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What the heck is this even possible?! Why even try?! (Sorry accidentally repost (Read 3814 times)

Offline ianzilla

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Offline ianzilla

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Offline ianzilla

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Someone with the ability to cold read Rach 3 would have recorded like thousands and thousands and thousands of pieces and would be world famous without even trying. Their playing experience base would have to be so broad and far reaching that to even consider that famous pieces from Rach have never come under their inspection is simply unbelievable. I admit there are amazing readers out there, I have personally studied and met a few of them, but none of them admitted that being able to cold read difficult works at tempo should be an aim for sight reading skills, not a single one of them.

Exactly, using logic like this, believing a statement that someone could sight read rach 3 at full speed is ridiculous.  To not believe that someone could do it is simply the most logical thing to do.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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one of Rach's most large scale works and he only wrote 2 sonatas.  A 60 year old successful classical pianist that teaches classical students for years and you are the first one to show him the first each sonata?  sure.

Sight reading rach 3 is probably impossible, I asked you to back up your claim. And you have no proof that Sgouros sight read it.  And he didn't, obviously.  Not one source anywhere says anything about it.   You didn't even research about it or anything, hell you barely remembered his name.  No source says anything about anyone sight reading it.  The only person that believes it with you is your old man piano teacher. 

You did not read everyone's replies, you just said that Sgouros was mentioned 3 years ago, but he was mentioned a few days ago.  You just said he was a famous pianist of course you would remember his name.  Therefore you are a liar and you lose more of the little credibility you have left on piano street. 

The way you started the topic discouraged other members from continuing piano.  You're the one who said "why even try, you are going up against super humans."  You basically got owned by more intelligent piano street members in the process and then dropped the subject.

calling me dumb or stupid isn't really doing anything except to expose your immaturity and lose your credibility.  When people read your replies on this thread, they see that all you do is get angry and claim to not get angry, call people stupid, and try to back up claims that you've heard without any proof

Bruh are you illiterate?  I told you I've seen sh*t like this before so I don't have too much trouble believing that he sightread it.  Of course I don't know for sure that he did it.  You can't be 100% sure of anything.  But I think it's pretty believable.  Even if he didn't do it I'm pretty sure it's possible.

Sorry but your dumb post is so full of fallacies that it doesn't deserve any recognition.  Don't tell me what I should or shouldn't remember.

If a simple thread like this discouraged others from continuing piano, then they shouldn't be playing piano anyways.  How do you even know if it DID discourage anyone?

Bruh you're the eimmature  one.  why are you trying to rail on me about a topic I got over with THREE YEARS AGO.  I was still in highschool back then I don't remember or care about anything I said.  Let go of the past this is stupid.  You intentionally bring up stupid sh*t JUST to start an argument with someone.  And you know that.  Grow up Kid it's dumb.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Someone with the ability to cold read Rach 3 would have recorded like thousands and thousands and thousands of pieces and would be world famous without even trying. Their playing experience base would have to be so broad and far reaching that to even consider that famous pieces from Rach have never come under their inspection is simply unbelievable. I admit there are amazing readers out there, I have personally studied and met a few of them, but none of them admitted that being able to cold read difficult works at tempo should be an aim for sight reading skills, not a single one of them.

If you could sightread a bunch of ridiculous sh*t that I throw at you, it's not possible to be able to sightread the rach 3.  

I already told you about the dude who literally blasted through the rach sonatas, and a bunch of random large scale works no problem.  So no.  It's not impossible.

Additionally being successful has nothing to do with it.  You can do whatever you want with your skill
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Exactly, using logic like this, believing a statement that someone could sight read rach 3 at full speed is ridiculous.  To not believe that someone could do it is simply the most logical thing to do.

No that is NOT a logical statement.  What someone does with their talent is completely irrelevant to whether or not they can achieve such feats.  JUST because you're good at something doesn't mean that you'll be world famous and record thousands of pieces.  

1.  sight reading rach sonatas, Prokofiev concertos, Tchaikovsky transcriptions are possible
2.  If sight reading crazy sh*t like that is possible, and the rach 3 isn't THAT much harder than those pieces, then sight reading the rach 3 is possible
3.  Sight reading the rach 3 is possible.

THAT is logic.  It's a valid and sound argument.  The entire string is true, and they are all relevant in backing up the conclusion.

If you can prove that to be not valid and/or sound, then I will say that you are right and I am wrong.

It doesn't get any more academic than that.  If you bring up more stupid sh*t about me reading replies and other stuff then I'm not acknowledging it.
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Online lostinidlewonder

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If you could sightread a bunch of ridiculous sh*t that I throw at you, it's not possible to be able to sightread the rach 3.  

I already told you about the dude who literally blasted through the rach sonatas, and a bunch of random large scale works no problem.  So no.  It's not impossible.

Additionally being successful has nothing to do with it.  You can do whatever you want with your skill
I dunno what you are trying to do here, you certainly are not proving your situation not that I really need it. I don't believe that you have been dealt with honestly by this fellow you think is a reading God, he's tricked you or you are simply lying to us. I read huge amounts of pieces by sight and consider myself better than most, but even those few I have personally met and learned with who are I feel muuuuch better than I cannot cold read insane pieces like you are trying to have us believe. It is not possible you just don't get what it means by cold reading a piece for the first time, never heard it or played it ever, and to say it applies to some fantastically challenging piece like rach 3 is just hilarious, I really find this amusing. Anyone who thinks it's humanly possible just has not studied sight reading to a high level and just imagine it, like a Kung ku master can jump three stories onto a roof!!!! It's true!!
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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I dunno what you are trying to do here, you certainly are not proving your situation not that I really need it. I don't believe that you have been dealt with honestly by this fellow you think is a reading God, he's tricked you or you are simply lying to us. I read huge amounts of pieces by sight and consider myself better than most, but even those few I have personally met and learned with who are I feel muuuuch better than I cannot cold read insane pieces like you are trying to have us believe. It is not possible you just don't get what it means by cold reading a piece for the first time, never heard it or played it ever, and to say it applies to some fantastically challenging piece like rach 3 is just hilarious, I really find this amusing. Anyone who thinks it's humanly possible just has not studied sight reading to a high level and just imagine it, like a Kung ku master can jump three stories onto a roof!!!! It's true!!

If you don't need me to prove myself then why are you talking

I already explained that it wasn't a trick.  I wasn't on drugs, and he wasn't some magician.  Go back and reread the situation I explained.  I literally pulled RANDOM (almost)sh*t from the bookshelf and he blasted through everything.  If you can explain how he was able to lie about all that THEN I might say that he was *** with me.  But until then, he was legit.  I doubt he was lying, and I don't have a reason to lie.  It's not like I'm getting paid or anything. 

Now of course he had mistakes.  It wasn't perfect.  When there were ledger lines like 20 lines above the stave he had to slow down to count a bit.  He lost a few notes here and there but over all he just plowed through everything.

Yeah you and your friends are good sight readers but I guess not good enough. Just because YOU guys can't do it doesn't mean that other people can.  You just haven't come across anyone this good before.  

You say that he tricked me but won't even explain how.  The fact that you and your buddies aren't as good as him doesn't mean anything.  You not being able to imagine it doesn't mean anything.  That's not how you construct a good counter argument.  
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Online lostinidlewonder

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If you don't need me to prove myself then why are you talking
I'm typing cos I can, don't you want response? I'm sorry if you wanted people agreeing with you only. Also to let people know that I am in the same boat as those who believe what you say is fantasy.

I already explained that it wasn't a trick.  I wasn't on drugs, and he wasn't some magician.  Go back and reread the situation I explained.  I literally pulled RANDOM (almost)sh*t from the bookshelf and he blasted through everything.  If you can explain how he was able to lie about all that THEN I might say that he was *** with me.  But until then, he was legit.  I doubt he was lying, and I don't have a reason to lie.  It's not like I'm getting paid or anything.
Your mind power tricks are useless against me. I'm sorry but you have not proved anything you are just hoping that we believe you, but based on my vast experience in sight reading what you say is bull crap.


Now of course he had mistakes.  It wasn't perfect.  When there were ledger lines like 20 lines above the stave he had to slow down to count a bit.  He lost a few notes here and there but over all he just plowed through everything.

Yeah you and your friends are good sight readers but I guess not good enough. Just because YOU guys can't do it doesn't mean that other people can.  You just haven't come across anyone this good before.  

You say that he tricked me but won't even explain how.  The fact that you and your buddies aren't as good as him doesn't mean anything.  You not being able to imagine it doesn't mean anything.  That's not how you construct a good counter argument.  
lol so I bet he played rach 3 in its entirety too, play for you for a few hours right? Lololololol ok rach this post is the weirdest I've seen you, didn't know u were this delusional. Oh and one of my so called friends is Roger Woodward.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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I'm typing cos I can, don't you want response? I'm sorry if you wanted people agreeing with you only. Also to let people know that I am in the same boat as those who believe what you say is fantasy.
Your mind power tricks are useless against me. I'm sorry but you have not proved anything you are just hoping that we believe you, but based on my vast experience in sight reading what you say is bull crap.

lol so I bet he played rach 3 in its entirety too, play for you for a few hours right? Lololololol ok rach this post is the weirdest I've seen you, didn't know u were this delusional. Oh and one of my so called friends is Roger Woodward.

If you don't care about me trying to prove this, then WHY are you talking?  That doesn't answer the question.  You could just easily say that I'm bullshitting and then call it a day.  Obviously you do care but you just don't wanna say it.

If you call asking a question or an explanation a power trick, then you have other bigger issues outside of this thread.

Well your experiences aren't vast enough.

He said he was learning the rach 3 but he didn't play it for me.  And no it wasn't for a few hours.

I don't care who roger Woodward is.  HE might not be able to do it but the dude I was with could.

Matter of fact.  Just as easily as you say I'm bsing you.  You're actually a garbage sightreader at all and you don't know roger Woodward.  You're either lying or hallucinating.  

At this point you're not even trying to say anything to counter what I saw.  It's littered with fallacies.  If it is bullshit, explain how it's bullshit.  That's a reasonable request.

So unless you know how to argue like a normal dude instead of spouting the same begging the question nonsense. Please stop replying.  This sh*t was posted three years ago, the original topic of this post is irrelevant.  And the convo were having right now is irrelevant to the topic of this post.  Which is irrelevant...
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Hi I'm lostinidlewonder and this is my argument for why it's bs

It's too hard because it's too hard
It's bs cause it's bs
It's too hard for me so it's bs
It's bs because it's too hard for me

You ask me to explain why? 

Naah Naah it's a mind trick I'm not falling for that

Circular logic and begging the question. 

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Online lostinidlewonder

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rachmaninoff_forever you are not making yourself look any better with your silly postings. Silly delusional boy. You don't know Woodward lol, say no more go enjoy your fantasy made up creations then. That I know Woodward and studied with him is not a fantasy it is no where near as far fetched as your stories in this thread. So with no evidence your story is muuuuuuuuuuuuuchhhhh more fantastic for anyone to believe, mine is not since Woodward is Australian and a piano educator and one of the worlds most brilliant living pianists, he actually does teach and it is easily looked up that he does. Let's look up cold readers of rach 3 who can play at tempo because they are gods and such pieces are nothing at all for them.... Hmmmm yea here it is in the fiction section.
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Offline ianzilla

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Bruh are you illiterate?  I told you I've seen sh*t like this before so I don't have too much trouble believing that he sightread it.  Of course I don't know for sure that he did it.  You can't be 100% sure of anything.  But I think it's pretty believable.  Even if he didn't do it I'm pretty sure it's possible.

Sorry but your dumb post is so full of fallacies that it doesn't deserve any recognition.  Don't tell me what I should or shouldn't remember.

If a simple thread like this discouraged others from continuing piano, then they shouldn't be playing piano anyways.  How do you even know if it DID discourage anyone?

Bruh you're the eimmature  one.  why are you trying to rail on me about a topic I got over with THREE YEARS AGO.  I was still in highschool back then I don't remember or care about anything I said.  Let go of the past this is stupid.  You intentionally bring up stupid sh*t JUST to start an argument with someone.  And you know that.  Grow up Kid it's dumb.

You "seeing" stuff like this before doesn't prove that a Sgouros sight read Rach 3.  So you just admitted you have no proof that he did it, you just believe he did it with no proof.  We're arguing because you said Sgorous sight read rach 3 and I said he didn't.  finally you admit this is all just speculation based on seeing an old 60 year old piano teacher read through your sonata.  So since the burden of proof is on you to prove he did it, you are wrong.

stop trying to sound smarter than you actually are.  If you were smarter you wouldn't be sitting on your computer all day in your mom's basement writing lightning quick replies to anyone who critiques what you're saying on piano street.com while being saddened about geniuses on youtube.

I'd let go of the past if you admit you were wrong in the past, but you seem to never admit you're wrong.  If you don't remember of care about anything you said, then why are you still defending what you said back then anyway? you might as well ignore me

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Not pertaining to the string of arguments I posted
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Offline ianzilla

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Not pertaining to the string of arguments I posted

LOL how do you always reply to what I say within like 5 mins?  are you constantly refreshing piano street while eating donuts in your moms basement? you better clean the donut crumbs off your piano too.  How's that used up computer chair doing? do you need a new one? its getting tired from your ass sitting on it all day

Online lostinidlewonder

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I think he's forgotten that this forum actually has professional pianists who have dedicated their life to the art and it is very simple for us to know bs when we hear it. He just sounds like some kid who thinks piano is cool!!! Lol
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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You "seeing" stuff like this before doesn't prove that a Sgouros sight read Rach 3.  So you just admitted you have no proof that he did it, you just believe he did it with no proof.  We're arguing because you said Sgorous sight read rach 3 and I said he didn't.  finally you admit this is all just speculation based on seeing an old 60 year old piano teacher read through your sonata.  So since the burden of proof is on you to prove he did it, you are wrong.

stop trying to sound smarter than you actually are.  If you were smarter you wouldn't be sitting on your computer all day in your mom's basement writing lightning quick replies to anyone who critiques what you're saying on piano street.com while being saddened about geniuses on youtube.

I'd let go of the past if you admit you were wrong in the past, but you seem to never admit you're wrong.  If you don't remember of care about anything you said, then why are you still defending what you said back then anyway? you might as well ignore me

You believe this sh*t all the time.  If someone says they played the appassionata, you have no reason not to believe them because it's possible and they don't have a reason for lying.  The same thing applies for dimitri Sgorous.  I know it's possible, and I don't have a reason to believe my teacher is lying.  So I believe it.

Bitch I go to a university FOR PIANO.  How fast or slow my responses are have nothing to do with my life.  If you're so adamant about proof, what PROOF do you have that I live in my moms basement.  Matter of fact that's probably a reflection of yourself.  Fapping in your moms basement jizzing all over the walls and sh*t.  You probably accidentally jizzed on your mamma and she whoops your ass with a belt for that.

THREE years ago I was bummed out about prodigies.  I don't care anymore.  Drop the past. That sh*t is way over Bruh.  Why do you care about me admitting that I'm wrong so much?  You don't even know me.  Are you gay for me or some sh*t?s
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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LOL how do you always reply to what I say within like 5 mins?  are you constantly refreshing piano street while eating donuts in your moms basement? you better clean the donut crumbs off your piano too.  How's that used up computer chair doing? do you need a new one? its getting tired from your ass sitting on it all day

But wait you just replied to that in less that three minutes? 

Projection is a reflection on yourself.

Stop fapping to pianostreet comments and either have a normal debate or stop talking all together.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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I think he's forgotten that this forum actually has professional pianists who have dedicated their life to the art and it is very simple for us to know bs when we hear it. He just sounds like some kid who thinks piano is cool!!! Lol

You know that I go to university for music.  You know that I know about piano and music.

And you know I wouldn't say something like this if I didn't see it before. 
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Online lostinidlewonder

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Well how you act here I find that hard to believe too now.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Well how you act here I find that hard to believe too now.

Riight cause personality is a reflection on pianism...

Look I know what I saw.  You can either EXPLAIN that what I saw was a sham or say you disagree and drop it. 
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Offline visitor

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don't mind me , just [space] blasting through.

Online lostinidlewonder

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What can be deduced from how you express yourself speaks volumes of your piano knowledge in sight reading at least.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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What can be deduced from how you express yourself speaks volumes of your piano knowledge in sight reading at least.

alright both of you are stupid.  You're not even attacking the argument string I posted.  You're just reciting the same begging the question circular logic bullshit.

Expression has nothing to do with anything.  You're drawing these conclusions from nothing.  However, arrogance has a lot to do with what you're arrogant about.  You say you're the sh*t when it comes to sight reading. So chances are you're not as good as you say.

If you would EXPLAIN, how he duped me, I would be happy to listen and admit that I'm wrong.  But until then I'm holding my ground.
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Online lostinidlewonder

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Not trying to change what you think but just offering my skeptisism since I study with teacher who can sightread the likes of Xenakis but never admitted he can simply do it all instantly without analysis beforehand. Cold reading and reading something you have much experience with are leagues apart. To blur that and say there are people who can cold read anything, it's just silliness, and I don't want to write pages describing how sight reading works!
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Offline timothy42b

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If you would EXPLAIN, how he duped me, I would be happy to listen and admit that I'm wrong.  But until then I'm holding my ground.

I've seen some strong sightreaders pull off some amazing performances.  So I'm not saying it can't be done.  I've never attempted the Rach myself (and know that I don't have enough years left to get to that level anyway!).  

But here's how you can be fooled.  A really strong sight reader with a good theory background can fake the hard parts.  If the music is really dense with notes, can you be sure he's playing all of them, or is he just hitting enough of them to convey the music?  You'd have to be watching the score and his fingers, in slow mo, to be sure.  Well, maybe you can hear faster than I can.  

That said, my mother could apparently sightread anything.  Of course she's long gone and I can't ask her how she did it.  I doubt she attempted anything like the Rach, but I never heard her stumble at anything she did encounter.  
Tim

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Not trying to change what you think but just offering my skeptisism since I study with teacher who can sightread the likes of Xenakis but never admitted he can simply do it all instantly without analysis beforehand. Cold reading and reading something you have much experience with are leagues a part. To blur that and say there are people who can cold read anything, it's just silliness, and I don't want to write pages describing how sight reading works!

The dude never bragged about his sight reading abilities.  I SAW it.  Most of the pieces he probably heard of before, or I played it first before I gave it to him so he knew what it sounded like.  There were a few he's never heard of which wasn't as good as the rest but still ridiculous. MAYBE A few pieces he's played or looked at before because I picked out so much music, but there's no way he's played everything I gave him.

Bruh...  I pulled RANDOM books off the shelf and he did everything.  If you saw what I saw you would probably agree.  I was there with my accompanist (former teacher) with a degree and everything and he was just as dumbfounded as I was.

So I'm gonna hold my ground and say it's possible.  Maybe one day if you find someone like this you'll change your mind.  Or not.  Idk.



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