Chopin Major Works

[jorley]

Which one of Chopin's Major Works are the most reasonable to start out with as your first one? The following are the ones I am talking about, how would you rank these from easiest to hardest?

Scherzo 1, 2, 3, 4
Ballade 1, 2, 3, 4
Fantasie Op 49
Polonaise Op 44, Op 53
Polonaise-Fantasie
Nocturne Op 48 1
Barcarolle

[marklang]

To start I recomend you the nocturn, I think it is the most acessible of that works

It is dificult to rank them, but both polonaises as sherzos and ballades are very difficult, I recommend listening to the pieces. Try Zimerman, really good Chopin interpretations.

[49410enrique]

my guess would be if you're up to playing one of them,you are probably okay to play anyone you want. just pick the on you like the most.

also your access to good instruction, i.e. piano teacher/professor who is very familiar (prerrably has 'performed' it themselves) is probably pretty important to consider. i'd ask their guidance.

also i'm not sure why it's only these choices, why not a set of shorter pieces, i.e a set of nocturnes, several etudes, a hand full of preludes, some waltzes, etc.  or mix and match, why not an etude, a nocturne, a waltz, a prelude, etc.

unless you're bound by formal curriculum requirment i'd almost venture to say you could customize your own 8-13 minutes of difficult chopin music to really dial in on what challenges you want, and musical ideas you want to explore and convey.

[beebert]

They are all difficult. However, the Nocturne as stated above, is probably the most accessible, mainly because it's not nearly as long as the other pieces. Otherwise, I think the Polonaise Op 44, the 3rd Ballade or one of the first three Scherzi would be doable as a first "major work" by Chopin.. Stay away from the 2nd and especially the 4th ballade though! Those are insane.

If I had do a ranking of these pieces(even though I would say it's not really possible), I would rank them(from hardest to easiest):

1. Ballade 4
2. Ballade 2
3. Scherzo 4, Ballade 1, Polonaise Op 53
6. Barcarolle, Fantasie Op 49
8. Polonaise Op 44
9. Scherzo 3, Scherzo 2, Ballade 3
10. Scherzo 1, Nocturne Op 48 1

[danhuyle]

The order I learned it

Ballade 1
Ballade 3
Scherzo 2
Scherzo 3
Scherzo 1
Scherzo 4
Fantaisie Op49
Ballade 2
Ballade 4

That's all the Chopin music I'll ever want to play. I haven't played the others.

Speaking of which, how is Polonaise Fantaisie? I've had my eye on it for a while and haven't even touched that yet.

[j_menz]

What other Chopin have you played?  That will affect what you are likely to find easier, although if you are up to playing any of these you should be able to judge the relative difficulties for yourself.

[jorley]

 By Chopin I have earlier played: Op 9 No 2, Op 17 No 4, Op 10 No 3, Op 27 No 1, Op 28 No 1, 2, 3, 4, 14, 18, 23 and Op 37 No 2. Other than that I have played Beethoven Op 13 and 26, Brahms Op 118 No 2, 3 and 6, Schubert Impromptus Op 90, Schumann Op 12 No 2, Bach Italian Concerto and Prelude & Fugue No 10 and 22 from book 1.. And some other pieces..

Which piece would be most suitable for me? I wonder, is the Op 48 No 1 harder than any of the other major works by Chopin that I listed, or is it the easiest?

[werq34ac]

The nocturne you mentioned is probably the easiest (BUT NOT EASY).

Of the Scherzi you mentioned, I'm told that 1 is the easiest, but I'm guessing it's because of the lack of actual music you need to learn (About 2/3 of it is repetition) and the coda is not that big a monster compared to say, the 2nd ballade.

Scherzo2, I bang through that piece just for fun. The only real hard parts are in the middle I find, but that's just while I bang through it so don't take my opinion too heavily

Scherzo 3, I actually found this the most difficult to read through besides 4, Slow sections need a bit of work with the descending cascades of notes. And of the first 3 scherzi, I found 3's coda the most difficult.

Scherzo 4, I'm told it's the hardest one, though I've never taken the time to read through it.

Ballade 1, I've read through, and obviously the biggest technical challenge is the coda, though the 2nd page is fairly difficult technically. Musically this piece is a monster (all of the ballades are). I've seen way too many butchered 1st ballades, though that might just be due to the popularity.

Ballade 2, More difficult than 1 and the coda is an absolute biotch (DOUBLE NOTES EVERYWHERE).

Ballade 3, the only ballade I've actually learned, of the 4 ballades it's the easiest (I'd say same difficulty as the 3rd scherzo). Most of the technical issues come at the end, starting with the C#m section. Another musical monster, but I don't think it's as bad as the other 3 ballades

Ballade 4, Declared by most to be Chopin's most difficult work (Although my teacher thinks that the Barcarolle is more difficult). Technically, it's HARD. Harder than any of the etudes. Except it's main difficulty lies in the fact that it's one of Chopin's most mature pieces and so musically it's one of Chopin's most difficult.

Barcarolle, not as technically difficult as the 4th ballade, but playing well requires absolute mastery over the double notes (not fast, but they are required to be absolutely smooth and melodic). Another one of Chopin's most mature pieces.

Polonaise-Fantasie, I didn't find technically difficult. I don't know much about the piece, but it's late Chopin so assume the worst.

Polonaise 53, technically difficult, musically not as intense or deep as other late Chopin, but it's a beautiful piece and must be played thus. Not much to say, there's lots of octaves in the middle section, and a bunch of jumps and scales and whatever.

Polonaise 44, I read through it, I'd say it's easier technically than the Heroic polonaise, but more difficult musically

Fantasie, Technically, it's got a few issues, but lighter than the Scherzos and the ballades. I'm told it's easier than all of the scherzi and the ballades

[jorley]

So werq, you recommend starting with Op 48 No 1? If not that one, which of the other pieces do you think is the easiest and most suitable to begin with? When reading the score I find myself seeing that the first Scherzo is harder than the second, at least to read...

[danhuyle]

The best answer is to learn in the order best suited to your memory and technique.

They all have their own set of difficulties.

[philb]

Op 48 No 1

I would hardly consider that a "Major" work of Chopin.

[j_menz]

I would hardly consider that a "Major" work of Chopin.

You may consider double posting that here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=46919.0

[49410enrique]

PS
thought that if we are discussing 'major works' it is interesting that the word concerto hasn't been mentioned. i think they're pretty major.

as a starter i would try a single movement vs the entire thing.

the romance is so lovely and can stand it's own ground as a single performance solo as demonstrated in their great version from the 2009 First Internatinal Chopin Piano comp for amateurs.

there are several ver of this, all great.

there's also full three mvmnt 50+ page transcriptions too by
a few guys we might have heard of like Tausig and Mikouli. There are other versions of just the romance too but Balakirev I think shines the most.

PS PS
also why not a sonata? is it not a major solo work?

[werq34ac]

So werq, you recommend starting with Op 48 No 1? If not that one, which of the other pieces do you think is the easiest and most suitable to begin with? When reading the score I find myself seeing that the first Scherzo is harder than the second, at least to read...

I said the nocturne was probably the easiest. Keep in mind musically it's much more difficult than the first 3 scherzos.

Anyway, yeah the 1st scherzo is the easiest scherzo(I hear). Personally I didn't have any trouble at all with the first two scherzos so I can't tell you much, but this is after I developed the technique and musicality for these pieces. Although one could say, one can never musically mature enough. Subject for another debate.
Back on subject, the first scherzo has two major technical issues. The A section and the B section. You nail those, you've got 90% of the piece technically. The other 10% is the coda (these are just technical difficulties). Musical difficulties, acknowledging that the piece IS repetitive. Now whether you decide that's a good thing and you just want to present the sections as is OR whether you decide that no, repetition is a bad thing, and so you need to change some things around, whatever. Just be aware that the piece has to be one of the most incredibly repetitive major works ever written. Also, the middle section has the challenge of playing the melody, well melodically. Bring it out and shape it. It takes a little practice but the challenge isn't as monumental as say, the Chopin Barcarolle or Liszt Chasse Neige. And then the coda. I'd say it's probably one of the easier Chopin codas I've played. Make sure your coda doesn't sound panicked or, on the other extreme, boring, and it should be fine. Learning the piece takes no time at all. Developing the technique, takes a bit more time. Developing the musicality, hey if 11 year olds play it, then it can't be that bad right?

2nd scherzo, I've only done wild run throughs with no intent to play it well (though my coda is pretty exciting as a result). Anyway, major technical issues, arpeggios. The piece is somewhat repetitive, but there's a lot more new music to learn in this piece. Technical issues are more varied (which is probably why it's considered more difficult than the 1st scherzo.) I guess the biggest issue with this piece is the arpeggios and maybe the jumps with the chords/octaves. I haven't had any lessons on the piece so I"m not sure what to say about it musically, but I guess you just have to keep the mood/emotion. Just be exciting where the music is exciting and tender where the music is tender. Which brings up an almost completely unrelated point. When playing exciting music, be exciting, don't be excited.

3rd scherzo I haven't played enough to get a good idea, but I think all I need to say about that piece is in the previous post.

3rd ballade I've actually played. Lot's of technical issues, lot's of musical issues. And still it's the easiest ballade. It's actually my first major Chopin work, though looking back I wish I'd done a Scherzo before I tackled it. And now I've written too much so i won't go in depth with this piece. Write me if you want to hear more, but I'd prefer not to.

[chopin2015]

Ballade no 1

[david456103]

I'm probably not qualified to judge difficulty rankings, but from what I've read, studied, and listened to I can say that IN GENERAL:
Scherzos: 1=2=3<<4
Ballades: 3<=1<=2<4
Polonaises: Op. 44=Op. 53<=Op. 61<Grande Polonaise Brillante
Nocturne is the easiest. I'd rank barcarolle in between ballade 3 and 1.
For which one to start with, the answer is any of them. As long as your technical ability is reasonable and you have a reasonable amount of experience, I'd recommend you go for the one you like the best. FOr example, the only one on the above list I actually learned was the Op. 53 polonaise. Since I loved the 4th ballade, I decided to go for it, despite stuff I heard about it being extremely difficult. As of now, I'm doing great with the piece. As long as you work hard, you can learn any of these pieces.

[beebert]

I'm probably not qualified to judge difficulty rankings, but from what I've read, studied, and listened to I can say that IN GENERAL:
Scherzos: 1=2=3<<4
Ballades: 3<=1<=2<4
Polonaises: Op. 44=Op. 53<=Op. 61<Grande Polonaise Brillante
Nocturne is the easiest. I'd rank barcarolle in between ballade 3 and 1.
For which one to start with, the answer is any of them. As long as your technical ability is reasonable and you have a reasonable amount of experience, I'd recommend you go for the one you like the best. FOr example, the only one on the above list I actually learned was the Op. 53 polonaise. Since I loved the 4th ballade, I decided to go for it, despite stuff I heard about it being extremely difficult. As of now, I'm doing great with the piece. As long as you work hard, you can learn any of these pieces.

Let me add that the Nocturne is PROBABLY the easiest. This certainly does not mean it's easy.. It's problably easiest because of its length, but I would actually argue that the Doppio Movimento section is harder or at least as hard as everything in Chopins second Scherzo.

[wbl24]

I think technically the Nocturne's the easiest out of the entire lot, mainly because for 2/3rds of it the technical aspects are not hugely difficult - even the "cadenza-esque" B section isn't all that difficult given enough practice. The main part to look out for technically is the final A section, and how you are going to sustain the tripleted left hand against the right hand in a controlled, sonorous matter...

...which leads me to say that the Nocturne Op 48 no 1 is MUSICALLY very difficult. It's grave, it's like a funeral match, it needs to be steady and most of all it needs to sing. You can make Polish grandmothers cry with the piece if you work at it (I did ) if the musicality's down.

Try it, and weep at its beauty. Maybe use it as a counterbalance against more technically demanding pieces for a good pairing.

[jorley]

I have decided to start with either Fantasie Op 49 or Barcarolle Op 60. Which of these to would be the most appropriate you think?

[scherzo123]

All of Chopin's work are too beautiful

[werq34ac]

I have decided to start with either Fantasie Op 49 or Barcarolle Op 60. Which of these to would be the most appropriate you think?

Don't underestimate the Barcarolle. Fantasie would be safer. As in, not botching the whole damn thing safer.

[49410enrique]

what about doing an entire works cycle like the entire preludes Op. 28?
i think most manage to clock in around the 35 minute mark which is very manageable since you have so many 'breathers' both built in between works and within the set as well.

[philb]

Don't underestimate the Barcarolle. Fantasie would be safer. As in, not botching the whole damn thing safer.

I would think it much easier to Botch the Fantasie.

[beebert]

The Fantasie is probably easier than the Barcarolle.. philb, what do you mean by "botch"? I have heard some people say the Fantasie is up there with the Ballade 4 as the hardest piece he wrote, but I have also heard some consider it the easiest of his Major Works.. When I look at the score it doesn't scare me that much.. What makes it so difficult?

[werq34ac]

I would think it much easier to Botch the Fantasie.

Hey, my teacher considers it more difficult than the 4th ballade, or at least as difficult. Fantasie, from what I hear is easier than the Scherzos.

[beebert]

I don't think it is easier than the scherzos

[ruvidoetostinato]

Which one of Chopin's Major Works are the most reasonable to start out with as your first one? The following are the ones I am talking about, how would you rank these from easiest to hardest?

Scherzo 1, 2, 3, 4
Ballade 1, 2, 3, 4
Fantasie Op 49
Polonaise Op 44, Op 53
Polonaise-Fantasie
Nocturne Op 48 1
Barcarolle

Scherzo 2, Scherzo 3, Scherzo 1
Ballade 3, Ballade 2
Ballade 1
Ballade 4
Barcarolle

[beebert]

I am sorry, but how do you find the 2nd Ballade the second easiest piece? The 2nd Ballade is brutal, and IMO much harder than both the Fantasie and the Barcarolle.. How many of these pieces have you played?

[chopin2015]

Fantasie is pretty easy.

Ballade no 2 is what I will work on after Scherzo no 1.
I have already finished Ballade no 1, I would say the hardest part in any of these pieces is PRESTO!!!! That is what is most impressive about these pieces when the pros play them, how clean you can keep the rythm of one hand against the other, and how fast and clean you can execute the most intense parts.

Good luck.

[ruvidoetostinato]

I am sorry, but how do you find the 2nd Ballade the second easiest piece? The 2nd Ballade is brutal, and IMO much harder than both the Fantasie and the Barcarolle.. How many of these pieces have you played?

I've studied the Ballade 1 and 2 and Scherzo 2 and 3 and have read/played through the rest of the Ballades and tried to read through Barcarolle. 

However, the Ballade 2 was the latest of the ones I've studied so maybe I'm mistaking its difficulty due to it being something I studied when I began practicing more consistently. 

I can see it as being more challenging than Scherzo 1-3, maybe even Ballade 3.
I still can't really see it (at least for me) as being more difficult than Barcarolle. 

[beebert]

I would say that the 2nd Ballade is harder when it comes to learning the notes than the Barcarolle. But you need an extremely good musical understanding and technique to make a good rendition of the Barcarolle, but actually the same goes for the Op 48 no 1 Nocturne. To make something out of that piece is harder than any of the first three Scherzi, however, to just learn the notes is probably easier.

[werq34ac]

Fantasie is pretty easy.

Ballade no 2 is what I will work on after Scherzo no 1.
I have already finished Ballade no 1, I would say the hardest part in any of these pieces is PRESTO!!!! That is what is most impressive about these pieces when the pros play them, how clean you can keep the rythm of one hand against the other, and how fast and clean you can execute the most intense parts.

Good luck.

What's impressive about the pros when the play it is the pure emotion. They understand the music that's what's impressive. I know many many many students who are perfectly capable of executing the presto of the first ballade cleanly. With musicality. You really don't know Chopin if you think that technique is the most impressive thing about him.

[chopin2015]

Oh please bite me, with some jazz. Thanks.

I know plenty of people who can play with emotion and still make mistakes. Not as impressive when the piece-you memorize! You did not write.

"They all look at their hands and play the wrong notes most soulfully"

is a quote from a book called Chopin: pianist and teacher.

You should look it over?

[invictious]

I think most would suggest Ballade 3 in A-flat Major or Scherzo 2 in C-sharp Minor first. They are both still challenging works by any means.

As to the Polonaise-Fantaisie Op.61, nor the Fantaisie Op.49. I was always under the impression that the former is quite difficult, and I am not in any position to comment on the latter.

As you can tell from my signature, I am currently working on Polonaise 'Heroique' Op. 53, and this also happens to be my first major scale work. I have always loved this piece so I always have the patience to overcome any technical difficulties. It is quite challenging, but I am enjoying myself and having a sense of satisfaction from learning this piece. In fact, I have got all the notes down, and I am just polishing up many many many many areas which require work!

[beebert]

Yes, those pieces are a reasonable start. Actually, Ballade 3, and both the 2nd and 3rd Scherzo are okay. Of those, I would suggest the 3rd Ballade, as I prefer it over the Scherzos. The Polonaise Fantasie and Op 49 aren't really that much harder to just get the notes down, but they require MUCH more from the musician to bring up to a reasonable level. If you have the notes down in the to Scherzos you are preatty much done, but when it comes to these to pieces, you have only just begun. Same actually applies to the 3rd Ballade..

[werq34ac]

Oh please bite me, with some jazz. Thanks.

I know plenty of people who can play with emotion and still make mistakes. Not as impressive when the piece-you memorize! You did not write.

"They all look at their hands and play the wrong notes most soulfully"

is a quote from a book called Chopin: pianist and teacher.

You should look it over?

And if you played note perfect and with no soul, then there would have been no point in playing the notes int he first place.

[chopin2015]

And if you played note perfect and with no soul, then there would have been no point in playing the notes int he first place.

That, I will agree with!

[vitruvius]

I think most would suggest Ballade 3 in A-flat Major or Scherzo 2 in C-sharp Minor first. They are both still challenging works by any means.

As to the Polonaise-Fantaisie Op.61, nor the Fantaisie Op.49. I was always under the impression that the former is quite difficult, and I am not in any position to comment on the latter.

As you can tell from my signature, I am currently working on Polonaise 'Heroique' Op. 53, and this also happens to be my first major scale work. I have always loved this piece so I always have the patience to overcome any technical difficulties. It is quite challenging, but I am enjoying myself and having a sense of satisfaction from learning this piece. In fact, I have got all the notes down, and I am just polishing up many many many many areas which require work!

I can actually play through the polonaise-fantasie (at a very slow speed) on first read. I can't do it for any of the ballades. The polonaise-fantasie is much easier technically. But as with all long and structurally complex works, the difficult part is keeping everything in cohesion. Think Liszt Sonata.

[beebert]

I can actually play through the polonaise-fantasie (at a very slow speed) on first read. I can't do it for any of the ballades. The polonaise-fantasie is much easier technically. But as with all long and structurally complex works, the difficult part is keeping everything in cohesion. Think Liszt Sonata.

I don't agree with the Polonaise-Fantasie being easier than the ballades; it's definately harder than the 3rd one, maybe at the same level as the 1st(the 1st ballade being slightly harder).