The Meaning of Life

[donjuan]

Greetings my friends,

You are all musicians like me, and I believe music brings you closer to yourself.  Think about it- It is impossible for a bad person to be a great musician.  I hope you are all in touch with yourselves because I dream of creating something unique and beautiful between strangers all around the world.

What is the meaning of life?  I hope we can keep religion away from this thread and have individuals answer this highly intimite question based on experiences and thought, rather than knowledge and learnedness.--> We need to be more primal in our beliefs.  Think as neanderthals, communicate in english.  People who have been with this forum long enough to know me know I call things as I see them- I dont have faith in anything or really, anyone.  This cynical attitude of mine subconciously sickens me everyday and closes off all ideas.  I yearn for the warmth of personal connections, and yet I feel as though I cannot express myself too deeply in person so I choose a forum of intelligent persons to confide in.  

I am young, and wish to understand not only our world, but the whole everything- Imagine beyond the borders of the universe- from other people's perspective.

Why do you think you are here?  What have you learned in your life so far?  What do you hope to learn and experience before you die and return carbon atoms to the earth?-> I dont want your personal beliefs you have picked up over the years to die with you, so I can come up with my own conclusions and die with them- NO!  Help the world progress- We have multitudes of people in a wide variety of countries here- There must be some kind of universal bond between us because we are all humans with brains and the capacity to learn and share.

I hope you all dont view me as a hippy because of this thing I started.

donjuan      

[cellodude]

Greetings my friends,

...
What is the meaning of life?  I hope we can keep religion away from this thread and have individuals answer this highly intimite question based on experiences and thought, rather than knowledge and learnedness.--> We need to be more primal in our beliefs.
...
donjuan      

Hmmm... What if based on the experiences and thoughts of some people on this forum the answer is in ...



[tadaaaa...]
yes you guessed it, religion? Are you not going to listen then? I'm not trying to answer your question (yet), just pointing out that asking a question and then saying I don't like to hear this or that as the answer is a self-defeating way of getting info on a particular subject, don't you think?

After you've thrown out a question consider everything that comes back whether you agree with them or not, you might just learn something new!

TTFN (Ta Ta For Now),

dennis lee

[bernhard]

It is impossible for a bad person to be a great musician.       

Er…

Gesualdo was a great musician, and also a murderer (and much more besides). Many other great musicians were thoroughly nasty pieces of work.

As for the meaning of life, it has already been answered (Douglas Adams: “The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy): “The answer is 42”.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ChristmasCarol]

At the ripe ole age of 58, I have come to a place more and more of a sacred reverence for questions, and less and less of a need for spending time on answers.  So, I like your question and frankly enjoy asking myself such questions just about constantly.  My philosophy has become that of "question everything".  Which brings me to a standard that is at the core of every such discussion.  We humans/musicians seek comfort, significance, relevence, etc in just about every waking moment.  That's why, I'm convinced I love teaching music so darn much.  Participating with others in their quest for these things is a blast.  And... you don't have to sweat religion as a topic coming from me... ever .  Heck, I've been found too radical for Unitarians to take.

[mtmccarthy]

pieces of work.

As for the meaning of life, it has already been answered (Douglas Adams: “The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy): “The answer is 42”.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

But... what is the question?

(Ok, I'll shut up now.)

[Daevren]

As for the meaning of life, it has already been answered (Douglas Adams: “The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy): “The answer is 42”.

Live does not have a meaning, you can give it purpose yourself.

[liszmaninopin]

Based upon my short experience in life, life doesn't have meaning beyond what you give it.

[janice]

What is the meaning of life?  I hope we can keep religion away from this thread ...    

Ok, I will keep religion away from this thread.  You have a choice whether you want to read this or not.  I'm not "pushing" anything on you and I'm not out to change you or anybody here.  I've realized a long time ago that I (Janice) am powerless to "change" anybody, so I'm not trying to "change" anyone.  But ONLY JESUS  can change someone.  God is good.  Life is not.  If this life is all there is--if everything goes black when we die and that is all there is--then man, life really sucks and God is NOT good.  But you were made for eternity, Donjuan.  God wants YOU with Him for eternity.Yeah, we can find fun and happiness and even (what we think is ) fulfillment, but we will never find true MEANING in life apart from Christ.  You can try all you want.  But you will always have this void in your life.  By reading your post, I see that you are going out of your way to try to deny God.  That's ok, God is patient.  But those who deny the God of the Bible realize their emptiness when confronted with the truth.

BTW--I DID keep religion away from this thread.  Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship.

[chopiabin]

I do not believe there is meaning in life beyond what you give it. I do NOT feel a void in my life, and yes, one CAN change one's life without the help of a 2000 year old hippie from a tiny area in the Middle-East.

[ChristmasCarol]

Ok, I will keep religion away from this thread.  You have a choice whether you want to read this or not.  I'm not "pushing" anything on you and I'm not out to change you or anybody here.  I've realized a long time ago that I (Janice) am powerless to "change" anybody, so I'm not trying to "change" anyone.  But ONLY JESUS  can change someone.  God is good.  Life is not.  If this life is all there is--if everything goes black when we die and that is all there is--then man, life really sucks and God is NOT good.  But you were made for eternity, Donjuan.  God wants YOU with Him for eternity.Yeah, we can find fun and happiness and even (what we think is ) fulfillment, but we will never find true MEANING in life apart from Christ.  You can try all you want.  But you will always have this void in your life.  By reading your post, I see that you are going out of your way to try to deny God.  That's ok, God is patient.  But those who deny the God of the Bible realize their emptiness when confronted with the truth.

BTW--I DID keep religion away from this thread.  Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship.

Do you have any idea whatsoever how offensive, limited, disappointing, and insensitive this post is!

[janice]

Do you have any idea whatsoever how offensive, limited, disappointing, and insensitive this post is!

How so?

[JK]

Surely it is impossible to have a discussion about the meaning of life (a rather pointless exercise in itself!) without including religion in some way. A lot of people want to know why we are here, what purpose do we have here, where we came from and where we are going. This is why scientists are constantly exploring the universe further, and why some physicists are trying to find an "equation for everything". They all want to understand as much as possible the meaning of our existence. This is possibly what distinguishes animals from humans, animals seem (although there is no way of telling for sure) not to realise that they are alive and they don't question their existence, their primary concern is on survival, on reproducing and on not getting eaten! These are natural instincts that we humans have as well, instincts such as survival of course are not seen so often due to the comparative lives of luxary that the majority of humans lead.

So what is my point? Well, as I see it scientists spend a lot of their time trying to understand how we were created, why we are here, was it as a result of an accident? In actual fact surely the answer of all these questions, why we are here, where we came from and where we are going can be found in religion. Every religion that I can think of answers these questions in similar ways, is it not just possible that the answer to the great question of what is the meaning of life is actually staring us in the face? Of course people say that it is hard to believe but I find science can be just as hard to believe, just take a look at some of the equations that they come out with, only a select number of people can actually understand and interpret them, religion can be understood by all.

I am not a very religious person, I do believe in God, but I do not go to church. I'm not trying to make people more religious but just trying to show the logic behind my beliefs. I think that very often the reason why people question religion is maybe because they don't want to find out why, or because it is an all too simple explanation, an explanation for which there at first appears to be no scientific eveidence. But why does the meaning of life have to be complicated? Maybe the meaning of life is partly for us to question our existence maybe the meaning of life is actually to ask ourselves "what is the meaning of life"?

Now I've kinda lost track of what I was trying to say and I think I may have started rambling a bit, so I'll stop and come back when I can think straight!

[Tash]

if the aim of life was to be as moronic as possible, i think most of the population has succeeded.

[donjuan]

wow- so many replies!  but that's good!  We are sharing ideas and some are ready to throw stuff at eachother!! Perfect!!

I think the main reason why I started this topic is because of what I read in my biology textbook on Phineas Gage.  He was involved in a very serious brain accident where a tamping iron went right through his head.  He survived, but the damage cut off certain circuits in his brain- circuits that made him responsible, self-consious, and in control of his emotions.  After the accident, he would be like a child- throwing tantrums, lacking responsibility, having unimaginable fun- the highs and lows- If he saw something that made him happy, he laughed and danced.  If he saw something sad, he would cry.  What I find even more interesting-  He even developed a love for animals and worked in stables to care for the horses.  He died 12 years after the accident.

What I was beginning to wonder is if he was happier before or after the accident, in his own mind.  If one of my friends does something stupid I find funny, I will avoid laughing- resist with all my might, the urge to laugh at him for the fear of what he may think of me.  Gage would have laughed his head off, and got more out of his life than I would.  

Gage's newfound innocence is almost what I would love- He was no longer so serious and organized, but would indulge in his interests, like animals.  I am beginning to think he led a fuller life when he was free of embarassment and critisism from others.

SO how does this tie in to the meaning of Life?  I dont know what the meaning of life is, but I think I should do everything I can to experience everything before I die.  I only live once- I am worms meat when I die!  Nothing else!!- The reason why I wanted to keep religion out of this is because it was designed by humans as a possible (ha!) explanation of their own existence.  The big bang theory may not be the right answer, but it certainly makes more logical sense than christianity which, Janice, IS a religion-> You could say it is a relationship, but with who?  or what?  If no one had told you about Jesus, do you think you would have logically deduced him to be so special?  It is merely rumours and popularity that make people worship other people.  We are all the same, face it.  Jesus is no different from you or me.  How do you know he is the son of god?  How do you know the "virgin Mary" wasnt just raped one night, but too embarrassed to say anything about it, so she cooked up the most unlikely event because she knew people would believe it, being the most unlikely event!

donjuan    

[blindmouth]

If one of my friends does something stupid I find funny, I will avoid laughing- resist with all my might, the urge to laugh at him for the fear of what he may think of me.  

you sound as though you are shy and sensitive of others' remarks.

I am beginning to think he led a fuller life when he was free of embarassment and critisism from others.

SO how does this tie in to the meaning of Life?  I dont know what the meaning of life is, but I think I should do everything I can to experience everything before I die.  I only live once- I am worms meat when I die!  Nothing else!!- The reason why I wanted to keep religion out of this is because it was designed by humans as a possible (ha!) explanation of their own existence.  

technically, what you are talking about is religion. you see, religion isnt just about an explanation of existence. religion is also about what one believes and the pursuit of those beliefs.

for example, your belief that you should live life to the fullest because of its finitude; as long as you pursue that idea, then you have a religion. another example: if you decide that life is pointless and that the purpose of life is to  exist without care, then you have a religion (a nihilistic one anyways.) my point is that religion without an external being is still religion. you might not believe me but check out the definition of "religion" in a dictionary.

What ive said is a paradox. regardless its true: having faith in nothing "is" having faith in something, just a pessimistic one.

[blindmouth]

i forgot to put my interpretation on the 'meaning of life'. im kinda inclined to the buddhist interpretation- life is pointless and you must transcend into nothing.

on the other hand, im still heavily influenced by my christian roots-God validates my actions as good and bad.

for those who dont believe in an external being,  might i suggest the following- those who exist in life are judged for the utility towards society.

of course there are plenty of flaws in these beliefs, but ive never said that my beliefs are the law, natural or supernatural...

[donjuan]

hmmm ill think about that..

[DarkWind]

What is the meaning of life?

It was a movie made by the great people of Monty Python.

[donjuan]

It was a movie made by the great people of Monty Python.

Every sperm is sacred..

[bernhard]

I think I should do everything I can to experience everything before I die.  

If so, you better organise your time and follow a tight schedule.

And are you sure you want to experience “everything”? There is a lot of stuff out there that you be better off avoiding…

[bernhard]

technically, what you are talking about is religion. you see, religion isnt just about an explanation of existence. religion is also about what one believes and the pursuit of those beliefs.  

Actually, his question is more accurately placed in the field of philosophy. That there are religious answers I have no doubt.

Here is the difference:

A philosopher is a blind guy, in a pitch-black room, looking for a black cat that is not there. A theologian is the guy shouting: “I found it! I found it! I found it!”

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[blindmouth]

Actually, his question is more accurately placed in the field of philosophy. That there are religious answers I have no doubt.

i agree with you on the part of his question. but donjuan's answer; that was what i was addressing.

Here is the difference:

A philosopher is a blind guy, in a pitch-black room, looking for a black cat that is not there. A theologian is the guy shouting: “I found it! I found it! I found it!”

if im taking your example wrong, correct me. i dont agree with the first part of your statement. philosophers do dwell into important topics that are relevant human issues: free will vs determinism, existence of evil, etc... sometimes they do get intangled in semantical/ logical technicalities (which is why i decided not to major in philosophy). besides, being blind isnt a bad thing: they say your other senses are increased when you lose one right?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

im a ignant dope. what does one mean when saying "best wishes"? ive never really understood whether that meant you get whats best for you or you get what you want.

[Egghead]

philosophers do dwell into important topics that are relevant human issues: free will vs determinism, existence of evil, etc... sometimes they do get intangled in semantical/ logical technicalities (which is why i decided not to major in philosophy). besides, being blind isnt a bad thing: they say your other senses are increased when you lose one right?

yes, they dwell into these topics and get all engtangled (and for some reason, paid, as well). More often than not, the questions are already meaningless.
I do not see anything good ever coming of this except for three things: 1) it helps some people to realise that it is more constructice NOT to major in philosophy. 2) some of these people major in science or become novelists 3) some of these scientists/novelists contribute to our insight into human nature.

Egghead
p.s. yes, you go blind and you start hearing grasshoppers everywhere.  

[Egghead]

If so, you better organise your time and follow a tight schedule.

How is donjuan going to experience intense boredom then?

[blindmouth]

yes, they dwell into these topics and get all engtangled (and for some reason, paid, as well). More often than not, the questions are already meaningless.

i dont agree with this argument at all. for starters, the questions raised in philosophy are very complicated ones. i surely doubt that the question 'whether we have free will or not' is unimportant. maybe your thinking, "who cares if i can choose to do what i do or not?" but the question is addressing the responsibility of what you do! responsibility, thats the primary concern of the free will debate. is a man who was brutally abused as a child responsible for what he has done as an adult? or how about if the man was mentally handicapped?

as you can see, these questions show just a few of the intricacies that make the problem much harder to solve. these problems have been pondered over for a long time, perhaps since the beginning of civilization. despite their difficulty, these philosophical inquiries should be pursued; like you said, they have led to new avenues of knowledge.

it helps some people to realise that it is more constructice NOT to major in philosophy.

and these questions help some people to show philosophy's constructiveness! i liken philosophy to other majors in the research field (meaning physicists, historians, mathematicians etc...) They study something for the benefit of others.

sorry for being a bit verbose.  i didnt think that an post unrelated to scriabin's works would interest me as much as this one has!

[bernhard]

im a ignant dope. what does one mean when saying "best wishes"? ive never really understood whether that meant you get whats best for you or you get what you want.

As Vitor Borge once put it:

“It is your language, I am just trying to use it!”

In any case:

Best wishes: An expression of hope for someone’s future happiness. (Oxford Dictionary).

Ain’t I nice?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Suddenly, I remembered this old song:


“Isn’t life beautiful
Isn’t life gay
Isn’t life the perfect thing
To pass the time away.”

(Mason Williams – “Life Song”)


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[donjuan]

I think Bernhard here understands what I am trying to get at the most.  I really like that blind man looking for the dark cat story!

Egghead, I dont mind intense boredom- it really REALLY stimulates creative thinking- you will become entertained with such small things like a piece of paper you fold into an airplane, or an elastic band you shoot across the room and work on accuracy.. --> You will never be entertained by such things if you have a job somewhere, or have video games at hand.

donjuan

[super_ardua]

I think Bernhard here understands what I am trying to get at the most.  I really like that blind man looking for the dark cat story!

Egghead, I dont mind intense boredom- it really REALLY stimulates creative thinking- you will become entertained with such small things like a piece of paper you fold into an airplane, or an elastic band you shoot across the room and work on accuracy.. --> You will never be entertained by such things if you have a job somewhere, or have video games at hand.

donjuan

Again,  I must say the best piano I've played came after staring at my watch for an hour

[Piazzo22]

Everything comes from other thing.
But when we notice that there is no such thing as the first thing that existed ever (because the first thing has to come from something) ... ohhh, then anything can happen, our little rational mind can´t do with that...  

[Piazzo22]

life is pointless and you must transcend into nothing.

But to think that, you have to first answer the question of how did it all begin... but wait... it did never begin.
We can´t answer anything because we think of everything as a consequence. So, there is no begining. And then we can´t know anything about life and its sense.

[picdude]

Although we will always ask ourselves why we are here, I think that Wittgensein had a point when he referred to the inadequacies of language, and said "what we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence"

[xvimbi]

The meaning of life is to ponder about the meaning of life.

I believe its a curse inflicted by some higher being, because some human in the past did something bad.

[Spatula]

if the aim of life was to be as moronic as possible, i think most of the population has succeeded.

And the leader of them all: George "Dubya" Bush

[Spatula]

Best wishes: An expression of hope for someone’s future happiness. (Oxford Dictionary).

Ain’t I nice?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Oh, ain't he a sweetie pie?  

[DanDaMan]

The reason why I wanted to keep religion out of this is because it was designed by humans as a possible (ha!) explanation of their own existence.

Well, what if religion wasn't designed by humans? Why not consider the possibility that Christianity might be inspired by God? Cause if it is, wow. That's some pretty heavy stuff.

If you're on a quest to search for the meaning of life, you had better think of all the possibilities, shouldn't we?

christianity which, Janice, IS a religion-> You could say it is a relationship, but with who?  or what?  If no one had told you about Jesus, do you think you would have logically deduced him to be so special?  It is merely rumours and popularity that make people worship other people.  We are all the same, face it.  Jesus is no different from you or me.

A relationship with who? With God. If no one told me about Jesus, I think I'd still consider him quite special since he after all died for me. And even if you don't believe that, I'd still consider someone who sincerely thought that he was dieing for me. No Jesus was not just an ordinary person. First of all, he only turned the world upside-down. He fulfilled over 300 prophesies. He was brilliant. You can't say that the things he said were bad. His wisdom was immense. He predicted the destruction of the temple, which happened precisely when he died on the cross. A missing body that was guarded by hard-core roman soldiers? Eyewitness accounts of miracles.

If Jesus was an ordinary man, I sure wish I was one, cause I surly am not one. You don't have to believe that he was the son of God to realize that he was an extraordinary person. Cause he sure wasn't ordinary.

How do you know he is the son of god?  How do you know the "virgin Mary" wasnt just raped one night, but too embarrassed to say anything about it, so she cooked up the most unlikely event because she knew people would believe it, being the most unlikely event!

His perfect completion of every prophesy is proof enough for me that he is the Son of God. And also, (im sure there's more about mary than i know other than this) if Jesus is the Son of God, and he rose from the dead, why couldn't his conception be a miracle?

You say not to talk about religion. If that's what you want. fine. Janice and others including myself won't anymore. But that doesn't mean you should just start talking down to us, when you say we can't reply. If we're silent, you better be also. I'm just asking for a little peace treaty, since you once asked for it 30 or so posts ago. I'm not a jerk lol. I hope we all agree to keep this as a draw?

[donjuan]

Thats fine Dan, you can believe whatever you want.  I dont have intentions to talk down to anyone, as you put it.  I am merely trying to find reasons for things.  I maintain the opinion that the belief in God is created by humans, and absolutely not the other way around, because how could we possibly understand something like that?  If you have a pond outside, and throw in floating food for the goldfish, do you think the goldfish worship you?  See you as a supreme being with infinate powers to breed life?  They might, we dont know..  If I were one of the goldfish, how would the others react to my thought that maybe this god that feeds us everyday would have just bought the food from a pet store.  I will get shunned by the believers.  My ultimate message is to be critical in your beliefs and not take everything you hear so seriously.  Think on your own, or else you find your self believing in something like a religion, similar to how Hitler got so many followers.  He was able to indoctrinate so many people into believing he was the savior of Germany.  In reality, all he did was get the country out of the depression by getting people to work on the autobahn.  Well, do you think it may be possible Jesus got famous the same way- if enough people saw him do a miracle, but it really was just a coincedence.

I hope you dont think I am comparing Jesus to Hitler here, because that is really not my goal!  

Just have fun in life and enjoy criticising ideas using your powerful reasoning skills.
peace
donjuan

[DanDaMan]

Well, do you think it may be possible Jesus got famous the same way- if enough people saw him do a miracle, but it really was just a coincedence.

I hope you dont think I am comparing Jesus to Hitler here, because that is really not my goal!

Naw I know u weren't comparing them. Don't worry bout me I won't blow up over things and make them more than they were intended.

And it's not like I blindly follow something without any proof. The proof for my beliefs may not be considered proof by you and others, but only because you haven't lived my life and gone through the things God has shown me. It's all too beautiful and perfect to be coincidence.

Let me know if you don't understand me.

[donjuan]

I think, because I am not you, it is impossible for me to understand you.  If you believe it gives you hope and purpose, sure- go for it!  Enjoy your life-I just ask the question "why" too much.  Now I understand religious people will not be changed, and people like me will not likely be changed either.
donjuan  

[Spatula]

I wanna check out this EBONICS bible, I mean that has to be the hippest thing.

So its kinda like "And God, that dude in space, said, "Bring on da lights on ma house!", and there was light...and God said "Word yo! It's Goooood!"

And just before Jesus ascended into heaven, his last few words to his disciplies where "G2G, BRB in 2 mils or so!"

And the disciples said..."Amen...word"

[DanDaMan]

Ha!! I wanna see that Bible! lol.