Any useful tips and practice to help my left hand play softer?

[littlepolaritons]

My teacher commented that my left hand plays too loudly (when the melody is in the right hand).

I tried to have several runs with just left hand playing and played it as softly as I could for a particular piece, but once I combined both hands, my left hand just get louder naturally and I don't seem to have any control over the volume my left hand played. In my mind I'd be 'softer LH, softer!!!' but to no avail lol.

I think that maybe a good way to practice is to play scales on LH with p or pp. But are there any other tips or suggestions of way to practice so that I can play LH softer?

[oxy60]

How are you sitting? Shift your weight to the other side.

Are you playing on pianos with different bass end response?

[p2u_]

In my mind I'd be 'softer LH, softer!!!' but to no avail lol.

Of course. The real problem is in the music, not in the mechanics of playing. What is in the left hand usually gives meaning to what is happening in the right (there is a direct relationship), even if it seems to be a simple "run" as you say; therefore you should not think of them as separate entities, let alone as an insignificant row of soft sounds. As soon as you find out how they are interrelated, the problem solves itself and your teacher will no longer complain.
P.S.: In music, the whole is often greater than the sum of its parts. It's up to you to find out how to show that to the audience...

Paul

[littlepolaritons]

oxy60 - I'm sitting in front of the 'middle C' which is the center of the piano. I do sometimes think that the bass sounds louder on my piano but I guess that really isn't the case since my teacher hear that I play the bass part louder too so it's probably my problem rather than the piano's.

p2u_ - Hmm.. I don't really get what you mean . I know that LH and RH complements each other and together makes up the piece but I don't understand how becoming aware of that can help with playing LH softer. I am aware and can actually hear that my LH is too loud sometimes just that I don't have much control over my LH volume really.

[p2u_]

I don't really get what you mean.

Listen very slowly and very carefully to how every note (one by one) in your left hand changes/enhances the emotional charge, the "color" of what is in the right. Maybe the left hand is even born out of the melody in the right (I don't know what piece we are talking about). Let it be a little "too loud" for the time being; don't worry about that. What is in the left hand is NOT as insignificant as you may think. As soon as you are really aware of the relationship between the two parts, your left hand will play as needed if you let it.

Paul

[littlepolaritons]

p2u_ - I think I see what you mean now. One example of a piece that I play LH too loud is that the LH is really only playing the accompaniment, like chord progression. It is loud enough that I think it interferes with the melody. I do agree with you that LH takes on an important role at times and not necessarily have to be played soft, like for example many of Bach pieces, the melody line is actually in the LH. I think what you mean to say is that how loudly either hand plays really depend on the piece itself but that is provided that I have a good control of the volume of the hands. For me I realized which part has to be softer but I just played it too loudly when I do it with both hands. I guess it really comes down to practicing more perhaps section by section.

[mcdiddy1]

I am not sure what all the philosopical analysis is going to help you achieve your goal of playing the LH soft. Assuming the music requires the LH to be softer like majority of classical piano pieces here are some practical things to thing about that might help you achieve the effect you are looking for.

Develop a greater sense of arm weight in the left hand. Try to focus your awareness of the muscles in the forearm and shoulders and make sure they have more of a passive, less constricted feeling. If you try to play more from the finger tips rather than involving the entire arm the sound production will get lower.

Think about using more elongated/ flatter fingers in the left hand. The more curved the finger the faster the key moves down and a flatter angle helps reduce the volume.

Think of tickling the keys more as in using more active finger-tips from the smallest joint of the finger rather than the entire unit.

Think about shifting the weight of your hand from your thumb to your pinky. The thumb tends to be the loudest finger because it is the heaviest, Being aware of this and making modifications like leaning or using only the tip of the thumb tends to help this.

Most importantly, learn to listen critically to what you are producing and make sure you know in your mind the sound you are attempting to achieve. When you know what want your sound to be then you can you can make the technical modifications to your playing to achieve it. It one of the suggestions work then use it. If it does not then disregard it. But you need to make sure you have a target so you will know when you hit it.

[p2u_]

p2u_ - I think I see what you mean now. One example of a piece that I play LH too loud is that the LH is really only playing the accompaniment, like chord progression.

I cannot imagine that would be an interesting piece. Search for the musical meaning of that chord sequence! How does it enhance the right hand part?
P.S.: For left hand runs as such, it may help if you play the right hand strictly legato and the left a little portamento (not really physically tying the notes). In that way, you right hand melody has less trouble coming through.

Paul

[hfmadopter]

I agree with the tip to play the left hand with a flatter look to the hand and play off the finger tips more. Just try it and see if that softens things up a bit in that hand. At the same time you may want to try the right hand a bit more over the keys and fingers curved hand elevated slightly. You can bring out a more lively melody line that way ( assuming that's the goal).

Course much depends on the music you are playing too. In some cases you have closed cords going on in the left hand and single notes in the right. In contemporary music or while working up a more modern piece you can open up the cord structure in the left hand but with strict classical you are needing to follow the sheet.

Incidentally, since you have a teacher what is the teacher suggesting you do to fix this ?

[p2u_]

since you have a teacher what is the teacher suggesting you do to fix this ?

Good question. This is what kept me from giving specific advice on mechanics with confusing terms like fingers, weight, shoulders, angles, etc.

It may be enough to think of the right hand as legato and "deeper into the key" and the left hand as portamento and "on the surface" without touching the technical regimen his teacher has in mind. But what I said about the lack of interaction between left and right must be part of the problem. Even a seemingly insignificant alberti bass has musical meaning, while the topic starter says he plays those as "just an accompaniment".

Paul

[hfmadopter]

Good question. This is what kept me from giving specific advice on mechanics with confusing terms like fingers, weight, shoulders, angles, etc.

It may be enough to think of the right hand as legato and "deeper into the key" and the left hand as portamento and "on the surface" without touching the technical regimen his teacher has in mind. But what I said about the lack of interaction between left and right must be part of the problem. Even a seemingly insignificant alberti bass has musical meaning, while the topic starter says he plays those as "just an accompaniment".

Paul

Good points Paul. I was concerned about the teachers thoughts on the matter, that's why I brought up the question regarding the teacher. Any ideas here shouldn't undermine the teachers work with the student. That is to say, using suggestions from here instead of the teachers ideas.

Course if there are no ideas from the teacher then nuff said !

[krajcher]

I also have less control on my left hand.

When I want to be more concerned on it, I just play my right hand on higher keys and I find it more easily to play left hand as I wish.

[hfmadopter]

I also have less control on my left hand.

When I want to be more concerned on it, I just play my right hand on higher keys and I find it more easily to play left hand as I wish.

If you have a teacher this approach will not pass I assure you ! Same thing for original scores that you need to keep original ( most classical for example). Even with Fur Elise you need to gain control over the left hand for volume, touch, timing, clarity. Chopin Sonata No2 Op. 35 third movement, left handed trill, shared cords shared intensity ( listen to how Horowitz mastered this some time). Ave Maria, the Shubert/Liszt version the melody moves to the left hand, in fact parts are shared left and right. Surely you can't just decide you are going to go up an octive and fix it all can you ? In that Ave Maria version the right hand is well occupied already anyway when the melody moves to the left hand. Listen to Lazar Berman play that one. I'll provide links if you wish.
David

[krajcher]

If you have a teacher this approach will not pass I assure you ! Same thing for original scores that you need to keep original ( most classical for example). Even with Fur Elise you need to gain control over the left hand for volume, touch, timing, clarity. Chopin Sonata No2 Op. 35 third movement, left handed trill, shared cords shared intensity ( listen to how Horowitz mastered this some time). Ave Maria, the Shubert/Liszt version the melody moves to the left hand, in fact parts are shared left and right. Surely you can't just decide you are going to go up an octive and fix it all can you ? In that Ave Maria version the right hand is well occupied already anyway when the melody moves to the left hand. Listen to Lazar Berman play that one. I'll provide links if you wish.
David

You are right, playing Fur Elise and other pieces that you mentioned in that way won't help, my mistake.
But that kind of practising suits me when I play polyphonic music. And really help me. I just hear better voice in my left hand.

[hfmadopter]

You are right, playing Fur Elise and other pieces that you mentioned in that way won't help, my mistake.
But that kind of practising suits me when I play polyphonic music. And really help me. I just hear better voice in my left hand.

I understand. I move an octive up in some show tune style music, Broadway hits etc, in fact I move it all around, I may even play full octives. I might take the easy reader version and work from it vs a more complicated version so I feel free to do so. Moving up an octive or two can give piercing results to a melody, but filling in an octive lower with full big cordal structure can really be moving too. Depends on the piece and my mood. But not for classical.

[j_menz]

The problem, as it seems to me, is quite a common one at a relatively early stage.  I'd make three suggestions:

1) play some Bach

2) play some pieces with a staccatto in one hand and a legato in the other (even scales will be fine for this)

3) play the piece deliberately trying to make the LH louder, then try again trying to make it softer, then try to vary it on different notes/beats.

What you are lacking is independence of the hands and LH control. The above will help you get it, but also ask your teacher for help.

[oxy60]

oxy60 - I'm sitting in front of the 'middle C' which is the center of the piano. I do sometimes think that the bass sounds louder on my piano but I guess that really isn't the case since my teacher hear that I play the bass part louder too so it's probably my problem rather than the piano's.

p2u_ - Hmm.. I don't really get what you mean . I know that LH and RH complements each other and together makes up the piece but I don't understand how becoming aware of that can help with playing LH softer. I am aware and can actually hear that my LH is too loud sometimes just that I don't have much control over my LH volume really.

Thank you for coming back to us. Often these threads are started, we all chime in and the original poster disappears.

Every piano I sit down at is different. So I must compensate in real time. After a few notes I know what I must do.

The first step is for you to hear the difference. Then try to get it to sound right to you. Record some of it and listen. Do you agree with your teacher?

[pianoyutube]

First: You should play only with your left hand the piece. Slow and pianissimo.
Second:play only with your left hand the piece. Normal speed and volume.
Third: After you are able to do this, play with both hands, slow and piano.
Fourth: After playing slow and piano with both hands, you can mix playing at normal speed and volume, and playing slow and piano. You'll master the piece.

[scottmcc]

Play a big cmaj chord, 4 notes per hand, and hold it down.  Now superimpose a cmaj arpeggio over this, slowly, letting one finger up at a time while holding the others down, and go up and down a few times.  Now try repeating the whole block chord, but with the weight given to just one of the notes of the arpeggio at a time.  If you do it right, you should be able to make the arpeggio sing over the chords.  You can of course substitute other chords instead of cmaj if you desire.  This skill is one of the more difficult to truly master, but will definitely help take your playing to the next level.

[cjp_piano]

One of the most effective practice techniques to achieve quiet sound in one hand while the other hand is loud:

GHOSTING!

I can't believe no one has suggested this yet, it works wonders!

You simply "ghost" the hand that you want to be quiet. "Ghosting" means that you still move your fingers/hand/wrists/arm just as you would when playing, but you don't actually make any sound or depress any keys. In effect, you're "pretending" to play. The key is to do this in your LH while actually playing the RH. Go ahead and play the RH loud/full. Once you do this several times to get the sensation, then you can start actually playing the LH, keeping the sensation of less weight into the keys. 

Good luck!

[pianoplayjl]

I often have a similar problem. When I was playing Beethoven recently there were many Alberti bass. The teacher suggested to me to raise my elbow when playing Alberti bass or other sections where the right hand is louder. When I play the left hand louder than the right hand when it is supposed to be the other way round, I often think to my self that I am not ready to put a piece hands together.
You can try perhaps: when the passage or chord is legato, play it staccato and vice versa. If you are playing chords int he left you can practice it alone and try playing each chord as quickly as possible while at the same time staying quiet. And don't put too much weight on the keys. Practice  hands seperate as much as possible.

JL

[costicina]

It's off topic, but: welcome back, Pianoplayjl!!!!  We've been missing you....

[littlepolaritons]

Wow thank you all for the reply! Sorry for the late response I was really busy the past 2 days.

mcdiddy1 - Thanks! A lot of practical tips, the flatter fingers sound like a particularly useful I can try. I'll definitely experiment them to see how they work for me.

p2u_ - I think many classical pieces especially beginner ones do have relatively simpler bass line. I wouldn't say they are not interesting though. Sorry I'm not familiar with the term 'portamento'. I looked it up and this is what I got 'A technique of gliding from one note to another without actually defining the intermediate notes'. Do you mind elaborating a bit on the technique?

hfmadopter - Actually playing the scales in 'pianissimo' was what my previous teacher suggested. She say if I still play my LH too loud, I should just increase the volume of my RH, but I guess that's not really a long term solution. My current teacher (which I only had 3 lessons so far) only pointed out that my LH sounded too loud and asked me to watch out for it, she didn't suggest any way as to how I can accomplish that. I should ask her on my next lesson!

krajcher - Well that's a good trick too. But I'm looking for a long term solution to this .

j_menz - Thanks! You're right. I think I lack hands independence. Any Bach pieces in particular you would suggest and how do you think playing Bach will help. For the 2nd suggestion, do you mean playing staccato scales? Or playing scales both hands with one hand staccato and the other legato? I'll try the 3rd one too, that seems like it will help to gain more control of the LH.

oxy60 - I do agree with my teacher. I can hear it myself that I play it too loudly. Maybe if I can manage to record it I can attached it up here.

pianoyutube - That is the usual routine that I normally practice. Maybe I can try playing the piece again much slower and see if I have a better LH control.

scottmcc - Sounds like an interesting routine. But what do you mean by superimpose? Do you mean for example, hold down the chord on left hand and play arpeggios on the RH?

cjp_piano - Do you mean like just touching the keys using the LH but don't actually depress them?

pianoplayjl - You mean for a legato piece try to play it staccato and for a staccato part try playing in legato? But how does that help though? I think you're right I may have to practice more with hands separate.

Again, thanks everyone for the reply

 

[p2u_]

Sorry I'm not familiar with the term 'portamento'. I looked it up and this is what I got 'A technique of gliding from one note to another without actually defining the intermediate notes'. Do you mind elaborating a bit on the technique?

Heinrich Neuhaus (teacher of S. Richter, E. Gilels and other great pianists) used this term for what is generally called "portato". It's a slightly detached touch, neither legato nor staccato. It's one of the great secrets of transparent piano playing.

Paul

[cjp_piano]

cjp_piano - Do you mean like just touching the keys using the LH but don't actually depress them?
 

YES!! Try it! But you still have to move your fingers/hand/arm, that's why it's called "ghosting"

[j_menz]

j_menz - Thanks! You're right. I think I lack hands independence. Any Bach pieces in particular you would suggest and how do you think playing Bach will help. For the 2nd suggestion, do you mean playing staccato scales? Or playing scales both hands with one hand staccato and the other legato? I'll try the 3rd one too, that seems like it will help to gain more control of the LH.

Pretty much any Bach will do it, so pick something within your capabilities. 2 part inventions or Anna Magdalene Notebook are good to start with.

I mean staccato in the left and legato in the right and vice versa. This encourages you to develop an independence in the hands. You will probably find it quite difficult to start with, but perservere and it will do wonders.

[ajspiano]

I have to agree with Paul, the musical context is a massive help here and should be the ultimate factor. But, depending on your level, you may get totally stalled by trying to focus on that without doing some kind of physical challenge first. Most people have a lot of difficulty with creating independent dynamics between the left and right hand when first attempting it because they don't have a whole lot of experience focusing on multiple things at once. Consequently, they may focus on notes, and the dynamics fall apart, or focus on dynamics and the notes fall apart.. etc. The physical ability to have left/right independent dynamics can be done quickly and easily in isolation by practicing things those things already suggested in the context of a very familiar pattern of notes - such as a scale.

This is really helpful because focusing just on the musical context doesn't always work, people will focus on a quieter left hand in context with the right, and as a result the right hand will instinctively match the left hands dynamic. This exact situation happened with a student of mine last night, although it was a case of bringing out the RH without the LH also increasing in volume. He could accent the RH fine, but this resulted in the LH "wanting" to function at the same volume. If we'd just battled through this in context of the piece he'd have become very frustrated very quickly, as so much focus was required to achieve the different dynamics that he began having memory and/or reading slips with the notes.

With a scale however, he was able to "ghost" within 1 or 2 attempts despite thinking it was "way too hard" on the first try.

Alternative touches, RH legato, LH staccato.
Ghosting.
Crescendo LH Diminuendo RH (harder )

^invert the challenges of the left and right hands as well.

Ghosting can more easily be done in the context of the piece too, rather than the scale alone. Because you may not always want to practice your LH staccato against your RH legato if the piece ultimately demands legato both hands.

J_menz is also heavily on the money with bach.

[scottmcc]

Wow thank you all for the reply! Sorry for the late response I was really busy the past 2 days.

mcdiddy1 - Thanks! A lot of practical tips, the flatter fingers sound like a particularly useful I can try. I'll definitely experiment them to see how they work for me.

p2u_ - I think many classical pieces especially beginner ones do have relatively simpler bass line. I wouldn't say they are not interesting though. Sorry I'm not familiar with the term 'portamento'. I looked it up and this is what I got 'A technique of gliding from one note to another without actually defining the intermediate notes'. Do you mind elaborating a bit on the technique?

hfmadopter - Actually playing the scales in 'pianissimo' was what my previous teacher suggested. She say if I still play my LH too loud, I should just increase the volume of my RH, but I guess that's not really a long term solution. My current teacher (which I only had 3 lessons so far) only pointed out that my LH sounded too loud and asked me to watch out for it, she didn't suggest any way as to how I can accomplish that. I should ask her on my next lesson!

krajcher - Well that's a good trick too. But I'm looking for a long term solution to this .

j_menz - Thanks! You're right. I think I lack hands independence. Any Bach pieces in particular you would suggest and how do you think playing Bach will help. For the 2nd suggestion, do you mean playing staccato scales? Or playing scales both hands with one hand staccato and the other legato? I'll try the 3rd one too, that seems like it will help to gain more control of the LH.

oxy60 - I do agree with my teacher. I can hear it myself that I play it too loudly. Maybe if I can manage to record it I can attached it up here.

pianoyutube - That is the usual routine that I normally practice. Maybe I can try playing the piece again much slower and see if I have a better LH control.

scottmcc - Sounds like an interesting routine. But what do you mean by superimpose? Do you mean for example, hold down the chord on left hand and play arpeggios on the RH?

cjp_piano - Do you mean like just touching the keys using the LH but don't actually depress them?

pianoplayjl - You mean for a legato piece try to play it staccato and for a staccato part try playing in legato? But how does that help though? I think you're right I may have to practice more with hands separate.

Again, thanks everyone for the reply

 

Hold down all eight notes of the chord c major (c, e, g, c, e, g, c, e). Now lift you left 5th finger and play the note (c), while keeping all the other fingers in place.  Now lift your left 3rd finger and play the note (e).  And so on. If you have done the Liszt technical exercises with holding down notes while playing others this will seem familiar.

[p2u_]

p2u_ - I think many classical pieces especially beginner ones do have relatively simpler bass line.

OK, I’m sorry I wasn't able to find the right words to tell you what I really mean. I’ll just let somebody else do the explaining for me. A video is sometimes worth more than a thousand words.

Please start from 2:09. I've written out for you what Sebok is saying so you won't miss a single detail.

[showing excerpt of the middle section in Chopin’s funeral march.] “Now here the way one has to think is a little bit tricky. Obviously, the beautiful melody is in the right hand. So our instinct tells us that we concentrate on the right hand and we sing that melody as beautifully as we can. And then comes a vicious circle; the left hand doesn’t have enough attention so cannot play as well as it should be. Then your attention goes to the left hand in a kind of little bit of worrying way and you try to play these long notes here” (referring to the right hand melody) “and to express something that on the piano you can never express with one note.” [Showing right hand sustained note] “… doesn’t work.”  [Showing again sustained note in right hand but this time with the left hand evolving from it]… That explains this note… so to speak. Obviously, the other moving voice explains the steady voice.

And so on. From my experience I can tell you that mechanical movements or even abstract thinking in terms of "loud" and soft" separated from musical goals NEVER solve the problems; one has to find a musical solution, a concept, an idea to convey. This does NOT mean I reject any of the other more temporary solutions given to you by my colleagues.

Paul

[ajspiano]

And so on. From my experience I can tell you that mechanical movements or even abstract thinking in terms of "loud" and soft" separated from musical goals NEVER solve the problems; one has to find a musical solution, a concept, an idea to convey. This does NOT mean I reject any of the other more temporary solutions given to you by my colleagues

The other solutions are a case of competency I think - ultimately its far easier to express an idea or emotion than it is to mechanically try to play one hand soft and one hand loud. On the other hand, see how you go expressing yourself on the spot in a spoken language you are not familiar with, without first mechanically figuring out what words you need to say and how to get you vocal chords around them.

I'm not sure where OP is at with that, but in regard to my student from yesterday - he's an adult that came to me recently having had lessons to about grade 4 as a child. The idea of just "feeling" loud and playing it, rather than thinking "loud here", and that loud means moving the keys faster, thus fingers go faster - consciously do this...  was completely foreign to him before meeting me. There's no way I could've tackled the challenge just by focusing on feeling the musical idea. Success could be found in a short mechanical example, so that there was a known physical feeling to associate with the sense of RH loud LH soft, and because doing this gave him a sense of "yes I can do this" rather than "this is way too hard for me to do in the context of these notes" ...once he could physically do it, feeling could be added.. I don't think it wouldve worked the other way around here.

[j_menz]

And so on. From my experience I can tell you that mechanical movements or even abstract thinking in terms of "loud" and soft" separated from musical goals NEVER solve the problems; one has to find a musical solution, a concept, an idea to convey. This does NOT mean I reject any of the other more temporary solutions given to you by my colleagues.

With respect, the OP is currently studying towards ABRM Grade 3.  I agree with you wholeheartedly for more advanced students, and especially for advanced players, but the ability of the hands to convey musical solutions is something that has to be developed, not something that comes naturally.  The "temporary solutions" are a means towards that end.

[p2u_]

On the other hand, see how you go expressing yourself on the spot in a spoken language you are not familiar with, without first mechanically figuring out what words you need to say and how to get you vocal chords around them.

The topic starter knows the words already. Actually I'm sure he can play softly if he wants to (he doesn't seem like a complete beginner to me). Now, if you start teaching him intonation in a mechanical way, what he tells you in that foreign language will sound awkward, unnatural. Native speakers will think he has an accent. Searching for the musical beauty in that language, however, solves the problems. [I know, because I'm fluent in 9 languages, but that's out of scope here.]

Paul

[p2u_]

With respect, the OP is currently studying towards ABRM Grade 3.  I agree with you wholeheartedly for more advanced students, and especially for advanced players, but the ability of the hands to convey musical solutions is something that has to be developed, not something that comes naturally.  The "temporary solutions" are a means towards that end.

What Sebok is saying there is as elementary as can be. He doesn't even talk about "loud" and "soft"; he's just telling us that "you can't sustain long notes on the piano". That's why moving lines kind of explain, sustain, give meaning to those long notes. This is ALWAYS the case. I don't think that's something that exceeds the motoric or mental capabilities at level grade 3. Of course, the student is not supposed to invent that kind of things himself; it's the teacher who should teach the mindset from very early on.
P.S.: Did you notice that Sebok actually plays the left hand notes louder than the student did?

Paul

[ajspiano]

I don't think that's something that exceeds the motoric or mental capabilities at level grade 3.

Maybe in an ideal world where all piano students have exceptional teachers that instill the right concepts from day 1 - and where all piano students practice enough, and with enough disciplin/direction regarding efficient learning that they aren't spending the bulk of practice time just reading the notes and finding their way around the keyboard....  and having that situation apply more or less right through to diploma level.

[p2u_]

Maybe in an ideal world where all piano students have exceptional teachers that instill the right concepts from day 1 - and where all piano students practice enough, and with enough disciplin/direction regarding efficient learning that they aren't spending the bulk of practice time just reading the notes and finding their way around the keyboard....  and having that situation apply more or less right through to diploma level.

Yes, I guess you are right. But the fact that the topic starter even starts a topic about this problem is a sign, though, that he's an exception and that there is hope for him.
P.S.: I've always assumed that beginners won't work effectively on their own. At that stage, the teacher is not there to check whether they've done their homework (limiting themselves to general remarks like "Your left hand is too loud; it must play softer. Here's another piece. That's 50$. Thank you. Goodbye"), but to help them practice effectively in the lesson. Ideally, when the lesson is over, they already know what to consolidate at home. This makes them work a lot harder and they are generally happier about their progress than those who have teachers with a more "traditional" approach.

Paul

[ajspiano]

Yes, I guess you are right. But the fact that the topic starter even starts a topic about this problem is a sign, though, that he's an exception and that there is hope for him.

yes, this is true.

Ideally, when the lesson is over, they already know what to consolidate at home. This makes them work a lot harder and they are generally happier about their progress than those who have teachers with a more "traditional" approach.

yes, it doesn't always happen though because of "life" - I actually know of an unfortunate child who is learning the trombone at school. When at home his mother actively discourages practice and whenever he tries to she tells him how horrible it sounds and to "shut up" - I've personally seen this happen :/ - I didn't take it very well and told her about it obviously - but I'm certainly not there to fix it every day and encourage him. While thats an extreme situation, I'm sure there are a lot of kids in a mildly similar situation where music is not considered a high priority within the home. For adults, work life and/or family responsibilities can take away from it.. I don't think that many beginners get into piano with an understanding of the long term dedication it takes to get good at it.

That's a whole different thing though, I doubt that applies to OP and is getting a long way off track.

[j_menz]

I agree that there is hope for the OP. Indeed, recognising a problem is the most important step towards solving it.

I actually know of an unfortunate child who is learning the trombone at school. When at home his mother actively discourages practice and whenever he tries to she tells him how horrible it sounds and to "shut up"

I learnt the bagpipes for a while, and had much the same response, except they came from people in the next town across.

[ajspiano]

I learnt the bagpipes for a while, and had much the same response, except they came from people in the next town across.

for me it was the drums/electric guitar - apparently there's only so much "chainsaw" music that some residents can handle before they call the police on a bunch of 13/14 yr old punkrock wannabes.

[littlepolaritons]

The more I read the replies from you guys, the more I realized the importance of developing hand independence. It's a valuable skill that I think in the long term will not only help in playing 1 hand softer than the other but also help in many other ways.

p2u_ - Thank you for the video and quote. I agree with you from the start about the importance of the musical content itself and the importance of the 'interaction' of LH and RH. But like others pointed out, I think I have to get over the technical difficulties first before I can play the way I want it to.

cjp_piano - All right I'll try it!

j_menz - Aren't the inventions a bit too difficult? (I am grade 3 ABRSM) I have played 2 or 3 pieces from the notebook before and a prelude from Bach.

ajspiano - I very much agree with you and could also relate to the experience of your student. There is definitely a compromise between dynamics and playing the piece correctly. If I focus on 'feeling' the piece and the dynamics, I would be really engrossed to the music and end up 'reading' less on the notes and end up making a lot of mistakes. If I focus on getting the notes right, I will play too carefully and compromising much of the dynamics. As for now, I think I should solve some of the more technical part of my playing then focus on the playing later. Of course ideally I should be able to do both, but I just think the technical part is more of a problem to me now.

Actually my family complains a lot about my playing too. Like my scales are really noisy (I actually agree, because the piano is very loud and it's in the living room, I use damper pedal now  whenever my family is watching TV or finds it annoying), they also complain my playing is horrible etc. I wasn't discourage by what they say though, as an adult, I think I can handle it better than I could if I was learning it at a younger age. I am lucky that I have tolerant neighbor though. 

scottmc - Thanks for the clarification. I actually think I saw a video before illustrating this technique. I should look up the Liszt exercise that you mentioned too.

Anyway, I tried to record my playing yesterday. It will be a bit painful to listen to as I make a lot of mistakes and I still could not play it well yet . But I hope gives you an idea about what I'm talking about. I actually think this time around I was able to play LH softer than I usually do, but tell me if it's still too loud. I know there's still much I need to work on this piece, but feel free to comment about anything else other than the speed too.

Here's the recording:
https://www.compoundtime.com/Jovensky/entries/10754

Just click play from the page.

[zezhyrule]

they also complain my playing is horrible etc.

Wow. Well, your family sure sounds encouraging.

[littlepolaritons]

Wow. Well, your family sure sounds encouraging.

Oh well to be fair, 80% of the time I am 'practicing', making lots of mistakes, correcting them and the piano is loud so I guess if I'm at their position I probably would find it annoying too .  But my goal is that to keep practicing hard and one day I would actually be making music out of the piano rather than 'noise'.

[p2u_]

Anyway, I tried to record my playing yesterday. It will be a bit painful to listen to as I make a lot of mistakes and I still could not play it well yet . But I hope gives you an idea about what I'm talking about. I actually think this time around I was able to play LH softer than I usually do, but tell me if it's still too loud. I know there's still much I need to work on this piece, but feel free to comment about anything else other than the speed too.

It was not as painful to my ears as you thought it would be. I am also sure now that the assumed "inability to play your left hand softer" is NOT YOUR REAL PROBLEM. Both your hands lock up in places because you are not able yet to combine them in that piece. Practice hands separately as all kind people here recommended you to do and you'll be OK.
P.S.: I'm very sorry to hear you don't get the support you need at home.

Paul

[p2u_]

Oh well to be fair, 80% of the time I am 'practicing', making lots of mistakes, correcting them and the piano is loud so I guess if I'm at their position I probably would find it annoying too .  But my goal is that to keep practicing hard and one day I would actually be making music out of the piano rather than 'noise'.

While learning the notes, you don't have to play the piano for very long if bothering your housemates is a concern. After you have a general idea of what the music is about you can:
1) practice the movements (and the keys) in your head;
2) practice the movements on a table top (draw a paper keyboard if necessary);
3) practice on a silent keyboard (if you have one available) and sound the notes on your real piano only when you are sure about the movements;
4) practice on the piano without pressing the keys.

As soon as you sound the music on your piano, try to make real music, even hands separately. Do not delay this process by mechanically drilling/repeating what you have to learn. You have everything in you to be successful in what you want to achieve.

Paul

[ajspiano]

ajspiano - I very much agree with you and could also relate to the experience of your student. There is definitely a compromise between dynamics and playing the piece correctly. If I focus on 'feeling' the piece and the dynamics, I would be really engrossed to the music and end up 'reading' less on the notes and end up making a lot of mistakes. If I focus on getting the notes right, I will play too carefully and compromising much of the dynamics. As for now, I think I should solve some of the more technical part of my playing then focus on the playing later. Of course ideally I should be able to do both, but I just think the technical part is more of a problem to me now.

AND

As soon as you sound the music on your piano, try to make real music, even hands separately. Do not delay this process by mechanically drilling/repeating what you have to learn. You have everything in you to be successful in what you want to achieve.

littlepolaritons -
This is why its best to work on small sections that you can learn fast, and you size your practice sections within a piece to match what you can mentally/physically accommodate - in my teaching example I isolated the technical and created something that could be learnt in a short amount of time, then created a technical from the piece (we did the same thing on a 1 bar section), then put the section back in context with the music (over a 5 bar section) - you never get good at music without practicing music. The idea is only to isolate exactly what the problem is and fix it, so that you can get back to music as soon as possible, and ultimately spend the bulk of your practice time on music, not on learning the notes.

Paul seems to have given you a bit more direction on what exactly is getting in your way. I'll be interested to see what progress you make over the next little while.

[j_menz]

j_menz - Aren't the inventions a bit too difficult? (I am grade 3 ABRSM) I have played 2 or 3 pieces from the notebook before and a prelude from Bach.

You will find them difficult. That said, the chief difficulty in playing them is the independence of the hands, which is precisely what you are needing to work on, so it will be effort well spent.

Good advice from Paul and AJ above, too, to which I add my vote of support.

[ajspiano]

It will be a bit painful to listen to as I make a lot of mistakes and I still could not play it well yet

While non-pianists may think such a thing... Pianists and/or piano teachers that take an interest in a "students corner" thread are not expecting flawless virtuosity, rather they have been through exactly what you are doing and understand its a long term process - and in most cases probably enjoy hearing students attempts to play and learn their instrument (we do all share the same artistic passion here). Speaking for myself, I thrive on hearing flawed performances and being able to help piano students improve them - I get far greater satisfaction out of this than out of listening to a professional standard performance that I can't discuss directly with the pianist.

..on the inventions -
I recommend you read bernhards write up on how to learn invention no.1 and start there, using it as a model for how to study following ones..  and all other pieces you ever study just about

This invention is thought to be around grade 5. However don’t let this deter you – I have taught it to complete beginners  - including a five-year-old.

Have a look here:

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2714.0.html

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2714.0.html - don't skimp out on the reading - scroll down, there is an ENTIRE practice schedule of exactly what to do session to session. - reply No. 14.

^this link is the same as in the quote, however you'll see I've replaced "forum.net" with "street.com" - this may be necessary for other links within the thread.

[littlepolaritons]

Thanks Paul for the help and I'm glad the playing wasn't as bad as you thought

ajspiano - I'll keep in mind your advice to spend most time practicing music. Also thanks for the link. Looks like a very useful schedule I could use. I think I'll try the inventions after my exam.

Anyway, I have tried a few methods. In particular I actually find the ghosting technique very useful. I have more control on the hand and could play softer. In addition it also helps me to imagine the melody in the left hand while ghosting which I'm sure will help my aural skill too.

I also tried playing staccato scales in one hand and legato on the other. Surprisingly, it wasn't as difficult as I thought. I could play it smoothly within a few tries.