Composers who didn't totally justify their talent?

[starstruck5]

I think it is safe to assume that Beethoven on his deathbed would have been pretty happy with his achievements - Mozart, Schubert and Chopin also -despite the fact they died so young.

I have been thinking though that there are a few composers who didn't really justify the talent they had. I don't mean in the sense that they didn't contribute something interesting and brilliant in their lifetimes, obviously, it's just that they could have done so much more.

I think this is most true of Mussorsgy. His Pictures could only have been written by a genius - and yet what else did he write of true greatness - Night on a Bear Mountain perhaps - Gopak - but what else?  

I would add Satie to this list and also Blumenfeld.  Maybe even Rachmaninoff!

Can't think of too many more, but there must be a few!

[opus10no2]

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDH55309&vw=dc

...the majority of Liadov's canon has fallen into obscurity, not least because the composer dedicated his life to indolence and seems to have been utterly without ambition either for himself or for his music.

[drkilroy]

I think Debussy and Gershwin. Gershwin could probably live twice as long as he did, so perhaps he could write more of his wonderful pieces (though I prefer his orchestral pieces to his piano works).

Best regards, Dr

[perfect_pitch]

No. 1 - Steve Reich... 

[ahinton]

I think it is safe to assume that Beethoven on his deathbed would have been pretty happy with his achievements - Mozart, Schubert and Chopin also -despite the fact they died so young.

I have been thinking though that there are a few composers who didn't really justify the talent they had. I don't mean in the sense that they didn't contribute something interesting and brilliant in their lifetimes, obviously, it's just that they could have done so much more.

I think this is most true of Mussorsgy.

Who he? Any relation to Musorgsky, by chance?

His Pictures could only have been written by a genius - and yet what else did he write of true greatness - Night on a Bear Mountain perhaps - Gopak - but what else?

I didn't know that he'd written anything about bears, on or off mountains; if you can't do better than this, then maybe go pack...

I would add Satie to this list and also Blumenfeld.  Maybe even Rachmaninoff!

Can't think of too many more, but there must be a few!

You go add whomsoever you wish to your list - we'll try not to worry about this! - but however much anyone here might disagree with any of your choices, do at least try to spell them and their works in a recognisable manner - they deserve at least that, after all...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I was thinking of the Scottish Composer Cecil Coles.

If he had not been shot dead by a German sniper during World War One, I think he would be better known today, judging by the one recording I have heard.

Thal

[ahinton]

I was thinking of the Scottish Composer Cecil Coles.

If he had not been shot dead by a German sniper during World War One, I think he would be better known today, judging by the one recording I have heard.

A fate not dissimilar to those that befell the French composer Albéric Magnard near the beginning of WWI and the Austrian Anton Webern near the close of WWII, each of whose premature loss of life denied us quite a lot more music.

Best,

Alistair

[haydnseeker]

Grainger

[starlady]

When I listen to Mussorgsky*, I actually get angry at him for drinking himself into early decline and death, and depriving us of his beautiful music.

--s.


* the spelling on the nearest recording of Boris Gudonov

[jalexh]

Mendelssohn produced a fair few stunning works but not enough of them considering his terrifying talent.

As for Mussorgsky, I agree he had a lot more to give but in addition to the works you listed Boris Godunov and his three song cycles The Nursery, Sunless and Songs and Dances of Death are very impressive.

[aintgotnorhythm]

Rossini and Sibelius had long latter portions of their lives in which they surely could have composed something more? From a different genre, Lennon/McCartney post-Beatles.

[opusopus]

Rachmaninov.
I feel that alot of his works are at polar opposites. Up there are his Piano Concerti, Second Symphony, opus 23 preludes, Pag Rhapsody, Isle of the Dead. While his Opera, 3rd symphony, his songs opus 34 and most of his Etude Tableax are below par for sure. Certainly not a consistent composer but then again not many are!

[starstruck5]

Who he? Any relation to Musorgsky, by chance?
I didn't know that he'd written anything about bears, on or off mountains; if you can't do better than this, then maybe go pack...
You go add whomsoever you wish to your list - we'll try not to worry about this! - but however much anyone here might disagree with any of your choices, do at least try to spell them and their works in a recognisable manner - they deserve at least that, after all...

Best,

Alistair

Oops Alistair - I just couldn't be bothered to check the spelling to be honest - and I always think of the Night Piece as on a 'Bear Mountain' - for some reason - I have seen it written as Night on a Bald Mountain ! I dislike that.  I think it underlines how much the Russian geezer fell short of his talent if I can't remember his titles! I don't mind being thought of as the class dunce anyhow  -I just like being under- estimated.

Liadov is an interesting one - A few  here I had never heard of - so thanks for bringing these composers to my attention! This was the whole point of starting this thread - so thanks.

[Petter]

Sckrjabin

[sevencircles]

Rachmaninov.
I feel that alot of his works are at polar opposites. Up there are his Piano Concerti, Second Symphony, opus 23 preludes, Pag Rhapsody, Isle of the Dead. While his Opera, 3rd symphony, his songs opus 34 and most of his Etude Tableax are below par for sure. Certainly not a consistent composer but then again not many are!

He had a long period of depression and was practicing at the piano all day long from 1915 until his death.

It´s safe to say that he didn´t work very hard on the works he did after 1915

He was for sure a better pianist then composer anyway I think.

[ahinton]

He had a long period of depression and was practicing at the piano all day long from 1915 until his death.

It´s safe to say that he didn´t work very hard on the works he did after 1915

He was for sure a better pianist then composer anyway I think.

Given that he was one of the past century's finest pianists, that might at first seem a reasonable assumption were it not for the fact that the painfully few works that he wrote after leaving his native Russia show the very opposite of a waning of his compositional powers.

Best,

Alistair

[opusopus]

Given that he was one of the past century's finest pianists, that might at first seem a reasonable assumption were it not for the fact that the painfully few works that he wrote after leaving his native Russia show the very opposite of a waning of his compositional powers.

such as??

[kevinr]

I think WF Bach would definitely fall into this category.

JS's eldest son. Being the eldest son of a famous father often brings up issues and especially so if your dad happens to be one of the greatest men whoever lived.

WF is often regarded as the wayward genius of the Bach family who had formidable gifts but squandered them.

His first published works were to be a set of 6 keyboard sonatas. However the first one he produced (F3 in D) was a publishing disaster. According to Forkel, no one bought it because no one could play it. However Hubert Parry, writing in an early (first?) edition of the Grove dictionary, described it as the greatest keyboard sonata before Beethoven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycGWj6-rbOE&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL7AEE522B7EDC68A6


(F3 starts at 24:00 minutes in.)

His polonaises are astonishing works.

[gep]

When I listen to Mussorgsky*, I actually get angry at him for drinking himself into early decline and death, and depriving us of his beautiful music.

--s.


* the spelling on the nearest recording of Boris Gudonov

The transliteration of Russian names is always a bit tricky, but I think I've seen the double-s (as in Mussorgsky) the most. The Russian original spells Мŭсoргский, so Musorgsky seems the most logical, though. Perhaps the -ss- makes the pronounciation more close to the Russian?
It is indeed a pity he didn't finish more of his opera's, and a lot of what he did finish was then 'improved' by others (such as the Boris Godunov).

I for one wouldn't have minded if Taneyev had lived to ripe old age, and given us a few more of his wonderful chamberworks. The Piano Quintet op. 30 is surely a masterpiece!

And as for  composers who didn't (or couldn't) justify their talents and Russia, think of all the talent that has gone to waste in the Soviet Union between 1917 and 1990. Think about Nosyrev, to name just one.

McCartney post-Beatles

Surely not the "McCartney goes classic". I've heard a thing or two, and, err, yuk!

A fate not dissimilar to those that befell the French composer Albéric Magnard near the beginning of WWI and the Austrian Anton Webern near the close of WWII, each of whose premature loss of life denied us quite a lot more music.

Yes, had Webern lived for, say, 30 more years, we would have had perhaps a whole 40 minutes more music! I fear I'm not much of a Webern fan (my loss, for sure). Still, a great pity that smoking for him turned out to be very lethal indeed! As for Magnard, I would indeed have liked to find out where he might have travelled, had he lived longer.

And I would have loved to learn the orchestral music of Alkan. A few symphonies, say...

all best,
Gijs

[starlady]

The transliteration of Russian names is always a bit tricky, but I think I've seen the double-s (as in Mussorgsky) the most. The Russian original spells Мŭсoргский, so Musorgsky seems the most logical, though. Perhaps the -ss- makes the pronounciation more close to the Russian?
It is indeed a pity he didn't finish more of his opera's, and a lot of what he did finish was then 'improved' by others (such as the Boris Godunov).

"1872 Boris",  pure Moussorgsky from before Rimsky-Korsakov got his hands on it, has recently become the fashionable version in the opera world.  It is very beautiful and very different from the R-K version. Check it out!

--s.

[orangesodaking]

Saint-Saens.