Piano Forum

Topic: Piano Face?  (Read 9095 times)

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Piano Face?
on: March 14, 2012, 04:07:17 AM
I've recently watched a series of masterclasses by Daniel Barenboim on some of the Beethoven Sonatas. One of the things that struck me was that 5 of the 6 pupils had quite markedly odd exp[ressions whilst they played. Lang Lang was one of them, but by no means the worst (which may give you some idea how extremely odd some of the looked).

I found it both distracting and offputting.

So, two questions:

Do you have a piano face? and Do you think it makes you play better or worse?

My answers: I don't think I do, and the effort involved in maintaining the one's I've seen must cause tension in all the wrong places, resulting in a weaker performance.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline johnmar78

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 07:10:27 AM
Menz, I saw that clip few months ago, that Lang Lang looke dlike in early 20's, befroe he got famous. I have to say his father is an opera director, thereofre, all music expression has to be tranfered to facial in a more exaggeraited from. I close my eye when I see him, or just watch some one elese. ;)
I have little facial expression just like everyone else to, when your body and mental are fully embeded in music/playing, you would be supprise what your face/mouth will do... ;D Video youself.... So as long as you are not pretending or some kind of ATTENTION SEEKER, I dont think it would distract form playing, perhaps from viewer point of view, yes.

Offline charliefreak

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 08:56:46 AM
the effort involved in maintaining the one's I've seen must cause tension in all the wrong places, resulting in a weaker performance.

I completely disagree.  When a person is feeling a certain emotion whilst playing music, it's quite normal and natural for his body language and facial expressions to reflect that.  In my opinion the tension and weaker performance would occur from trying to maintain a facial expression (poker face) that is contrary to the emotion one is feeling.

When I see a person performing a very emotional piece where, for example, the music is supposed to express some extreme emotion, such as heartbreak or rage, I find it inappropriate to see a blank facial expression.  It makes me think the performer is not truly lost in the music.

Richter and Hamelin are two examples of performers that show very little animation of the face and body language, and I think this has an effect on how I view their performances.  When listening to the audio only, I often think "wow, that was intense".  But when seeing the video with the reserved mannerisms I tend to start to reconsider and wonder if the stunning performance I heard was just contrived, as the performer doesn't appear to be that 'into it'.

On the other hand, it can also go the other way.  Where, for example, the music has a slight happy/upbeat feel to it, and the performer has a facial expression that looks like he just won the 100 million dollar lottery.

Offline piano_vs_science

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 05:59:53 AM
Quote
On the other hand, it can also go the other way.  Where, for example, the music has a slight happy/upbeat feel to it, and the performer has a facial expression that looks like he just won the 100 million dollar lottery.
LOL!!! :D

whenever I play(which is hardly) my long black hair covers my face which might look creepy
"e^ix=cosx+isinx"
Leonhard Euler

Offline thing2emma

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 16
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 04:29:41 AM
I've been told I normally look like I'm going to puke when I perform. ;)
Yeah that's the price you pay for not performing until Grade 10...
My face is normally pretty neutral, with that dazed inundated by the music look. I've been told that when I play my Chopin Nocturne in E minor I look distraught which, I suppose is good.
Currently working on:
Bach Prelude and Fugue 13
Mozart Sonate in E flat Major, KV 282
Chopin Nocturne in E Minor Op 72, No. 1
Gershwin Rialto Ripples
Bolcom Graceful Ghost Rag

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 09:49:27 PM
I look like  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( when I'm playing Bach.  But other than that, I make no face. 

But I think faces kinda give you the illusion that you're playing better?  I was playing a piece a while ago and my piano teacher got the impression that I hated it because I didn't make a face.  So I made a fake face and he said it was okay.

Are you kidding me?
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #6 on: July 05, 2012, 10:50:28 PM
I look like  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( when I'm playing Bach. 

Try more of a  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8). You'll find him much easier.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline 49410enrique

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3538
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #7 on: July 05, 2012, 10:56:50 PM
Try more of a  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8). You'll find him much easier.
he's right the sunglasses totally make it


takes some work but you can do it. especially when you consider the alternative for not fixing this

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #8 on: July 05, 2012, 11:06:15 PM
he's right the sunglasses totally make it


Hahahahahahahahah.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The lost Arnold Governator Bach.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 03:07:18 AM
I completely disagree.  When a person is feeling a certain emotion whilst playing music, it's quite normal and natural for his body language and facial expressions to reflect that.  In my opinion the tension and weaker performance would occur from trying to maintain a facial expression (poker face) that is contrary to the emotion one is feeling.

When I see a person performing a very emotional piece where, for example, the music is supposed to express some extreme emotion, such as heartbreak or rage, I find it inappropriate to see a blank facial expression.  It makes me think the performer is not truly lost in the music.

Richter and Hamelin are two examples of performers that show very little animation of the face and body language, and I think this has an effect on how I view their performances.  When listening to the audio only, I often think "wow, that was intense".  But when seeing the video with the reserved mannerisms I tend to start to reconsider and wonder if the stunning performance I heard was just contrived, as the performer doesn't appear to be that 'into it'.

On the other hand, it can also go the other way.  Where, for example, the music has a slight happy/upbeat feel to it, and the performer has a facial expression that looks like he just won the 100 million dollar lottery.
You don't need to make facial expressions to be immersed in the music.  And just because I don't make facial expressions, doesn't mean that I'm trying to force it to be that way.  That's just how I naturally am.  So how is it inappropriate?  Like you said, Ritcher and Hamelin don't make facial expressions, but they play just fine.  Horowitz even said that in an interview that he can't make facial expressions.  That's just how he naturally is.  He plays like a rock; he never moves, but he's a fantastic performance.  The most flashy performer isn't always the best one.  Lang Lang always makes facial expressions but it's pretty obvious that Horowitz is a better pianist.

I think facial expressions have absolutely nothing to do with how well you play the piano. 
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 03:09:18 AM

takes some work but you can do it. especially when you consider the alternative for not fixing this


Poor guy...  Bach was probably one of the requirements for the event he was performing in.  I understand his pain.  :'(
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 03:56:21 AM
I don't mind a performer with a crazy face..

I think personally I would find the below expression problematic for RH lines though.



..possibly left hand also, its hard to tell.

.............

this one also - if his hair isnt set like that I assume he moved backwards FAST - so I think I'd probably fall backwards..   gotta wonder if these are just shot to make him look exciting and they have nothing to do with a real performance..

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #12 on: July 06, 2012, 04:04:59 AM
look exciting ... nothing to do with a real performance..

Any Lang Lang review in summary.  ;D
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #13 on: July 06, 2012, 04:07:09 AM
Any Lang Lang review in summary.  ;D

Maybe if I played a chopin etude with an orange and got a few professional shots done I'd be famous too.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 04:19:05 AM
Maybe if I played a chopin etude with an orange and got a few professional shots done I'd be famous too.

A little old hat now.  Try Scarbo with a watermelon. 
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #15 on: July 06, 2012, 04:20:18 AM
A little old hat now.  Try Scarbo with a watermelon. 

I may be able to offer a reharmonised arrangement..

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #16 on: July 06, 2012, 04:29:55 AM
I may be able to offer a deharmonised arrangement..

Corrected your spelling.  :P
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #17 on: July 06, 2012, 04:39:57 AM
Corrected your spelling.  :P

Perhaps I should go with something more atonal to begin with..

a slipknot cover..? wait no. Salmon hater.

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #18 on: July 06, 2012, 04:51:41 AM
Perhaps I should go with something more atonal to begin with..

Cage's 4'33 played with a (heavily tranquilised) elephant, perhaps.

Note: If you can find it on Youtube, you're already too late.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #19 on: July 06, 2012, 05:07:55 AM
with a (heavily tranquilised) elephant

I may need to review some of the recent technique threads before I attempt this

Offline j_menz

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #20 on: July 06, 2012, 05:10:02 AM
I may need to review some of the recent technique threads before I attempt this

You can probably use them on the elephant.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #21 on: July 06, 2012, 05:15:36 AM
You can probably use them on the elephant.

I suspect if I did that the RSPCA might come after me.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #22 on: July 06, 2012, 02:23:49 PM
Maybe if I played a chopin etude with an orange and got a few professional shots done I'd be famous too.

I tried that with a tennis ball and knocked off a couple black keys off my piano teachers piano a couple months ago.  I blamed one of his kids.

I'll never forget this scene

Teacher:  what the *** just happened?!?!???! :o :o >:( >:( :-X :-X

Me: hey don't look at me, it was Phillip!  ::) ::)

Teacher:  PHILLIP!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

That was a close one!  I don't know what he would have done if he knew it was me!  I was able to get away with a lot of mischief because he had pretty bad kids.  So I would blame them for everything.  But this incident made Phillip REALLY mad.  He wouldn't look in my direction for a whole month! :'(



Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline zezhyrule

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 378
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #23 on: July 06, 2012, 04:05:27 PM
This thread is hilarious.

For a more on-topic reply... I'm not really sure, I don't record myself often enough. It's probably for the best if I don't know either way, as long as I don't look too stupid. I mean, what my face physically looks like is the last thing I'm thinking about when playing. Unlike Lang Lang. I bet he practices his 'faces' more than the pieces he plays. Wouldn't surprise me.
Currently learning -

- Bach: P&F in F Minor (WTC 2)
- Chopin: Etude, Op. 25, No. 5
- Beethoven: Sonata, Op. 31, No. 3
- Scriabin: Two Poems, Op. 32
- Debussy: Prelude Bk II No. 3

Offline musicalpoet23

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 8
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #24 on: July 12, 2012, 01:46:29 AM
My piano face is unattractive sometimes-- because at times, I play with my mouth open -_- but I have learned to control this a bit, so my piano face varies with the piece. Happy pieces, I sorta smile and sorta dance in my spot. Sad pieces, I bow over the piano, and since I have really long hair that scales my back, I look evil >:)

Piano face-- variable!

Offline zezhyrule

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 378
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #25 on: July 12, 2012, 01:54:42 AM
Just today I realized that I was sticking my tongue out while playing this one difficult passage for my teacher... And then once I became aware of that I messed up because I was thinking about how my face looked  :-X
Currently learning -

- Bach: P&F in F Minor (WTC 2)
- Chopin: Etude, Op. 25, No. 5
- Beethoven: Sonata, Op. 31, No. 3
- Scriabin: Two Poems, Op. 32
- Debussy: Prelude Bk II No. 3

Offline asuhayda

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #26 on: July 26, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
Hahaha! Piano face... I love it!  8)

I try my best not to twitch too much when I play. I agree with you, I find it distracting when pianists are too animated.  Plus,  I think it's wise to preserve energy where it is not required.  Scrunching up your face seems like it could lead to tension in "other places" as well.  Just a theory...

~ if you want to know what I'm working on.. just ask me!

Offline ruvidoetostinato

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #27 on: July 28, 2012, 08:41:26 AM
Piano face....

I've been told that my mouth is perpetually open (and not just a little ) whenever I perform. :o

I've tried to fix this cause 1) it looks funny 2) my mother said I look retarded 3) it looks funny
"Practice makes not so imperfect."
Surviving
Collaborating, Accompanying, Soloing, Teaching, Surviving.

Offline kclee6337

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: Piano Face?
Reply #28 on: July 28, 2012, 02:54:03 PM
usually i stick with the emotion of the piece if its sad i have a sad face one if its a happy piece i look happy,

but when it comes to playing some slow blues with a band i put on my stinky diaper face. the kind of face you make when you've just smelled a really stinky diaper.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert