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Scriabin Etudes (Read 4062 times)

Offline chopiabin

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Scriabin Etudes
« on: September 06, 2004, 03:31:21 AM »
Hey guys, long time no post. How is everybody? My question is about  Scriabin's etudes in D# minor op.8#12 and C#minor op.42#5. These seem really difficult, but I really want a challenge. I was wondering if anyone has played both of these and could tell me which one is more difficult and could compare their difficulty to other repertoire. Thanks guys.

P.S. I am now attending Colgate University and was chosen by the piano department head to take private lessons with him - as you can tell I'm really excited.

Sheet music to download and print: Etudes by Scriabin



Offline thracozaag

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #1 on: September 06, 2004, 04:11:31 AM »
Quote
Hey guys, long time no post. How is everybody? My question is about  Scriabin's etudes in D# minor op.8#12 and C#minor op.42#5. These seem really difficult, but I really want a challenge. I was wondering if anyone has played both of these and could tell me which one is more difficult and could compare their difficulty to other repertoire. Thanks guys.

P.S. I am now attending Colgate University and was chosen by the piano department head to take private lessons with him - as you can tell I'm really excited.


8 #12 is tough; 42 #5 is damn near impossible.

koji (STSD)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline bachmaninov

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #2 on: September 06, 2004, 05:06:08 AM »
#12 has a killer left hand...

But it's my favorite Scriabin piece...

I've played it myself in alot of competitions...

--The left hand is the part which makes this piece a pain! There are alot of jumps... (Just make sure to accent the octaves that you need to ((Listen to Horowitz play it)) And to bring out the right hand melody... very powerful!)

Offline pianiststrongbad

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #3 on: September 06, 2004, 05:30:39 AM »
I played op. 8 no. 12 last year.  Once you memorize the left hand, it really isn't that bad.  Op 42 no. 5 though, is impossible in my opinion, with the exception of the immortals in this world.

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #4 on: September 06, 2004, 06:06:40 AM »
What pieces did you play before op.8#12?

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #5 on: September 07, 2004, 01:38:30 AM »
Yeah, I spent part of the day memorizing the first 2 pages of op.8#12 hands separate and it doesn't seem to be that bad once you can get the left hand to be completely instinctive.

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #6 on: September 07, 2004, 03:08:56 AM »
Well, the other day I sat down and did some work on 8/12.  The left hand is tricky, but once you have it really memorized, the piece becomes quite playable, and actually alot of fun.

However, to answer your question, I would definitely back up the concensus-op. 42 #5 is much harder than op. 8 #12.  On the scale of etude literature, these are fairly high up my version of the difficulty ladder-comparable to Rach's more difficult etudes tableaux.


Offline hodi

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 06:37:35 PM »
more opinions on scriabin etudes? and i mean all of them!

Offline dnephi

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 06:38:42 PM »
42-5 is awesome... and 8-12 is.  8-5 and 8-10 are decent.  I confess to not like the rest of them that much.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 07:38:36 PM »
42-5 is awesome... and 8-12 is.  8-5 and 8-10 are decent.  I confess to not like the rest of them that much.

What is this with op 42 no 5 ? It's very hard to play, especially if you want it to sound as music, but what is the appeal of it?  I think, it's one of Scriabin's worst pieces.  8)
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline phil13

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 07:50:13 PM »
What is this with op 42 no 5 ? It's very hard to play, especially if you want it to sound as music, but what is the appeal of it?  I think, it's one of Scriabin's worst pieces.  8)

You, sir, are dead to me.  :'(

Is it possible that you have just not heard a good recording of it? Op.42 No.5 is a great work!

Other gems in the sets:

Op.2 No.1
Op.8 No.2
Op.8 No.5
Op.8 No.8
Op.8 No.9
Op.8 No.11
Op.8 No.12
Op.42 No.1
Op.42 No.4
Op.42 No.8
Op.65 No.3

The rest are either okay or not as much to my taste, but along with 42-5, these ones are fantastic!

Phil


Offline PaulNaud

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 07:56:46 PM »
Quote
My question is about  Scriabin's etudes in D# minor op.8#12 and C#minor op.42#5.

First, Horowitz plays them both. You should listen to his performance. He plays with such an ease that it's almost unbelievable to think that these Etudes are such difficult pieces.
Second, there is no other way than to start to play very slowly, each hand separate. It's going to take a lot of time before playing your hands together.
Third: BE PATIENT!!!!!!
Paul
Music soothes the savage breast.
Paul Naud

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #12 on: March 07, 2007, 08:07:50 PM »
You, sir, are dead to me.  :'(


 ;D ;D ;D

Quote
Is it possible that you have just not heard a good recording of it? Op.42 No.5 is a great work!

Exactly, I never heard a convincing recording of op.42 no5
And when I play it myself, it doesn't convince me either.

Why do you think, it's a great work?
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline phil13

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #13 on: March 07, 2007, 10:59:59 PM »
It's furious, fiery and showy on one side. And yet, on the other hand there is something utterly captivating about the almost early Romantic harmonies he uses in the middle section and the coda. The ending, especially, is beautiful.

It's one of my favorite works by Scriabin.

Phil

Offline pita bread

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 03:05:27 AM »
The inner voices in 42/5 are deathly.

I personally prefer 42/6, but both are still my favorite Scriabin etudes.

Offline infectedmushroom

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #15 on: March 08, 2007, 06:17:41 AM »
Besided the Etudes mentioned above, I also really like Op. 8 No. 7 and Op. 8 No. 11



For a good recording of Op. 42 No. 5; listen to the performance by Piers Lane. Download it here:

http://download.yousendit.com/501F1044592808FD

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #16 on: March 08, 2007, 06:18:32 AM »
@pita bread

Agreed, op 42 no 6 is amazing!

I hope, I will be able to play it (in reasonable tempo) some day  ???
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline nicco

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #17 on: March 08, 2007, 08:46:17 AM »
Besided the Etudes mentioned above, I also really like Op. 8 No. 7 and Op. 8 No. 11



For a good recording of Op. 42 No. 5; listen to the performance by Piers Lane. Download it here:

http://download.yousendit.com/501F1044592808FD

Very good Piers Lane recording, but i possibly like this one even better. Pianist is Chitose Okashiro, who recorded the whole set.

http://download.yousendit.com/663749F300FB1CC2
"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline pita bread

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #18 on: March 08, 2007, 08:47:57 AM »
For a good recording of Op. 42 No. 5; listen to the performance by Piers Lane. Download it here:

http://download.yousendit.com/501F1044592808FD

Piers Lane's performance is merely "good." If you want something phenomenal, listen to Horowitz's or Gavrilov's.

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #19 on: March 08, 2007, 09:36:01 AM »
Thank you, infectedmushroom and nico, for the interesting samples of 42/5

If I would play this etude (who knows... sometimes...), I would play it completely different (especially much slower  ;D ), but I understand the overall shape of the piece much better now. I have the tendency to take much more care on the details, so this was a good alternate experience.
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline hodi

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #20 on: March 09, 2007, 09:22:08 PM »
more comment on OTHER ETUDES??
difficult of other etudes than 12-8 and 42-5 ???

Offline rob47

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #21 on: March 09, 2007, 09:39:55 PM »
;D ;D ;D

Exactly, I never heard a convincing recording of op.42 no5
And when I play it myself, it doesn't convince me either.

Why do you think, it's a great work?

42-5 never cohered until i saw the demonic Wee video (e60m5)

its a really good performance...you can find it f you search the bowels of 88 websites

actually it possibly on youtube also

check it. Bo!
"Phenomenon 1 is me"
-Alexis Weissenberg

Offline sevencircles

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #22 on: March 09, 2007, 09:45:41 PM »
I donīt know if you heard the name Shawn Lane.

He was a friend of mine and a cultfigure among fans of virtuoso guitar playing (not classical)

He planned to record electric guitartranscriptions  of a couple of the toughest Scriabin etudes for electric guitar when he left this world in 2003.

He loved them more then anything else he ever heard and he learned to play all the parts but never recorded them

Some clips of an instruction video he did can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f2Jq10j1ms


Offline hodi

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #23 on: March 09, 2007, 10:24:58 PM »
OK NOW I'M ANGRY

I ASKED TONES OF TIME FROM USERS HERE TO TELL ABOUT THE OTHERS ETUDES

BUT IT SEEMS THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER ETUDES OF SCRIABIN ETUDES EXCEPT FOR 12-8 AND 42-5
?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!!!

DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Offline rob47

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #24 on: March 09, 2007, 10:41:17 PM »
OK NOW I'M ANGRY

I ASKED TONES OF TIME FROM USERS HERE TO TELL ABOUT THE OTHERS ETUDES

BUT IT SEEMS THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER ETUDES OF SCRIABIN ETUDES EXCEPT FOR 12-8 AND 42-5
?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!!!

DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHH



Hahaha remeber when you were high on K (or something) and you made that random post?

You were angry then too.........angry at squirrels i think.

"Phenomenon 1 is me"
-Alexis Weissenberg

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #25 on: March 09, 2007, 11:24:58 PM »

I ASKED TONES OF TIME FROM USERS HERE TO TELL ABOUT THE OTHERS ETUDES

BUT IT SEEMS THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER ETUDES OF SCRIABIN ETUDES EXCEPT FOR 12-8 AND 42-5



Seems that you tend to get in rage very fast

that's a perfect condition to play Scriabin well  ;D


So, to your question: all etudes of op.8 (except No.12) are not that difficult and worth playing them. It's wonderful music, and besides that, you train the movement of your arms and fingers with these etudes very well. It is not necessary to play them extreme fast, but extreme expressive and sensible.
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline wervel

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #26 on: March 11, 2007, 04:16:57 PM »
I agree that the 42-6 is truely amazing (and very much less known than 42-5), however, in my opinion, not less difficult to play than 42-5 (which perhaps has something too mechanical about it?).

Just one question: has anyone here ever tried to avoid the more unpleasant left hand upward jumps in the 12-8 by redistributing the notes (take them with the right hand) over the two hands?
Works fine for me.
However, 42-5 and 42-6 are very much impossible for me. Tough left hand score for the 42-8 too (I have heard much faking of the left hand in 42-8, even by the very best of pianists).

Offline phil13

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #27 on: March 11, 2007, 04:26:48 PM »
Just one question: has anyone here ever tried to avoid the more unpleasant left hand upward jumps in the 12-8 by redistributing the notes (take them with the right hand) over the two hands?
Works fine for me.

ABSOLUTELY.

I redistribute many of them- the RH is already there, so why not? Just be sure to make a very distinct difference between how you play the RH notes and how you play the re-distributed notes played by the RH. It should still sound like the accompaniment.

Phil

Offline pita bread

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #28 on: March 11, 2007, 08:50:29 PM »
However, 42-5 and 42-6 are very much impossible for me. Tough left hand score for the 42-8 too (I have heard much faking of the left hand in 42-8, even by the very best of pianists).

Those three etudes all have deranged left hand configurations.

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #29 on: March 12, 2007, 10:09:44 PM »
Eh?  I always though 65-1 was the hardest o.O


Anyways I like hardly any of the Scriabin Etudes actually XD

Offline phil13

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #30 on: March 12, 2007, 10:31:58 PM »
Eh? I always though 65-1 was the hardest o.O


It is. But nobody was commenting on which one was the hardest of them all...

>.>

Wait a minute, don't you always get fed up with 'difficulty' threads? Why would you even start this argument?

Phil


Offline counterpoint

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Re: Scriabin Etudes
«Reply #31 on: March 12, 2007, 10:42:24 PM »
Eh?  I always though 65-1 was the hardest o.O

Why should op. 65-1 be the hardest? It's one of the easies in my opinion, if the hands are big enough. There are almost no interpretation problems. Play the notes as written on the paper, that's it.
If it doesn't work - try something different!