Performing for prospective students...(?)

[m1469]

I met with a new student yesterday and the whole thing went just fine.  But, toward the end, the mother asks me "so, when will we get to hear you play?" as though I should break out something highly impressive right then and there in that very moment.

I have a problem with this on several levels.  

1.  I believe it is ignorance that says a teacher has to be a fabulous performer (in general, but also more irritatingly, at all times and in all circumstances) to be a teacher worth the money.  And in the above circumstance, I think only a fabulous performance is called for (which, in all honesty, I am not currently prepared to give on the spot like that) as they are desiring to be further sold on my ability as a pianist (I can understand this to an extent).

2.  Even if I felt in evey fiber of my being that I could deliver a stunning performance on the spot and in those circumstances, there is something I have against being forced to share at somebody's whimsical and ignorant request!

3.  In the circumstance of meeting with a prospective student, it is my teaching that I wish to sell, not my performing.  Although, for many people, selling my performing ability would sell my ability to teach without them truly knowing the difference.

I told them that I might play something for them next week, and that I will be giving a solo concert in the spring where they can see me perform.  But, that's the best I could do.

Should I in the future, just swallow my own irritation with these circumstances and go ahead and be a dam* piano monkey?  Should I have a few pieces ready and waiting for requests like this?

What do others do in these circumstances?  

What do students, and/or parents expect?

Thanks so much, in advance,
m1469 Fox

[monk]

Well, as a professional musician you should have some recordings of yourself anyway.

There's no need to have a "real" CD that can be bought in many stores; but you should have demo recordings - they are useful for gigs also!

And then your situation is no problem - you just hand them out your recordings and say: "And then you can hear me unhurriedly at your living room all day long ;-)"

Best Wishes,
Monk

[Egghead]

Dear m1469Fox,

I understand your irritation! As I gather you feel you are being judged on your performing skills rather than your teaching skills, and that in any case it is demeaning to have to prove your worth in this way.

I must admit that as a student, I had not previously thought of it that way. At my level of learning, whatever you would play on the spot would almost certainly impress me!
What did you do during your meeting with the new student?

In an ideal world, when looking for a teacher, I would want to sit in on a lesson (I am not aware teachers offering this!), have a trial lesson, and talk to students on their own. And yes, I would also like to see (and hear) the teacher play (or practice for themselves). This bit could of course be part of the lesson.
I would NOT be interested in a polished performance. Nor does a CD-recording give me the relevant info. I would look for: does the teacher express the music, appear to love piano-playing, is s/he comfortable/relaxed while playing, does s/he maybe even use the playing as a teaching opportunity etc.

And yes, if it sounded worse than my own playing, I would call the whole thing off before it gets more embarassing...

Just a few thoughts from "the other side". Please let me know if this makes any sense to you.
Egghead

[m1469]

You're right Monk!  I never thought of that (I am still really to new to all of this stuff!).  I suppose it is time for me to have something like that around.  It feels progressive, which is good.

I think that I got slightly stupid and carried away up above.   Should I expect to play for people when they ask?  Perhaps I make too much of it.  What do you do?

Also, my students will be holding a recital in about a month.  One parent in particular is practically begging me to play something this time (she has never heard me really play before).  She says, "it reminds us of why we send our kids to you every week."  Well, that kind of bothers me also!  But, maybe it shouldn't.

I feel that it may be inappropriate for me to play a solo piece at my students recital for several reasons (need I embellish?).  What do you think?

m1469 Fox

[m1469]

Dear Egghead,

(I feel sorta mean calling you that)

What did you do during your meeting with the new student?

Well, when I talked with her mother on the phone previous to our first meeting, I told her that I would like to hear her daughter play for me so I know if and what I have to offer her (basically).  So, she came prepared to play.  

I have two pianos, one old and one brand new.  And, since she is a transfer student and already knows how to play a bit, I had her choose between the two to play on for me.  I wanted to see what she would choose and why.  I wanted to see if she had developed an ear for what she likes or not.  

Then she played for me.  I didn't say much about the piece as far as criticisms go.  I feel it is probably pretty tacky to critique in these circumstances as this is a piece she has had for a long time and feels very confident with.  I just wanted an idea of where she is at.  I asked her a couple of questions, and that was it as far as the piece went.  I was able to learn what I needed to know for now, from that.

Then, I asked her what her other interests are.  I like to know what I am competing with as well as express an interest in them as a person right away.  I chose one of her acitivities to draw parallels to piano study with, I believe it was a successful parallel.

Through interaction, I aim to show her what I am about.  I talked briefly about what we will be covering during our lessons together.  We set goals for next time she will see me, and that was it.  I don't charge for this first meeting either.  I tell them it is a chance for us to get to know eachother (it is our trial lesson).

I have two pianos for the purpose of me being able to demonstrate or accompany.  This I am not worried about because it is all part of the lesson (not normally on the first meeting though).

I do have friends of students (and student's mom tells me that friend may be interesting in starting piano again) sit in on lessons on occasion (especially when I am at the student's house).  I try to include them in little ways and see if I can spark an interest and if they respond to me.

I guess I do perform for them sometimes.  But, I am pretty choosey about the circumstances.  I am always careful to see that it will truly accomplish what the purpose is that it is supposed to be serving.

But, I guess I am wondering if I should start preparing pieces to perform for prospective students when they come 'a callin' and just expect this as though I am auditioning for them   .

m1469

[pianoannie]

m1469,
I actually liked how you worded that last statement (although you may have saying it sarcastically, I'm not sure)---the part about you auditioning for them.  I do view my first meeting with a prospective student and parent as somewhat of a two-way interview.  They know from our phone conversation that this meeting is for them to decide if I would be the kind of teacher they are looking for, and if I think the child is one who would work well with my style of teaching and my personality.
   I would not be offended if a student or parent wanted to hear me play.  In the case you posted about, it may or may not have been a matter of "let's see if you play well enough for us to choose you as a teacher." Maybe the mom just wanted the child to get excited about piano by hearing what a well-trained pianist sounds like.  And of course, to someone with limited musical understanding, a good teacher=a good performer.
  Actually when a prospective student or parent asks me to play, I generally ask if they'd like to hear something that some of my students have enjoyed learning.  I tell them that this is something the child might expect to be able to play in "x" number of years (appropriate to the piece) if he is willing to work hard.  
  See, it doesn't have to be some flamboyant, painfully difficult piece to impress them.

[rlefebvr]

As a student, I too have always wanted to see what the teacher could do with a piano. This reinforces my respect for the teacher.  I now know this is false and stupid as being a great pianist will not make you a great teacher and there are to many great pianists who can't teach as it is.

I think you may also be misinterpreting the parent and student wishes, however. As a student learning the piano, I get quite the rise from seeing it done by someone who knows what he is doing and to hear your teacher play is often simply for personal pleasure. "teacher played for me today. Man, that was awesome." It's no different then when friends play for me that are way above my talent level. It's like a free gift and it's not Chirstmas.

However, I do not believe you should "perform' for any student as this is not your function" Having a CD near you is great self promotion for you as a performer and a great idea. Sitting down with complete seriousness and performing for a parent or student is uncalled for. They just want to see someone "really" play the piano. There will be plenty of times for you to show off when you are trying to teach a student the way a piece should be played or when a student as not really practiced and there is time left.. This should be enough. This will be enough.


Just saw what pianoannie wrote and it'd right on the mark.

[ChristmasCarol]

Hmmmmmmmm, interesting,
I always include a sample - just a few bars of a number of different styles in the first lesson and then ask the student which one they like.  I think you're over the top thinking of a performance here.  They just want to hear a few bars of the Warsaw Concerto. lol  you know splash and trills.  A lot of people have absolutely no idea how to judge a good teacher but "know what they like".  

[shasta]

m1469 Fox

I don't understand why you're so conflicted on playing for the parents --- they are the ones employing you to teach their kids.  If you sent your child to take pottery lessons with an artist, wouldn't you enjoy seeing the artist's creations?

I think you're misinterpreting the parents.  They're not "testing" your pianistic abilities (what reference would they have to compare you to, anyway?) so much as they're simply curious and interested in hearing you play!  The parents are probably weary of hearing their own kids plunk on the piano and would really enjoy hearing a more advanced, more professional musician.

Be flattered by their interests in you!!  Perhaps you could arrange a nice, casual sunday afternoon get-together with the kids and parents and play a couple pieces for everyone as they mill around (don't set up chairs or formal audience seating), enjoying coffee and biscotti or something.

[m1469]

I don't understand why you're so conflicted on playing for the parents --- they are the ones employing you to teach their kids.  If you sent your child to take pottery lessons with an artist, wouldn't you enjoy seeing the artist's creations?

Because I have not known what is appropriate.  Most of the things that people have suggested, including your helpful suggestions, have been new to me.

Prior to this thread, I thought I was supposed to "perform" for them, and that bothered me.  I didn't know it is appropriate to play only portions of something as pianoannie suggested, or casual things like your Sunday afternoon idea.

This is why I began this thread, because I have not known what is expected.  I have only been teaching for a few years, and this year will be my most professional year yet.  I also teach in a place where my teachers are quite well known as loved performers.  I often feel like I have to be on as a "performer" at all times because I am their student.  

Actually "performing" is very personal and is something special to me.  I have a hard time just "getting there" in a stituation like what I have mentioned, especially when I don't feel like that's what they are looking for.  But, I realize now that my playing for people doesn't always have to be a "performance" in the way I think of it.  Perhaps they just want to see my fingers move around the piano.

Basically, I was seeing in black and white and with no in between.  But, everybody's suggestions have helped me see a bigger picture, and I am appreciative.

By the way, I do see my first lesson with my students as though they are interviewing me also.  I just wasn't too keen on the idea of thinking I had to "perform" for the audition (that seems rather backwards to me).

Is it appropriate for me to play a solo piece at my student's recital as I am being asked by a parent to do?

Thank you for all of your suggestions and thoughts!  I very much appreciate them all and they have been helpful.  I would appreciate any more suggestions that you all may have.

m1469

[ChristmasCarol]

I think you should play at the recital if you want to and only if you like the idea.  There are no recital or piano teacher police.  Just because someone asks you to do something does not mean you are obligated.  Thank them very much for their interest and say you thought about the idea and you really want the focus to be on the students.   End of discussion.  How many times have I seen people ask someone to play for them and three seconds into the music they turn to someone and start talking.  In general, people don't know what they don't know.  

[shasta]

Is it appropriate for me to play a solo piece at my student's recital as I am being asked by a parent to do?

Absolutely!  Regardless of your years of training, you are still a student of music, just like your students.  Perhaps you can do some 2-piano or duet pieces with your students at the end, and then close with a solo of your own.

On a personal note, m1469 Fox, my old prof was a pupil of Arrau.  In all the years I studied with him, he never once sat at the piano himself or performed for any of us.  NEVER.  EVER.  (We used to joke that maybe he really didn't know how to and was secretly a cellist or something)  

I would have loved to have heard him, to watch him, to listen to him, to see him execute all those technical and emotional aspects of performance that he emphasized in us.  It really would've been a joy, not for the purpose of judging him as a musician, but simply to enjoy his interpretations and hope that someday I might attain 1/10th his talent and expertise.

[jazzyprof]

As a student, yes I would want to hear my teacher play a bit during our initial meeting.  It need not be a whole piece...it could be mere fragments, excerpts.  It is not a performance.  It's more like a demonstration of the concepts she plans to teach me.  I would like to see and hear how she produces a nice tone on the piano.  If her tone is harsh, for example, I don't know how she can teach me to produce a nice, round tone.  If she is tense and awkward, I don't know how she can teach me to be relaxed at the piano.  Most importantly, does she love the instrument and does she have fun at it?  

On the other hand, I don't think you should feel compelled to play at your students' recital.  It is really for the students to show off their new found skills under your expert tutelage:-).  If the parents want to hear you play they should buy a ticket to your next recital!  

[timothy42b]

You don't really know the motivation of the parent, nor their degree of musical sophistication.

They are probably partly being polite and social, partly want some inkling of what their child may accomplish - not necessarily with you, just with any exerienced teacher. I think their focus is on their child, not you.  At least that's what I'm thinking when it is my child.  I don't think they are testing you as much as honestly interested.  

They are not looking for a concert performance and probably will not detect subleties of interpretation.  They will appreciate fluent technique on something short and quick.  

Whether you choose to share that is up to you.  I don't think any parent expects the teacher to be a Horowitz.  I think they are impressed if you still consider yourself a learner, still have a work ethic, still are practicing and improving.  In your busy schedule, do you find time to practice?  No?  then how do you expect a child to?  <grin>  

Could you do something like play a one or two minute snatch of a piece that you know very well and expect to assign the new student?  And maybe mention what repertoire you are working on in your own career?  I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I'd be careful not to get defensive.  Parents do detect that, in a flash.  If you really wanted to prepare this thing, especially with a younger student, you would probably play 8 bars of something they should play now, then 8 of something in 6 months, 8 in a year maybe.  Keep it very short.  Parents have less attention span than children, if it's not a formal concert.  

And of course, at some point your student should surpass you, if they are really talented.  No need to prepare for that day yet, I guess.  

[timothy42b]

Another thought.  

My piano teacher doesn't play duets with me, but then I'm really a beginner.

In lessons I've taken on other instruments, duets were always the highlight, and probably how I learned the best.

In a recital scenario, duets with the students would never violate any rules of decorum, even if you're uneasy about playing solos.  

[palomalou]

I see it as perhaps not an "audition" but more like a blind date! If I don't think I'd be the right teacher, then I send them on their merry way with with a name or two or three of other teachers. If it looks good from my end, I give them a mini-lesson during which I certainly demonstrate some things.  

[m1469]

I thought about this thread the other day and realized that since the time of my starting this thread, I have changed my attitude about this subject quite dramatically.  Thanks to my many teachers who have come in many forms.  Suggestions on this thread (and by reading others too, of course) have been helpful.

I now take many opportunities to play for my students including sight-reading (which is not one of my stronger points.. yet  ).  I am happy to take my students up on their requests for me to play something for them and I treat it as a great opportunity for me to learn.  I have found my students to be quite respectful in this and there are often surprising lessons we learn from the experience.  The quality of the relationship between us even seems to improve.

Anyway, Thanks 

m1469

[abell88]

m1469, thank you for bringing this thread to light...there were lots of good posts.

I play a little at my students' recital -- not a solo, but accompaniments for rhythm ensembles and occasionally for singing. My son's teacher always plays at his student's recitals, and it's a treat to hear! Although I'm not as performance-oriented as he, I'm considering working up some pieces to play next year...only problem is most of my students are very young and often have younger siblings in the audience.

[thalberg]

Hi, m1469,

I'll just share with you my little trick for when people ask me to play for them.  I don't argue, I immediately say yes, and I play the first variation from the Goldberg Variations.  It's about thirty seconds long, it's cheerful and pretty, and it sounds good at most tempos, so you can take it slower when you're out of shape or faster when you're in shape.  Since it's what I *always* play for strangers, I know it well enough where I don't miss notes anymore at all.  It's very quick and painless, then they're satisfied and the whole situation is over.

[m1469]

thalberg, this is a fabulous suggestion, what great advice.  I shall definitely have something similar prepared.

Thanks for posting,
m1469

[thalberg]

As far as playing at student recitals is concerned, I personally would never feel comfortable playing a solo. So I'm with you on this.  Certain negative and critical parents may even call you an egotist.

But if the parents really bug you----play a duet with one of your students.  Parents ALWAYS are so extremely charmed by this.  They think it is just so touching how the excellent mighty teacher will play along with a little youngster.  You'll be a hero.  I learned this when I shared a recital with another piano teacher, and she played a duet with a five year old, and all the parents came up to me afterwards and said, "that was so cute when they played that duet.  Oh I just loved that!  Do you ever do that?"  Of course I was thinking, "well, I do now."

[thalberg]

Your post came up just as I was posting my last one--I'm really glad I was able to help!

[m1469]

As far as playing at student recitals is concerned, I personally would never feel comfortable playing a solo. So I'm with you on this.  Certain negative and critical parents may even call you an egotist.

But if the parents really bug you----play a duet with one of your students.  Parents ALWAYS are so extremely charmed by this.  They think it is just so touching how the excellent mighty teacher will play along with a little youngster.  You'll be a hero.  I learned this when I shared a recital with another piano teacher, and she played a duet with a five year old, and all the parents came up to me afterwards and said, "that was so cute when they played that duet.  Oh I just loved that!  Do you ever do that?"  Of course I was thinking, "well, I do now."

Yeah, actually I have ventured into playing some duets with my students at the recitals.  The last two recitals we have had I have played a little with them and you're right, the parents love this.  I did play one solo piece, a piece that one of my students composed and had asked if I would play.  I felt like that was okay to do, though I am still a little uneasy about rattling off some kind of *solo moment*.

You'll be a hero.

Well, I shan't pass up an excellent opportunity to be a hero... he he

Double thanks,
m1469