6'2" Knabe that I love  and my piano tuner thought it was an awesome piano!  AND Clint is an upstanding individual who has honor and integrity and I'm so glad he posted here.  We are friends forever.  
Why would you try to deprive someone of a livelihood?  It's called Marketing and Advertising by any means?   WHy do you care?  I'm glad he posted!  I guess that's why people lurk in the shadows as guests, which I'm sure I'll be going that route in the near future.  Sorry to have posted "uesless" posts on your precious forum.  Arriverderci!
AND to think that I've been trying to figure out how to post a pic of my precious doggie for Littletune.  I guess pictures of doggies don't mix with poorly played piano uploads.  Okay!

[pianoplayjl]

I wasn't referring to Clint. He's a nice guy. I was referring to a guy called teddy1n who a few weeks ago I believe posted like 10 times and all of them said the same thing, to visit his website. If my memory serves they were reomved by Nils not long after. Another guy also advertised something about handbags which has NOTHING to do with pianos though it has something to do with NON pianos. Aren't threads meant for discussion? They are more interruptive of threads than I am.
OK Clint is ok to post stuff about his pianos but other people advertising handbags and stuff? I don't think so. SAY that advertising about pianos is allowed on PS. but not other things, as the rules say.

Are you trying to say that a little bit of personality isn't wanted here? 

No the more the better. I'm just saying advertising should be limited to piano related stuff.

JL