Liszt Consolation No. 3 Project

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks.  Looks like I'm a bit confused with the chords and key of the piece.  Why can't you use the pedal for 2 part harmony?

[ajspiano]

depends how you define 'part' but I was referring to the idea that if you held down the pedal you would very soon find that more than 2 notes would be sounding at the same time.

Looks like I'm a bit confused with the chords and key of the piece

Thats why its important to do this kind of thing in multiple keys, and transpose a lot. It dramatically increases your understanding of how chords fit it to certain keys, as well as things like how each chord is common to several keys but how the 'key' of the piece makes that chord have a different feel and sound.

[candlelightpiano]

AJ:  Here's my little composition:

[costicina]

I'm so impressed, Choo: you are a COMPOSER 
I'll try to play your piece  and let you know. Anyway, BRAVA

[ajspiano]

Do you feel like a composer yet?

It's looking better no? More like a real piece of music.. When I get a chance I'm going to do a video for this that's shows some thoughts about how we might structure the LH here, as well as explain how to write a some basic modulation ideas for the next bars.. As I'm sure you've found, finishing On the V chord makes it sound unfinished so we need to add something more.

[candlelightpiano]

Yeah, AJ, I feel like a little composer .....NOT!!      But it was fun to do.  Look forward to your video. Is that how the Unfinished Symphony ended? On the V chord?

Marg, you're funny!  This piece is very easy to play! 

[starstruck5]

Yeah, AJ, I feel like a little composer .....NOT!!      But it was fun to do.  Look forward to your video. Is that how the Unfinished Symphony ended? On the V chord?

Marg, you're funny!  This piece is very easy to play! 

That's very good Choo -your piece -

I will have to check out the chord where Schuberts; unfinished finished now! lol

[ajspiano]

Is schuberts not 'unfinished' because its missing an entire movement..?

an example of a V chord ending would be chopins rev etude..

[candlelightpiano]

So does the Rev sound unfinished?  I wonder why Chopin composed it that way? 

[ajspiano]

I think unresolved is a better word for it.

Supposedly (I'm not a history buff, anyone can feel free to correct me) - Op. 10 No. 12 was written in 1831 and expresses the mental/emotional anguish chopin felt regarding the Russian invasion of his home country Poland.

I may be over stepping my knowledge of chopin's thoughts or how he composed, but perhaps the unfinished effect of the V chord is intended to represent the idea of a desire for some kind of revenge upon Russia, a forthcoming retaliation..

That may of course just be representative of how it makes me feel though, not how chopin felt - and I doubt that he would have been thinking "I'd really like to see russia fall, I'll end on a V chord to express that" - just that's perhaps what he felt and so thats the music that came out spontaneously. That is how it works for me anyway, once you have your head around the options and know what different progressions sound like you choose them without concious thought most of the time.. you just feel whats right.

[j_menz]

I think unresolved is a better word for it.

Supposedly (I'm not a history buff, anyone can feel free to correct me) - Op. 10 No. 12 was written in 1831 and expresses the mental/emotional anguish chopin felt regarding the Russian invasion of his home country Poland.

I may be over stepping my knowledge of chopin's thoughts or how he composed, but perhaps the unfinished effect of the V chord is intended to represent the idea of a desire for some kind of revenge upon Russia, a forthcoming retaliation..

Russia was already in control of Poland, the events were the crushing of an uprising by Polish patriots (which Chopin supported).  The "unresolved" character of the ending is not a plan for revenge, more an "it ain't over yet". Quite appropriate to Chopin's feelings.

[ajspiano]

Russia was already in control of Poland, the events were the crushing of an uprising by Polish patriots (which Chopin supported).  The "unresolved" character of the ending is not a plan for revenge, more an "it ain't over yet". Quite appropriate to Chopin's feelings.

Thats a better way to describe what I get a sense of from it than revenge is..  similar ideas though. Thanks for the history correction.

[candlelightpiano]

The history was very interesting!  I listened to the Rev on Youtube and could feel the unresolved ending, for sure.  I liked your theory about why Chopin may have composed it to end that way, though, AJ. 

I found Paul Barton's tutorial on WinterWind and he also talked about breaking up the RH in a similar fashion to yours:

Anyway, I'll post another Consolation video tomorrow as most forumeers are probably wondering why we're not talking about Consolation anymore!   

AJ:  I hope you can also help me with some problems with Grieg that I'll ask on that thread.  Thanks. 

[starstruck5]

I think unresolved is a better word for it.

Supposedly (I'm not a history buff, anyone can feel free to correct me) - Op. 10 No. 12 was written in 1831 and expresses the mental/emotional anguish chopin felt regarding the Russian invasion of his home country Poland.

I may be over stepping my knowledge of chopin's thoughts or how he composed, but perhaps the unfinished effect of the V chord is intended to represent the idea of a desire for some kind of revenge upon Russia, a forthcoming retaliation..

That may of course just be representative of how it makes me feel though, not how chopin felt - and I doubt that he would have been thinking "I'd really like to see russia fall, I'll end on a V chord to express that" - just that's perhaps what he felt and so thats the music that came out spontaneously. That is how it works for me anyway, once you have your head around the options and know what different progressions sound like you choose them without concious thought most of the time.. you just feel whats right.

Yes I think Chopin would have wanted to end the Revolutionary unresloved -because he is still angry basically -it is his anger which is being expressed here -

Didn't the Russians throw Chopins piano out of the window? It must have bothered them his etude -and they couldn't destroy that.

[zoecalgary]

Choo, I just watch the tutorial on Winter Wind - what an interesting piece. How are you getting along with it? Why did AJ assign it to you? Is it to help with Consolation or technique in general?

[ajspiano]

Choo, I just watch the tutorial on Winter Wind - what an interesting piece. How are you getting along with it? Why did AJ assign it to you? Is it to help with Consolation or technique in general?

I didnt really 'assign' it - choo and I were discussing how to learn a passage quickly. We used winterwind as an example because its hard enough that I couldnt play a small section of it on the spot without actually practicing. So I was able to demonstrate the use of some practice ideas, and talk about how to most effectively learn to play fast challenging passages, we looked at bars 5-8.. mostly RH.

We were looking at the problems that can be created by starting slowly, and stepping up the metronome notch by notch. Not that this kind of practice isnt valid, but it can create 'speed walls' or take a really long time to get up to speed. There are ways to practice (along side slow work) that help you get going faster. I havent watched P. Barton thoroughly yet, but it looks as if he's suggesting pretty much exactly what I did, and what birba has also talked about a little bit with Choo's FI in a couple of places.

[candlelightpiano]

Zoe:  I only worked on WW for 40 minutes. I haven't decided if I'm going to really work on it or not but like AJ was saying, he was trying to show me how to get up to speed quickly and also how to break a passage into smaller parts to learn it more quickly.  Birba taught me that in his first video of FI and also later, in another video, he showed how he would practice the descending arpeggios just before the middle section.  At the moment, I have a thumb sprain so my practice has been limited to Consolation and the middle section of FI. I may have to ditch the Grieg piece or play it without the thumb stretches until my thumb is much better.

AJ:  Paul Barton is advocating a similar method of learning this piece and other pieces.  It was actually fascinating to hear him talk about practicing WW EXACTLY as you mentioned in your video.

[candlelightpiano]

Here's my newest video, taken from a different angle, for a change.  All comments welcome!

[zoecalgary]

Choo, I love it!  I love being able to see all of you while playing. Makes me feel like I was sitting in the audience at one of your performances!  I think you should stick to this angle when recording a piece like this.  It also was interesting hearing how the sound filled the space (I'm assuming the mike was on your camera).

The piece is very lovely and I really really liked your ending. So soft and gentle. Nice! Nice!

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks, Zoe!  I thought I'd try a different angle which would show the whole piano in the room, you know, instead of the usual camera on the hands angle.  But the lid of the piano was so heavy!!  So I usually keep it down.  I recorded twice, once with the lid down and the other time, up and I thought it sounded better up.  But of course, it sounds louder too and this piece is supposed to be ppp in the beginning!  But many pianists play it pretty loud.  Thought you might like to see the whole piano in a part of the room since you're considering buying one, too.  I don't know about the mike.  I just recorded using my camera, like usual.  The ending I learned from Starstruck.  He told me to count down for the last 5 notes and he actually gave me the counts for them.  My teacher loves the ending, too. 

[costicina]

Wow!!!!  You surprised me, your performance it at a very high standard.- You should post itin the audition room: please, do it!!!
Good control of the touch, very intense expressivity, if you missed some ot the polythithms, well, I didn't noticed. To split hairs over your interpretation, perhaps  RH should prevail a little more on the accompainment part. But really, it's just my opinion. 
What I liked most in general is how you are able to convey the sweet, tender, romantic mood of the piece with such a good taste, never exaggerating rubato etc. : elegantly restrained and yet so deeply felt and touching. Really, a GREAT job!!! And Zoe is right, the angle of the camera and the audio were very good!

If you think my opinion is biased (you know that I have a genuine simpathy for you), I asked to my daughter to listen to your performance. She liked  it immensely. She thought you were a pro!!!!

 

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks so much, Marg!  I really like the applause video, too!  Made me feel good.      I'm very glad Costanza thought it was good, too.  It never hurts to have more than one opinions!  Do you mean my RH should be louder?  I thought it was too loud already but I'll listen again.  Maybe in some places it's not loud enough.  We sent the clip to family and they complained that they didn't see my face!  What should I do?  Maybe I'll try and make another recording that shows my face a little more.  I'm very camera shy, though.  I'm not a knockout, like you!  And the camera makes me look very fat.  But I'll see what I can do about that.  And of course, I know your opinion is biased but I love you for it!  Bias makes the world go round!   

[costicina]

Choo, I'm biased, but had I thought that your performance was not good, I would have find a nice way to say you the truth. That's what friends are here for!!!!

As for the camera angle, I liked very much the angle point. I think I'll adopt two solutions: the first (my usual one) focussed on hands (and legs, to distract the male audience from the wrong notes  . I think I have intensify my gym training ).. The second will be with a full view of the piano, but from the back, like in your video.
The acoustic of my salon is very bad: it's too wide, and the ceilings are too high.

The Brahms' LUllaby is a great idea!!!! I was thinking to refresh two very short Scriabin preludes...

[starstruck5]

I enjoyed your performance very much Choo. Take a bow!  Your voicing of that Db chord in bar 43 was awesome. Very impressive.

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks, Starstruck! I didn't expect such compliments!  Okay, I'll try once more today to get my face into the camera for a few seconds, maybe wear shorts to distract the male audience (Marg, you're so very naughty!!    ) and see how it turns out.  If it doesn't turn out well, I'll just go ahead and post this video to the audition room and please, all of you, please show up there and support me!  I'm so scared to be in there .....    If my new video turns out well, I'll post that in the audition room and let you guys know so you can make a fast track there to support me before the wolves eat me up!  But I'll let you know, either way. 

What Brahm's Lullaby are you talking about, Marg?  Did I say I was going to play it?  I played it in Grade 1, I think.  I can play that for Birba's Out with the New project.     Maybe put some people to sleep!  zzzzz

[candlelightpiano]

I have posted my Consolation to the Audition Room so this post concludes this project.  I want to thank everyone who helped me learn this piece:  Megadodd, Dire Tonic (DT), Starstruck and AJ.  I also want to thank them and Marg, Zoe and Danhuyle for their constant support and encouragement.  

Hope you'll join me in the Audition Room on my thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=45743.0

Thanks all of you who followed my progress.   I couldn't have done it without you!

[spb_jcb]

Very well done and thanks for the inspiration. Stephen

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks, Stephen.  I hope you'll visit my page in the Audition Room and post comment.  

[azooza]

I would like to thank Choo, Zoe, and all the theorists/teachers/academics who have made this thread what it is - a vast source of comfort and inspiration to those newcomers to the Consolation 3 who are full of trepidation - just like me. Indeed, the 'polys' are a nightmare and a real challenge for a newcomer to this piece. However, I think that there's been enough help here for an amateur to make progress through that quagmire, so I won't dwell on it other than to say a resounding 'thanks!' for all the tips. I'm sure that stuff 'clicks' after a while, like FI, but I'm nowhere there yet.

I've just spent the last eight hours going through this thread and watching all the videos etc. I'm just wondering if now; as of July 7th, there's anyone around who would like to rejuvenate this. Are YOU trying to crack the Consolation 3 like me?

I have to say that Choo has been an inspiration here. From first steps to a full performance. Wonderful.

Looking forward to comparing notes with new and old would-be performers of this piece.

About me: I'm 60 years old; only RCM grade 1 (at 10 years old) and for the most part, self-taught. I could play the Chopin Etude 25 #1 and Fantasie Impromptu quite well when I was 28 - but have become very rusty. I'm NOT a good student as I hate sight reading - and that was my downfall. So I commit to memory from the score, and find that memory is probably my only skill. Apart from that, I think I have a 'reasonable' touch'.

I am a Brit living long-term in China, and just picked up a Casio PX-135, so I'm all 'DP' here.

Thanks for reading!

Best regards,

Dale

[candlelightpiano]

Hello Dale and welcome to PS!

Thanks for the kind words.  I thought it would take you many hours to get through this.  You've probably got a pretty good picture of some of us from reading our posts!   

You must be very talented to be able to play FI and Chopin op 25/1 with only RCM Grade 1!!  I did my ABRSM Gr 4 exam during my first year of piano but then, quit piano a year and a half after that.  This year, I had another two months of lessons but it didn't work out and I'm back to being self taught again but I must say that I have learned a lot from several fine members of this forum who are incredibly dedicated and are willing and happy to help others.  But I still haven't managed to learn to play Fantasie Impromptu well.  The last three months I've hardly practiced due to a hand injury but I'm hoping to begin a very limited practice soon (10 mins a day) focusing on improving technique first.

I hope you'll post videos of your work in progress here and hope others join this bandwagon again.  It will be fun to revive this thread and it's good to have you on board.

Choo

[starstruck5]

I would like to thank Choo, Zoe, and all the theorists/teachers/academics who have made this thread what it is - a vast source of comfort and inspiration to those newcomers to the Consolation 3 who are full of trepidation - just like me. Indeed, the 'polys' are a nightmare and a real challenge for a newcomer to this piece. However, I think that there's been enough help here for an amateur to make progress through that quagmire, so I won't dwell on it other than to say a resounding 'thanks!' for all the tips. I'm sure that stuff 'clicks' after a while, like FI, but I'm nowhere there yet.

I've just spent the last eight hours going through this thread and watching all the videos etc. I'm just wondering if now; as of July 7th, there's anyone around who would like to rejuvenate this. Are YOU trying to crack the Consolation 3 like me?

I have to say that Choo has been an inspiration here. From first steps to a full performance. Wonderful.

Looking forward to comparing notes with new and old would-be performers of this piece.

About me: I'm 60 years old; only RCM grade 1 (at 10 years old) and for the most part, self-taught. I could play the Chopin Etude 25 #1 and Fantasie Impromptu quite well when I was 28 - but have become very rusty. I'm NOT a good student as I hate sight reading - and that was my downfall. So I commit to memory from the score, and find that memory is probably my only skill. Apart from that, I think I have a 'reasonable' touch'.

I am a Brit living long-term in China, and just picked up a Casio PX-135, so I'm all 'DP' here.

Thanks for reading!

Best regards,

Dale

Welcome to this forum Dale -Hope you enjoy learning the Db Consolation -it is one of the most beautiful pieces ever written.

[ancientsolar]

Loving your playing

I attempt the study of this piece from time to time, but the timing is what I dont have time for

If I can say what appears to be triplets in a 4/4 equivalent time crossed with various Crotchets and semi quavers, I can understand the maths to work it out and hopefully will look at it when
my grade 7 exam is out of the way!

Until then ive looked at consolation 2 & 5 , their both beauties!