Charles-Valentin Alkan

[Jake]

The fantastic 19th century French-Jewish composer and pianist.  I'm fascinated by his music, which is unduly neglected.

Busoni regarded Alkan as one of the five greatest post-Beethoven piano composers (along with Chopin, Schumann, Brahms, and Liszt). I agree fully with Busoni's assessment.  Also, his virtuosity is said to rival that of Liszt, and Thalberg.

I've recently begun learning Barcarolle op 65, (one of the more accessable pieces Alkan produced).

If anyone is interested in top class recordings, I highly recommend those by Canadian supervirtuoso Marc-Andre Hamelin as a starter.

For more information on Alkan, you can check out the following link:

https://alkan.bluestealth.com

[donjuan]

Yeah, we know Alkan VERY well at this forum.
I am sure you will meet up with a number of fans like yourself.
donjuan

[Jake]

What I find interesting, is that people who discover Alkan's music usually find it fanatstic. It's quite strange that he is as unkown as he is considering the quality of his work, and the fact that the people who do know his work tend to love it.

Spread the word!   Let's find that lost Symphony!

[liszmaninopin]

I enjoy Alkan's music.  I wouldn't put him in the top 5 greatest post Beethoven composers, but his music is very good, nonetheless.

[Jake]

True, Rachmaninov might bump Alkan off the list considering his symponic works including four full-scale piano concertos.

But the quality of Alkan's solo works make him deserving of the accolade in my opinion.

[donjuan]

One thing I dont like about Alkan is how complicated it is.  Sometimes, it seems as if there are too many unneccesary notes getting in the way of the melody. --> its kind of like Scriabin!  That's why I like Liszt- one melody, clear harmony, comfortable to play, pure, sincere emotions, no fake virtuosity (at least after he developed his style)  

But I like listening to Alkan.  It sounds so neat-o, but it gives me a headache to look at the sheetmusic..
donjuan

[Jake]

The virtuosity required to play some of Alkan's work is daunting, and certainly limits play of the most difficult works to a mere handful of pianists worldwide.  However, I believe the pile up of notes you describe can be confused for being arrogant, when in actuality it's just the grand expression typical of Alkan.  Five fingers create a remarkable range of orchestral possibilities in Op 76, Trois grandes etudes. I would call that the epitome of efficiency! For an example of understatement where other composers would show off, note Le Vent op 15, #2, the Concerti di camera...etc.

[Daevren]

One thing I dont like about Alkan is how complicated it is.  Sometimes, it seems as if there are too many unneccesary notes getting in the way of the melody. --> its kind of like Scriabin!

Complex? It just has many ornamentations and small note values. It isn't that complex, its actually quite straightforward. And that is why it is enjoyable.

So I don't see the resemblence with Scriabin. His music was really complex and he didn't have much extra notes in his music. Almost all are an essential part of the harmony.

Now Liszt does have extra notes. But not as many as Alkan, and Liszt has complex harmony in his later music. But nowhere near that of Scriabins later works.

That's why I like Liszt- one melody, clear harmony, comfortable to play, pure, sincere emotions, no fake virtuosity (at least after he developed his style)

Liszt surely used polypony and pantonality/tonal ambiguity. Comfortable to play? Certainly more comfortable than most Alkan and Scriabin. Pure and sincere emotions? Fake virtuosity? I don't know what you really mean with that. The first two are pretty subjective.

But I like listening to Alkan.  It sounds so neat-o, but it gives me a headache to look at the sheetmusic..

Sure, all tha blackness. But Scriabin, his rhythms, they give me a headache too.

[Max]

Hamelin is THE Alkan performer. Pity he wont be performing it any more (apparently..according to someone who spoke to him)

Also, Alkan doesnt have 'virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity', every note is a part of the big harmonial picture. He also wrote beautiful lyrical music. Alkan is one composer you cant listen to on midi, also..

[faulty_damper]

"extra notes"

What do you mean by "extra notes"?

[Daevren]

Notes and even chords that have no harmonic or structural purpose. appoggiatura, passing notes, neighbouring notes, diminutions, embellishments, ornamentation.

You can have chords supporting those notes. If you look at Alkan, you will see it alot.

But I shouldn'd have used the word 'extra'. Because it doesn't have the right meaning in the english laungage.

[liszmaninopin]

Alkan is definitely one of the more difficult Romantic period composers, but I find his harmonies rather unoriginal overall.  Lots of volume, and speed, but I don't think that he achieves as much variety in color and harmony that many other great composers did.  Alkan's music is definitely very passionate, which is a good thing.  However, I think it lacks variety-it is nonstop volume and torrents of notes alot of the time (from what I've heard).

[faulty_damper]

Notes and even chords that have no harmonic or structural purpose. appoggiatura, passing notes, neighbouring notes, diminutions, embellishments, ornamentation.  

You can have chords supporting those notes. If you look at Alkan, you will see it alot.

But I shouldn'd have used the word 'extra'. Because it doesn't have the right meaning in the english laungage.

Has anyone listened to anything other than his Opus 39?  Alkan seems to be judged solely on this set of works without regard to any other of his works.  Opus 39 are "etudes" - should they not be technically diffclut?  And if you remove these "appoggiatura, passing notes, neighbouring notes, diminutions, embellishments, ornamentation" then will it not have a different quality?

[Daevren]

I listened to his organ works, his sonata, his sonatina, his cello piano duet. I also have his Esquisses, etudes, and piano trio but I haven't listened to those yet.

[Maui]

Daevren

Where did u got those records?
Did u use any share program or something? I really want to listen some alkan music but i cant find anything, even in the most efficient engines.

Thkx

[Daevren]

Both. I have CDs and I use soulseek.

I also would like to hear even more Alkan.

Does anyone know about the 6(?) voice fugues? What is the opus number?

[cziffra777]

Alkan's chamber music is great. There is a Naxos cd with most (or maybe all) of it.

[Max]

Has anyone listened to anything other than his Opus 39?  Alkan seems to be judged solely on this set of works without regard to any other of his works.  Opus 39 are "etudes" - should they not be technically diffclut?  And if you remove these "appoggiatura, passing notes, neighbouring notes, diminutions, embellishments, ornamentation" then will it not have a different quality?

Heh, I really like the op.39 work, even as a first piece to listen to. All his etudes have the same melodic qualities of Liszts.

[donjuan]

All his etudes have the same melodic qualities of Liszts.

Cant say I agree with you there.  I prefer Liszt's phrasing to Alkan.

[Max]

Well yeah, I prefer Liszts also, but to me they are very simialr.

[maxy]

This is funny!

in replies:
I prefer Liszt!
I prefer Alkan!

Liszt=too many notes
Alkan=too many notes

no that's wrong:

Liszt=the right amount  of notes
Alkan=all notes necessary!

Come on people!

They both did some great stuff! (and not so great stuff)   And no piano addicts would pass on the oportunity to tackle the challenges they offer us...

Let's be honest: Alkan did tend to add "extra" notes a bit more than Liszt... but it is also part of the fun!

[donjuan]

Let's be honest: Alkan did tend to add "extra" notes a bit more than Liszt.

HA!!! Do you all see that?! Someone on MY side!!!  

[DarkWind]

But Liszt had people to show off too. Alkan was a hermit...

[Max]

He was a damn cool hermit.

Though, at the end of Liszts life, he also spent a lot of time 'isolated'.

[steinwaymodeld]

One thing I dont like about Alkan is how complicated it is.  Sometimes, it seems as if there are too many unneccesary notes getting in the way of the melody. --> its kind of like Scriabin!  That's why I like Liszt- one melody, clear harmony, comfortable to play, pure, sincere emotions, no fake virtuosity (at least after he developed his style)  

But I like listening to Alkan.  It sounds so neat-o, but it gives me a headache to look at the sheetmusic..
donjuan

I agreed with you about the Alkan, but I disagree TOTALLY with your comment on Scriabin.

[liszmaninopin]

Alkan's music is very good, don't get me wrong.  However, I feel that he is becoming the new "well-known obscure virtuoso composer" for aspiring pianists to play, mainly because of his reputation for difficulty.  To tell you the truth, I don't feel Alkan is nearly as difficult as late Scriabin or many twentieth century piano pieces.  It almost seems to me that Alkan is a fad of sorts.  Of course, his music is worthy of much more than that, but it seems like people treat Alkan as a virtuoso vehicle and little else.

[chopiabin]

By the way, Scriabin did NOT add extra notes ot his pieces.  Scriabin's music is still some of the most complex music even when compared to a lot of contemporary music. He contributed so much to the development of modern music and I can't have nobody dissin my Scriabin .

[maxy]

what could we say against Scriabin... he was just plain crazy!  

[Daevren]

Not many people seem to have the right brain for Scriabin.

I am glad I have.