The 'project model': Chopin Etude op 25 n 1 Aeolian harp

[costicina]

...one of the many pieces I’ve tried to learn and never finished. Perhaps starting a ‘project thread’ will help me to focus on the troublesome spots resolving them once and for all. 

This suave piece and the neurotic Suggestion diabolique are a weird couple, but I find somehow relaxing switching from one to another.

Today I practiced the first page: the accompainment part is still too loud, the  melody  woody and not expressive enough.  But at least now is distinguishable (or am I deluding myself?)
 
Birba’s tutorial video  and Rachfan advices for my daughter, when she was learning Schumann Intermezzo  op 26, have helped me a lot to understand how to approach  this kind of pieces with ‘layered’ structure. I’m deeply grateful to both of them....

[pianoplayjl]

Hi, Costicina, I am going to be following this closely because my friend is learning this piece and sadly I wouldn't be able to offer any advice. This is one of the pieces that you have to sit far away from the piano to give yourself more space. You know when your vids only show mostly your hands? I'd like to see your whole body instead, please since perhaps Birba and Rachfan might be able to offer more advice. My understanding is, this piece involves a lot of body motion and you are probably aware of that already.

JL

[costicina]

  Sorry, but I don't understand exactly what you mean...of course the body follows the hand/forearm/upper arm movement, but only accompanying them, not adding a superfluous set of motions, and this is true for this piece as for any other else.

But maybe I didn't get it right....

[pianoplayjl]

Sorry, but I don't understand exactly what you mean...of course the body follows the hand/forearm/upper arm movement, but only accompanying them, not adding a superfluous set of motions, and this is true for this piece as for any other else.

But maybe I didn't get it right....

Or maybe you did. 

Don't worry, I'm not here to take advice, I am just an observer. 

JL

[costicina]

You are very active in the forum, showing a genuine and deep interest in piano playing. Why don't you post some recording? I'm curious...

Don't be shy: As you see, even humble, flawed attempts find generous and helpful feedbacks 

[candlelightpiano]

Marg:  This is quite lovely playing. I watched Dr Fink (I'm studying his DVD that you recommended - thank you! Great recommendation!) play a bit of this and loved it.  You have the beautiful circular movements he demonstrated. I'm not sure if he lifted his wrists off the keys much, though, when hitting the melody. He only played the beginning few measures, if that, so I wouldn't know. I'm sure Birba or AJ will provide you with the advice you need but it sounds beautiful. I'm enjoying your projects! Keep it up! I'll be following closely.

[birba]

[costicina]

  GRAZIEEEEE!!!!!!
I should practice like this, right?:

[candlelightpiano]

That's cute, Marg! Putting your talents to work!

Birba, thanks for the video. Someday I may learn to play this piece and I'll have a better idea how to start.  

[costicina]

I'm impressed, Choo, because you noticed instinctively what was wrong in my playing, the pinky movment/sound (it has the mdelody!!!) 'detatched' from the arp...I think this piece fits well to you.  I hope you'll consider to learn it.

BTW, did you how well and effortless (without the score) Birba plays the first page of this Etude that costed me hours of painful work to   

[costicina]

I'm impressed, Choo, because you noticed instinctively what was wrong in my playing, the pinky movment/sound (it has the mdelody!!!) 'detatched' from the arp...I think this piece fits well to you.  I hope you'll consider to learn it.

BTW, did you see how well and effortless (without the score) Birba performs  the first page of this Etude that costed me hours of painful work to  learn?  

[candlelightpiano]

MARG: Ha ha!  Did I really? I'm the most unobservant person!  Birba is a Maestro! You can't compare yourself to him.  I think he was playing it by memory on the video so he knows this piece well. You'll do so well.  You already sound good.

[danhuyle]

Of all the Chopin Etudes, I've never touched Op25/1 before. Now that this thread is up, maybe I should take a look at this etude and show everyone how I would practice this.

[costicina]

Great!!!!
But please, dont' play it too well, at least fake some mistakes here and there 

[costicina]

Birba, is this the idea?

[starstruck5]

That was better I think -dunno what Birba will say!  I think you need to play the melody notes with more love -at the moment you are making them sound like your worst enemy!   

[costicina]

Suggestion diabolique rules in my mind 

[candlelightpiano]

Here's a pianist playing this. She doesn't look energetic with her wrists and arms.

[ajspiano]

I would assume - from the standpoint of having not studied the piece - that the melody notes need to feel gentle/slow but heavier and articulated - while the rest should feel gentle and lightweight.

I also always assume that I'm wrong until I try it at a piano..

[costicina]

 I was trying to join the melody line with the arp, and in this respect I think I've improved. As for the 'mood' of the piece, you are right, it's too 'energetic'. But IMO it should be passionate, too, gentle but not anaemic....
One resolved the techinque problems, I'll work at the expression's nuances, I swear

[ajspiano]

One resolved the techinque problems, I'll work at the expression's nuances, I swear

But Marg!!  what if the expressive nuances require an adjustment to the technique!?

[costicina]

Sure, they can't be separated, you're right...still, I have a clear idea in my mind of how this piece should sound...when the 'joining movement' will be more fluid, I'll be able to transform it from 'energetic' to 'passionate'.....at least I hope so  

[johnmar78]

Hey Marg, just saw this by chance in "student section" is this where you hide... .

From what I see, there is too much tension on your hand and too much "jump' and vertical heights in your playing.

There are two ways to play your right hand, 1) wrist rotation is good; but finger development comes first befroe you add your wrist/arm weights into your tone.

2) lay your hands on the keyboard as flat as you can, and press each key SLOWLY and closely as possible. Let the key pushes your finger up AFTER each sound is produced., This means your effort is only the depress action. The aim here is total muscle relaxzation with muscle control. Ps, total muslce relaxzation means your hands not to fall off keyboard but enough to hang on the keyboard with your shoulder relaxed.

Play this without pedal. Once you can get a full legato-as possible, you have completed STEP one


Step 2:
 Practice slowly this time with short pinch stacatto, let finger rebound by the key's push up action.

step 3. Do at least 20 minutes untill your both  hands are a bit tired ..see how you go.........cu next video..

[costicina]

.Better? 

[candlelightpiano]

It looks and sounds much better!  Good job, Marg!  Keep it up!

[costicina]

Thank you, Choo!!! Birba too says it has  imand was so kind to make a video explaining how to work at it. I'll post it here: it's in Italian, but easy to understand. Enjoy it!!!

[candlelightpiano]

   That was so interesting, Marg, hearing Birba speak in Italian!! I could understand some things he said (you tell me if I'm right): Not like this, slowly, from the beginning (primo) ...LOL!  Am I right? It was great!  He is absolutely one of the kindest, most generous people I've ever known and we are very lucky to have him here.  And he played your etude so beautifully. Even though he is not a teacher, he will always be my favorite teacher!!  You're very lucky he is teaching you. I'm envious!

[costicina]

I've finished the piece, following Birba's advices. I posted it in the Audition room, too, but it's still to polish, so this is the more appropriate board. I hope you can see some improvement 

[betsyeyring]

I love this piece, and just started working on it as well.  Obviously, i'm not the authority on it, but I think there's a very tranquil quality to this piece that seems to be missing thus far - from what I can tell, it would appear to stem mostly from an overly strong strike of the keys in your left hand - i've had the same issue - but as i've addressed it, i've noticed that the piece suddenly takes a much more distinct "shape". 

Also (if i'm being bold here, which apparently I am...), the evenness is crucial - right now it's very difficult to distinguish any of the "strummed" notes between the top and bottom melody notes.  There's almost a second melody in there that balances out the top note in the right hand and the bottom in the left hand. 

anyway - like I said, I'm hardly the expert - just things that i've found helped me in my own practice of this piece. 

[costicina]

You are right, Betsy, the quality of touch here is a crucial issue. I tended to hit too loud the melody notes of the pinky, and it was very unpleasant. Now that I've gaind more fluency, I'll work at control of touch, especially in LH. 

Thank you for your advices, and good luck with this nice Etude!!!

[candlelightpiano]

Lovely playing, Marg!   And you completed it too!  Congratulations!  I enjoyed it very much!

[costicina]

  Thank you Choo for your kind encouragement!
Now that the bulk of the job is done, I' have to polish and refine...

It's a lovely piece, very rewarding to play : why don't you give it a try? I think it fits well your innate musicality. Besides, one learns  so much from Chopin Etudes....
I was thinking to tackle the firts 8/10 bars of each one to improve my technique...

[candlelightpiano]

I'll do them someday as I love Chopin but for now, I'm struggling with FI (such a struggle!) and still working on Consolation.  I'm hoping to do Grieg's Morning Mood for my next piece, as you know.  I like variety!

It's a wonderful idea to learn a bit of every etude.  I saw you in the Audition room but didn't post there as I have nothing of any use to add!      To me, your playing sounds beautiful.  Keep it up!

[starstruck5]

It is progressing well I think -you are at the point where everything is about refinement -and that is a great achievement in itself. You really do set yourself some difficult challenges -but you have great tenacity!

I also thought your hands were quite beautiful in this performance -like Yuja Wang in places -not such long fingers -but still beautiful -

[costicina]

You are very kind, and encouraging...I really hope to refine this piece in order to play it as it deserves...
As for my hands, I'm at war with them, they are sooo small  thin, childlike...It's abig handicap for piano playing 

[starstruck5]

You can only play the piano with the hands you were born with!

Some people say big hands have their own drawbacks -and that hands which naturally span an octave are ideal -as a vertically challenged dwarf like bloke myself -I often wish I had longer fingers and better stretches between 2/3 ans 3/4 -but it is fun to be challenged sometimes -