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In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final (Read 3296 times)

Offline johnmar78

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In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
« on: April 07, 2012, 10:42:02 AM »
Hi folks,

My head kept singing this tune when ever I go, even in the shopping center, I think I might have some mental problem. So I got up next day, jumped on my piano and did 2 takes-of course I warmed up for aprox 10 minutes playing op10-1.

How ever, in my prevous take 2 weeks ago, the main feedbacks was TOO SLOW, and NEEDS more musical expression. So using  relaxzation method I have proved, speed and power comes from muscle relaxzation in a "certain muscle groups". and I have proved my point.
So I did it. No more for this year, I will focus on something else.

I did this morning to capture my mood and piano sound with my second take. Again, no sound editing or any reverbs, or slicing.
This was played with very little pedaling...I hope you like my rendition

Ps, Sorry about my facial expression, and No, I have not got anything in my mouth.... ::)



 Welcome any feedbacks.

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline birba

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #1 on: April 07, 2012, 11:40:05 AM »
you certainly have the fingers to do this etude, if you could just control the tempo and don't let your fingers do the running.  Your mind has to do it.  The second half came out better.  The large musical phrasing is there and like I said, the etude is within your technical possibilities. 

Offline candlelightpiano

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 04:11:43 PM »
That was great, John!  I loved the waterfall effect on those high notes and your hands look very relaxed.  Those relaxation exercises of yours obviously work!  Another lovely etude.  Sad that this is your last for the year.  There's still so many months left this year.  Why is that?  How many etudes have you done?  Thanks for posting.

Offline rachfan

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 07:18:50 PM »
Hi John,

This is your best effort yet, so I can tell you've been practicing hard.  And it's definitely more up to tempo too. You've also developed a good sense of "sweep" as you move through the music.

If I were to point out one thing, it would be that some of the articulations of notes within the meter at tempo sometimes become uneven or ragged, as we say.  If you were to continue practicing, I would suggest that you listen very carefully for those particular spots and bracket them all with your pencil. Then work on the articulation in those measures only using slow, "steel fingers" practice and maybe using dotted rhythm drills too.  Finally, integrate that work back into the performance.

At this point, you might want to give this piece a rest for awhile and shift attention to another contrasting work to maintain a balance within your piano endeavors.

I've never played this etude, John, and don't even know if I could!  So I feel a little odd commenting on your recording for that reason to be honest.  Anyway, my hat is off to you for all your determination, perseverance and hard work.  Very nice playing!

David

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline johnmar78

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #4 on: April 07, 2012, 09:50:21 PM »
thanks everyone, "unevenness " issue will get refined, I need to magnify these spot and slow down a bit and integrate into my playing. At full tempo, you do really need to listen carefully because your finger tips has not got much time to do that adjust...as I have said, i think op10-4 is the hardest one, some may diagree.

Ps.  I wondered, what if I remove all the weights I added for the last 10years), it would be interesting ::) or you call this a technical fraud?

Offline johnlewisgrant

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 10:09:33 PM »
OK... you've got the chops... IIIIFFFF you practice at first slowly WITH the metronome.

Here's what I said at UTUBE....

"you've got the notes under your finger memory.... that's actually the important part. NOW... please practice slowly, and USE the metronome..... Not unlike working at the gym. You see nothing for months (well, weeks, dependent on the kind of circuit training).
 
THEN, after SLOW practice, you can play this like Richter. 

I mean... common... this is a bravura piece ... so you're screwing yourself if you play it anything but perfect. Go for it."

Also... it's downright BAD for your technique NOT to practice it slowly.   You'll wreck the technique you've already built up.

If you haven't heard Richter (but i'm sure you have!) just utube it.   Beyond belief.... but I believe you, too, can do it!!!

JG

Offline johnmar78

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #6 on: April 08, 2012, 01:35:44 AM »
thanks John, of course, slow practice is important , i have never skipped that part, its all in a circle. Yes, Ricter, when he was 45 he played op10-4 in 1.44; when he was old, 65 i think (in colour youtube) he played it 2.30. Bear in mid these professional are putting  4 + hours as there profession PLUS they are gifted too.
Pehaps this is why  world class pianist do not  see on this piano forum ::)

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 01:56:48 AM »
John, see, it's like, you know, if I wouldn't say the truth here, in the case I comment something (be it that I find something really good, that others might perhaps not recognize, or be it that I find something really not so good, and perhaps most of the listeners/watchers don't dare to comment on,) I'd have a really bad conscience!!

So: no, this is really not good, my friend, it is not well played, you are really totally stiff, as Nyiregyhazy (I don't agree with him on other things, but here he is absolutely right) states.

I am also working, on and off, on this Etude and until now I haven't found the real "flow" yet. Of course now it would be easy for you (or everybody else) to say: Oh well, Wolfi's just jealous. But I am not. I couldn't be jealous of a rendition like this, as hard as I'd try, so sorry to say this.

And all my experience as a pianist and piano teacher tells me that there is something extremely tense and stiff in your technique that blocks you completely. Look, you are perhaps playing half of the notes in this piece, not more, The rest is just lost. And your stiffness makes my arm hurt from even only watching it!

I can't say more. Please find someone in real life, a good teacher who can give you good advice. You have to loosen up and find a technical approach that lets your musicality flow instead of holding it back behind walls of unhealthy tension!! Someone that gives you the water, so to say, the water to make you flow and float, the water to make your musical plants/ideas grow and flourish instead of drying out!

 I think it's not possible to give more advice over the internet, and it would be not really responsible, you have to find a good teacher, and if your former teachers really taught you this technique, so sorry to say, then they were bad teachers.

Offline johnmar78

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 04:59:55 AM »
thanks Wolfi, not good, yes, not good . Do I have tensions in my arm, God knows...perhaps you guys dnt do much sports as I do. My relaxzation is what I called relaxzation. I am doing speed drills , and which I never able to do it before. Now I have achieved, so what. Now, back to square one, slow practice....
Are your saying taht my other slower take was better....the one I did 3 weeks ago. I thought it was rather boring.

Wolfi you said peopel might think that you are "Jealous of me"...lol, . In reverse psycholgy, you are suspecting people are, and may be thats the truth you dnt realize.-lack of cofidence. ;D and as matter of fact, you have answered your own question.

 I think posting with video's tends to attract MORE NEGATIVE attentions instead  just a mp3 file, human are biased to what they saw and make there decisions. This is why I close my eye when I listening to others.
 If I do have a stiif arm as you said, then all my previous recordings and other works are all rubbish correct? Now you know why I do not commet on your Chopin op10-1.
My practice op10-1 at 100, is coming soon, you can laugh at  me if i got a stiff arm or not...wait and see. I do not really care to be honest.

My last I AM SICK OF HEARING A FAULSE ACCUSATIPON SAYING I HAVE STIFF ARMS because I DO NOT HAVE> and leave me alone..

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 09:59:07 AM »
Well, whatever it is, if you call it stiffness or if you choose a different name for it, it does not help you at playing this piece. And you DO skip almost half of the notes, that would be exactly as obvious if it were just an audio.
I don't think it would be really helpful if I said: oh so nice, so well done, wonderful, when it isn't, and when there are obviously serious technical issues to solve.

Offline johnmar78

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 03:35:02 PM »
Wofi, I solved the problem, have you ever thought, that I will redo that take with a little slower tempo, the uneveness is casued by rushing thru the passage nothing to do with my arm.  ;Do wait and see.

Offline hakki

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 04:26:10 PM »
I also regret saying this, but I am afraid what pianowolfi has said is indeed very true .

You just have to play it at a slower tempo.
For now just be patient and keep working on this slowly only. The speed will come eventually.

Good luck and best wishes.

regards,

Offline starstruck5

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #12 on: April 09, 2012, 05:45:58 PM »
Like Birba says you have the technique to play this -at the moment I get the feeling you want to play it faster than you are -and consequently you are rushing ahead -it is important that you choose a tempo in this piece and keep a strict pulse -
When a search is in progress, something will be found.

Offline emill

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Re: In with the new out with the old Video Chopin op10-4 final
«Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 01:09:25 AM »
hello!!!! ;D

Well that was NICE!!! ... you've got your shirt tucked and doing a great Gould by mumbling as you play.. ;) ;D ;D and I bet you were complaining about your mother-in-law?? >:( ;D >:( ;D ;D

Seriously, I could sense the tension here and I think a misunderstanding about terms has ensued.  The difference is in - you look like (being stiff or tense in your arms) versus you are (stiff or tense in your arms) .  The former is a perception of the one looking and may lead to a "logical" conclusion that the playing is "uneven" due to such tension.  The latter is the subjective feeling which only the pianist can feel and here you are absolutely sure you do not feel tension or stiffness of arms. I can probably understand your reaction -
...xxx ... I AM SICK OF HEARING A FAULSE ACCUSATIPON SAYING I HAVE STIFF ARMS because I DO NOT HAVE> and leave me alone..
since you do not feel it and have in fact made teaching videos on relaxation.

Wolfi's and the rest of those who posted comments are definitely in the - "you look like" and/or "sound like" area. I think (again a perception, which I have no reason to think otherwise) they all meant well.  Wolfi in particular as he premised his post, wanted to be as "honest" as he could ... and reading his post several times has led me to conclude that it is well within the bounds of civility.

Come on guys ... both you and Wolfi are too nice for this misunderstanding. THANKS.



member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo