Bach WTC Prelude No. 17 in A-flat major

[davidjosepha]

Looking for feedback on this

It's not perfect, I know, and I had a few places where my hands weren't perfectly together or were a bit uneven, plus a quite major error in measures 29-30.

I wish the left hand were louder, but I think that's related to how I have my mic positioned or what frequencies it picks up best. I'll work on moving my mic around and seeing what I come up with.

So, what do you guys think?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

What's with the volume?  I can't hear it.

[davidjosepha]

I think it's relatively quiet...try turning up the volume on the PianoStreet player (the right triangle next to the play/stop buttons) and then turn it up your computer volume a ways.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

So in the beginning, the first two measures are fine.  You do a very little accent on the downbeat.  As if to signal the dancers when to start their next move or something.  But then the next six measures of the intro, you do it on the second beat. So on the third measure, you accent the first chord.  The fourth you accent the G.  The fifth you accent the Eb.  The sixth, you accent the little frilly thing, etc...  And not only is it inconsistent with what you did on the first two measures, it's a dance so you have to signal the downbeat.  So starting from the third, try accenting the first note of every measure.

as for consistency, you decide to play the last three notes of the main melody staccato; I do it as well.  But later on, you're not completely consistent with that decision.  Sometimes you decide to play the whole thing legato, then go back to playing the last three notes staccato like you did in the beginning, and sometimes it's a hybrid of both staccato and legato.  I think it's called legatimo or something.  No but yeah, try to keep the way you play the main melody consistent with the way you decide to play it at first.  Whether you play it all legato, staccato, or in between, doesn't really matter.  As long as it's consistent through out the piece.  But wait a second...  After the intro, there's no rest!  You have to play an extra note!  So you can decide whether or not to detach that note from the rest of the melody.  But what you decide has to be consistent with everything else.

As for technique, I know that you know that left hand and right hand weren't even all the time.  So I'll leave that up to you.  But some parts are slightly choppy.  More the 16th notes than the 8th notes.  SO...  This is what you do...  Once you get that downbeat stuff on lock, you can take a tiny break before you continue playing the rest of the measure.  It's so minuscule that nobody can notice it.  Of course you'll notice it because you're the one that's actually taking the break!  But yeah, since it's the down beat, you can take a very tiny break and then you'll have more time to position yourself for the rest of the passage.  It's small, but IT MATTERS.  That's what I did, and it helped out with technique issues quite a bit.  

No but yeah, those are just my thoughts.  You can heed me or (a homophone antonym for heed) me...  Something like that, I don't know dude...  Hope I explained myself well!

Oh and I really liked how you slowed down on measure 17!  Like legit, I thought that was good.  What fingering do you use there?  Because I had problems executing that technically until I switched fingerings.  And out of curiosity, what do you use for the right hand of measures 13, and 14?

[davidjosepha]

 
No but yeah, those are just my thoughts.  You can heed me or (a homophone antonym for heed) me...  Something like that, I don't know dude...  Hope I explained myself well!

Oh and I really liked how you slowed down on measure 17!  Like legit, I thought that was good.  What fingering do you use there?  Because I had problems executing that technically until I switched fingerings.  And out of curiosity, what do you use for the right hand of measures 13, and 14?

Thanks for help. A lot fo that was stuff my teacher had told me to do and I guess I just wasn't doing it well. I'm glad you noticed the thing about me not being consistent with the staccato...that's definitely something I needed to know about.

Thanks about the 17 comment, glad you liked it. My right hand fingering for 17 is 2431-4345 and then 1 for the d natural and trill with 3 and 2. Then, for the pickup note, I use my thumb since that was much easier, and I don't think (even though it's written that way) that the d natural needs to be held during the e flat. For measures 13-14, I use 1434 6 times.

I was wondering if you have any advice for this: If I sit down and play the piece once, it sounds good. I might have a few note problems or something, but I get almost all the notes and they're all even. However, after playing it through a couple times, I have a lot of trouble keeping the notes even and I end up with getting really frustrated, resulting in things like the recording I posted here. It's like my right hand just gets tired playing or something. I get really frustrated and am unable to make any progress on the piece cause I'm just so damn mad. Any advice (not on the anger )? Sometimes, I'll play it and it'll be tons of fun and sound good, and others, I'll just want to quit the piece, but I know that doesn't help me in the long run (or maybe it does?). I took a break from the piece for a couple weeks (a break that ended yesterday) and that seemed to help, but after an hour or so of practicing, it was back to where it was before, with uneven notes and hands not perfectly together.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I end up with getting really frustrated

Any advice (not on the anger  )?

Your hatred for Bach is maturing young one!

No but yeah, I had the same problem.  Unfortunately, since I'm not Rachmaninoff, or Scriabin, or Carl Vine, Or Valentina Lisitsa, I don't have an answer for that.  I had the same problem but I don't know what I did to fix it. 

Sorry dude.

[davidjosepha]

Your hatred for Bach is maturing young one!

No but yeah, I had the same problem.  Unfortunately, since I'm not Rachmaninoff, or Scriabin, or Carl Vine, Or Valentina Lisitsa, I don't have an answer for that.  I had the same problem but I don't know what I did to fix it. 

Sorry dude.

Haha it's fine. I'm going to spend a week or two only playing it at a very slow speed and try to work it up from the bottom again.

But no, I don't hate Bach, I just hate that I can't play him well!

[49410enrique]

Haha it's fine. I'm going to spend a week or two only playing it at a very slow speed and try to work it up from the bottom again.

But no, I don't hate Bach, I just hate that I can't play him well!

but you do show some very nice moments of beutiful playing here. keep working at it. make sure you do lots and lots of slow hands separate work without pedeal. really listen to those long lines.  super glad you posted this, keep it up!

[davidjosepha]

but you do show some very nice moments of beutiful playing here. keep working at it. make sure you do lots and lots of slow hands separate work without pedeal. really listen to those long lines.  super glad you posted this, keep it up!

Thanks for the encouragement! And no need to worry about the pedal! I use very light pedal even in romantic music; I don't use it at all when playing baroque, although I'm sure the day will come when I find a part too difficult to play without pedal. Maybe then I'll succumb

I'll try to post an update here when I've gotten this piece up to a higher level. I had just been playing the piece for quite some time and had sorta plateaued and wasn't sure what to do next. Thanks for the help, rach and enrique

Now when are you gonna post something here, enrique? A Final Fantasy piece, perhaps?

[49410enrique]

... Thanks for the help, rach and enrique

Now when are you gonna post something here, enrique? A Final Fantasy piece, perhaps?

there's quite a few in the pipeline , two should go up between today and next week and several others will be trickling out bit by bit soon there after (i.e. a decent number are on the back side of the learning curve so let's hope i can knock them out quickly as the new fall reperoire will be beastly indeed i.e. way difficult relative to my skill level , defiantely 'stretch pieces' to push me forward). yeha some FF is definately planned both public perofrmance level type stuff and a few frilly ones for nostalgia (that i think are still very pretty...)

thanks for the kick in the rear! i do need to be pushed a little sometimes to wrap these projects up!

[emill]

THANKS ... for a frustrated non-pianist like me, listening and going through the exchange of posts is quite informative. THANKS again.

[andhow04]

i am currently learning the entire WTC both books, and this prelude and fugue somehow presented a lot of surprising challenges.  it was honestly hard for me personally to memorize this prelude, for whatever reason. there are a few reasons, some of which i can hear in your performance, which weaken the effect if they aren't addressed.

i think its too fast, my recording is slower, but my general approach to tempo is spontaneous. but for you personally , it is too fast , you can't keep the hands together, and the rhythm is not great.

also, the notion of rhythm in your performance is the weakest thing, in my opinion.  i like the time you take about 24 bars in or whatever, and some of your ideas which i can tell, but your idea of rhythm is way too straight forward.  you are playing quarter notes, eighth notes, and sixteenth notes, but without relating them in any way to each other. also, bach has composed what seems to be two basic voices into a texture which really activates into four or more voices.

its very hard to talk about this sort of thing without showing on the piano. perhaps if you listen to my recording you can see what i mean.  but it is one thing to play all the different values, quarter eighth sixteenth, and another to relate them to each other.  i don't feel a consistent line going through the downbeat chords (that is a rhythm in itself), i don't feel a consistent line in the sixteenth note paassages which are all really divided into two voices (even though notated as one), and i dno't feel a consistent line in the repeating arpeggios of the eighth notes.

in other words the idea of rhythm is greater than the sum of its parts. i think one of the reasons that i found this prelude so challenging, is that there are multiple planes of rhythm happening simultaneously, and to have a grasp on all of them is as difficult as the polyphony of the fugue.
i am getting the feeling here, of notes and time-values, not connections and ideas.

i don't mean to be crtitical, but hoepfully to inspire you to think about the music of bach in a very different way. here is my recording of this prelude and fugue;
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=44122.0