Good piano warm up and finger conditioning?

[williamraym]

Do you guys have any good exercise that could condition all your fingers?

[j_menz]

A WTC Prelude and Fugue a day keeps all sorts of evils at bay.

[jhein]

A WTC Prelude and Fugue a day keeps all sorts of evils at bay.

++++

[hfmadopter]

I'd say just about anything Bach ! Inventions work. I also do nothing music ( I call it nothing music), take any chord, C will do and play arpeggios in both hands or arpeggiate the left and put your own melody in the right, in correct time. Do the modulations to get to the cadences and play through them. You can spend a half hour on this, sounds beautiful and it's absolutely nothing music. People ask what was that song ? The reply, it wasn't anything !! Some day I'll title it as a song : It Wasn't Anything.
David

[williamraym]

thanks for the replies guys, hearing the sound of bach's works seems to be a good warmup.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

A WTC Prelude and Fugue a day keeps all sorts of evils at bay.

I hate to admit it but... 

Yeah, you're right.

[j_menz]

I hate to admit it but... 

Yeah, you're right.

Fixed your formatting. 

[ajspiano]

I hate to admit it but... 

Yeah, you're right.

I thought they were too hard for you and you only knew one of them.. Its the same as with apples, - you can't eat the same fugue every day and get the same nutrition every time.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I thought they were too hard for you and you only knew one of them.. Its the same as with apples, - you can't eat the same fugue every day and get the same nutrition every time.

Hey I know TWO preludes and fugues mister!  

I eventually got used to the prelude in A flat major.  And the fugue is getting there.

But yeah, Boch is the only think I can play with cold hands.  Besides some other miscellaneous stuff, but whatever dude...

But I wouldn't compare Bach fugues with apples because I like apples.  I think of it as cough medicine.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Fixed your formatting. 

That's the ONLY time I will EVER agree with you on Bach!

You got that?!?!?! 

[j_menz]

But yeah, Boch is the only think I can play with cold hands. 

Including computer keyboard, apparently. 

But I wouldn't compare Bach fugues with apples because I like apples.  I think of it as cough medicine.

More a daily tonic. For the hands and the soul.

[j_menz]

That's the ONLY time I will EVER agree with you on Bach!

You got that?!?!?! 

Yessir!

Until the next time.

 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Including computer keyboard, apparently. 

More a daily tonic. For the hands and the soul.

How do you know I have cold hands?  I just came back from skating, so my blood is still pumping!

Or taking out the trash...

[ajspiano]

I wouldn't compare Bach fugues with apples because I like apples.

lol.

Apples, - better than a bach fugue.

I'd probably eat them more frequently on that recommendation.

I think of it as cough medicine.

You're sickness may lead to an addiction to the prescribed med.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yessir!

I will never go against your judgement on Bach

 

Now that's what I like to hear!  

[rachmaninoff_forever]

lol.

Apples, - better than a bach fugue.

You're sickness may lead to an addiction to the prescribed med.

How about I do a week of Bach only and see how 'addicted' I become of it.

It would be very difficult, but I think I can manage...

[ajspiano]

How about I do a week of Bach only and see how 'addicted' I become of it.

Maybe,  who knows..  that kind of thing just hits you though, there's no prescribed time frame. Ask perprocrastinate, he was all "man I don't like this invention, then.. he kind of woke up with an obsessive compulsive desire to learn it, and bach's complete works"

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Maybe,  who knows..  that kind of thing just hits you though, there's no prescribed time frame. Ask perprocrastinate, he was all "man I don't like this invention, then.. he kind of woke up with an obsessive compulsive desire to learn it, and bach's complete works"

Nah dude...  As long as I have my Carl Vine, Scriabin, and Rachmaninoff,  I'll be juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine!

[ajspiano]

Nah dude...  As long as I have my Carl Vine, Scriabin, and Rachmaninoff,  I'll be juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine!

Your steadily growing list of "the only composers worth playing" amuses the hell out of me.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Your steadily growing list of "the only composers worth playing" amuses the hell out of me.

But then there's Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Prokofiev, Ligeti, Mozart sometimes Debussy, Ravel, Stanchinsky, Nikolai Roslavets, Shostakovich, Schoenberg, Arno Babadjanian, and Stravinsky!

I'm sure there's more that I can't think of from the top of my head.  But not all of those composers like me.  For example Chopin.  What the heck dude, I don't know what's his freaking problem!  And Mozart is like an annoying cousin. 

[perprocrastinate]

But then there's Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Prokofiev, Ligeti, Mozart sometimes Debussy, Ravel, Stanchinsky, Nikolai Roslavets, Shostakovich, Schoenberg, Arno Babadjanian, and Stravinsky!

I'm sure there's more that I can't think of from the top of my head.  But not all of those composers like me.  For example Chopin.  What the heck dude, I don't know what's his freaking problem!  And Mozart is like an annoying cousin. 

I question your lack of love for Alkan.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I question your lack of love for Alkan.

Alkan doesn't like me very much either.  He's like the big kid at the play ground who beats everyone up and steals their lunch money.  He's not very nice to me. 

[j_menz]

Alkan doesn't like me very much either.  He's like the big kid at the play ground who beats everyone up and steals their lunch money.  He's not very nice to me. 

Haha. Actually, Alkan will continue to elude you whilstever Bach does.  Get started on your week, only 46 P&Fs to go! 

[j_menz]

Now that's what I like to hear!  

And cheap forgery is the only way you ever will.  Go do the remaining 46. Shoo!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

And cheap forgery is the only way you ever will.  Go do the remaining 46. Shoo!

I'll only do that once I've mastered every work by every composer.

Except for Rach prelude op 23 no 2, op 3 no 2, half of Mozart, and some other miscellaneous stuff. 

Then...  Bach will have my attention...

[ajspiano]

I'll only do that once I've mastered every work by every composer.

Then...  Bach will have my attention...

#thingz_that_make_pianistz_rofl

[j_menz]

I'll only do that once I've mastered every work by every composer.

Then...  Bach will have my attention...

OK, but name any pianist of renown who didn't reverse your ordering.

[ajspiano]

OK, but name any pianist of renown who didn't reverse your ordering.

I was thinking that it would be fair to say its pretty much impossible to "master" any work, by anyone, without having engaged in an extensive study of counterpoint, and that any study of counterpoint would be practically non-existent without the inclusion of bach..

[j_menz]

I was thinking that it would be fair to say its pretty much impossible to "master" any work, by anyone, without having engaged in an extensive study of counterpoint, and that any study of counterpoint would be practically non-existent without the inclusion of bach..

Not sure I agree. There are plenty of works that don't really have a contrapuntal element.  I think that you mean polyphony (or at least I'd agree with you if you did). 

There are no significant works that don't have a polyphonic element, and often a very significant one. Whilst it is possible to learn to deal with that without Bach, Bach seems the most thorough and best way. 

Also, if one were to master polyphony without Bach, he would come as a pleasant surprise, not the rude shock rach-forever seems to find him.

[ajspiano]

Not sure I agree. There are plenty of works that don't really have a contrapuntal element.  I think that you mean polyphony (or at least I'd agree with you if you did).

I'm sure that is what I mean, - its not that all works are contrapuntal, its that the study of contrapuntal works significantly improves ability to manage the "inner hearing" element. Where most people can focus on a melody line, and perhaps hear that inside while they physically play a whole range of harmonies around it, they don't really "hear" the harmonies inside, and the  relationships between tones.

After contrapuntal study, the ability to truly grasp all the harmony simultaneously is improved, one can hear every note, and control each note individually within the harmonic landscape..


I presume that is what you mean by polyphony?

[j_menz]

I presume that is what you mean by polyphony?

In part. I also mean the horizontal relationship between those elements  as well as their part as internal elements of the vertical.  I agree that counterpoint is a great aid in developing both aspects, so I think we're just looking for the right word to describe the same thing.

[ajspiano]

I also mean the horizontal relationship between those elements

That would be the part I neglected to mention in my previous post..

I think we're just looking for the right word to describe the same thing.

yes.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Oh and if you're not an avid fan of Bach, scales can warm you up!

And to respond to J Menz, I'm still thinking...

[ajspiano]

name any pianist of renown who didn't reverse your ordering.

....I came here to say "Johann Pachelbel" but unfortunately you said pianist rather than keyboardist.. :/

[j_menz]

....I came here to say "Johann Pachelbel" but unfortunately you said pianist rather than keyboardist.. :/

It's actually possible that Pachelbel met Bach once (when Bach was 9). Pachelbel was quite connected to the Bach family and tutored some of them.  Johann Christoph Bach, JS Bach's older brother, was an early teacher of JS Bach and had been a pupil of Pachelbel.

Incidentally, the Magnificat Fugues of Pachelbel are really lovely and offer many of the same benefits as the Bach ones in terms of technique.

[ajspiano]

Incidentally, the Magnificat Fugues of Pachelbel are really lovely and offer many of the same benefits as the Bach ones in terms of technique.

Which should be noted here as being truly extraordinary, since hanon wasn't born for more than 100 years after his death. The poor bastard must have really struggled

[j_menz]

The poor bastard must have really struggled

Indeed, but he's sure had his revenge.

[ruvidoetostinato]

I don't usually warm up my fingers.

But when I do, Bach and Scarlatti!

[49410enrique]

A WTC Prelude and Fugue a day keeps all sorts of evils at bay.

so true. right now and lately, JS Bach keyboard works are my 'piano vegetables' that is just like maybe you wnat to try and get you dose of produce each day for good nutrition, etc. even if you like it, it's not always fun, but you do it.

so it is with JS Bach. I make it a point to make sure even though it is not assigned to me right now, i always start with it each day, it's the first thing i do, RH separate, LH separate, both hands together.

then im ready to go after whatever needs to be done.

i have found that the analogy of strength athletics is similar to to what Bach does for my practice. Just like with athletes, they can be good at their sport, have endurance, etc. it is strength that is usually key, that is make an athlete stronger,a nd all things being equal, almost everything else will work better/be better. same with Bach for me, everything just functions better after spend time with it.

pehaps that's why it isn't surprising to me that so many of the master piano composers we love had affinities for JS Bach and i think probably spent some daily time with his works too (I think even Chopin was reported to privately play out of WTC daily if i'm not mistaken...)
PS fyi interesting
https://www.omifacsimiles.com/brochures/bach_chopin_wtc.html