update[Video]=Scriabin Mazurka E minor, Op. 25 No. 3 -performance recording 8/18

[49410enrique]

updated from the performance (i.e. w a real audinece). Thanks to everone for the support and suggestions I tried to incorporate what I could with my time before this.

Piano here is super nice Yamaha C2

about the piece/program notes (various sources)
https://www.scribd.com/doc/103147749/Scriabin-Op-25-No-3-Program-Notes

[emill]

hello enrique .....

listened and felt that the piece suits well the mood i am this morning... somewhat gloomy, depressed with but a ray of hope.... you seem to be coming along well and I am sure the teachers here, like DAvid will be coming coon to help. thanks

after being drenched (deluged would be more appropriate) with over 1,000 mm of rain (40 inches) in 3 days and being trapped in our apartment with nowhere to go and feeling how NOAH must have felt, only that his was 40 days .... one can't feel anything but be depressed.

[davidjosepha]

My first thoughts were that it was very good! I don't know the piece, but it was enjoyable. However, I did notice that I was shocked when you got up to turn off the camera. I didn't realize the piece was over. I looked up the sheet music and here's what I suggest for the ending, the last 2 measures, specifically.

You start by playing the A, then the A-sharp, and those are both fine. They feel like a melody is starting. But then you play the next chord and it feels lost, like you went from playing a melody to just hitting some keys (no offense, of course!). However, three things tell you that you really should be playing that B louder, and the other notes much quieter, almost imperceptible, even. First, the chromatic line appears and sounds as if it should go to B. Second, there is a B played an octave lower by your left hand to accent this. And, if that wasn't enough, finally, the score I'm looking at has the B written as part of a separate voice, attached to the A and A-sharp! Now, you're playing A, A-sharp, B....and then where is it supposed to go? Well, your ear tells you it should go down to an E...and then if you look at the key, you realize you're in E minor, so you start on the dominant and it resolves on the tonic...and, not-coincidentally, the final chord starts with two Es. So on that final chord, I think you need to make sure you take more time on those two Es, especially the first one. Give the listener a little time to hear that the melody ends there before you start on the rest of the chord. Even a little time where they don't realize that there are going to be other notes. Take a little time before the last chord too...let the listener ponder the dominant before resolving, just a hair longer...it felt a tiny bit rushed when you played it, I think. Then, in that final chord, don't play the other notes too loudly. The 3 Es are the most important notes in it, I think.

I don't mean to talk to you like you're an idiot, and I'm sure you've probably thought about all this stuff before and maybe were even trying to do it there, but perhaps in your effort to play very quietly at the end, it didn't quite come out. I think that final line there is extremely important, however, so I'd be sure to bring it out as much as you can without leaving the dynamic range of that area.

The other thing I noticed while looking at the score that I couldn't hear very well is the chromaticism in the left hand. I think that progression should help drive the piece, but it sounded almost like background. Starting in the first measure, E, D-sharp, D, C-sharp, C, B, B, A-sharp, A, then starting in measure 4, G, F-sharp...down to G. At measure 9, all this starts again. You can find all this stuff for yourself easily, but I think you need to make sure that the left hand comes out more when it has these progressions as they give this nice impression of the piece sort of falling. Make sure, when you do this, that these important notes stick out in chords when they don't get the natural accent. For instance, in measure 17, the D finishes the chromatic progression and should be more audible than the F-sharp.

In measure 19/20 (you can decide for yourself if you think those top notes in 19 in the left hand are part of that melody...I think they are) same thing as the beginning with voicing that one melody. You do great with it until it ends in a chord in measure 21, at which point the F-sharp is hard to hear.

Now in measures 21-22, you work that right-hand chromaticism very nicely, but again, it gets lost almost completely once the chords start in measure 23. Measure 25, the F-sharp in the left hand doesn't come out enough to end the melody started in 24. Same story in measure 29.

Measure 33, you actually did the chromatic progression in the left hand starting on the C very very well, I think. It helps drive the piece forward.

Measure 52, that same melody that appears in the last two measures of the piece, but this first time, it sticks on the 5. You did let that 5 stick out a bit in the chord in 53, but I think it still could have been a bit more. Really, that melody needs to be something the listener remembers. They should hear "A, A-sharp, B, B, B.....A, A-sharp, B, B, E". Play just those two parts alone and hear how you would play them if there weren't any other notes around, and then try applying that to how you play them in the context of the piece. That 3rd B in the first progression is really longing. It wants to resolve, but you won't let it. And then, you do let it, which is why it's so important in those last 2 measures to bring those notes out, because it's what the listener has been waiting for.

Basically, that whole thing can be summarized in the following:

Bring out the voices! Especially in chords!

Despite all that stuff I said, I thought the piece sounded just beautiful! But I also think it could sound a ton better if you did what I suggest above.

David

[costicina]

Thank you for posting this marvellous Scriabin, Enrique. I'm specially fond of this piece, and  IMO your performace caughts beautifully its spirit.
Of course, the refining process is virtually endless, the more so  when a musically complex and layered piece like this os concerned. Nevertheless ypu are already far advanced in the process. I enjoyed immensely your your interpretation: thank you!!!!!

[49410enrique]

hello enrique .....

listened and felt that the piece suits well the mood i am this morning... somewhat gloomy, depressed with but a ray of hope.... you seem to be coming along well and I am sure the teachers here, like DAvid will be coming coon to help. thanks

after being drenched (deluged would be more appropriate) with over 1,000 mm of rain (40 inches) in 3 days and being trapped in our apartment with nowhere to go and feeling how NOAH must have felt, only that his was 40 days .... one can't feel anything but be depressed.

thank you so very much for the comment and encouragement! you hit exactly how i feel about this piece, that there is a sense of longing, a heart not at ease, but it wants to be, it reaches for for happiness (i.e. those leaps by a fifth up than back down slightly each time the theme is restated). I am still trying to discover and working to find meaning in every little gesture, this work is so delicate, like Russian nesting dolls made of egg shells, i am trying to bring the smaller ones out with cracking or damaging anything!

i can empathize with the feeling from so much rain and gloom, i am the same way if i do not get some sunshine or cannot spend time outside (winter here and the time change to shorter days alway do a number on me!).

David (Rachfan) was very helpful with incredible insight and guidance via messaging before this was posted so I am working this week to work the fixes in with another piano lesson and some 'quality time' with the piece before I attempt again.

Thanks again for listening
_____________________________________________________

My first thoughts...

Bring out the voices! Especially in chords!

Despite all that stuff I said, I thought the piece sounded just beautiful! But I also think it could sound a ton better if you did what I suggest above.

David

i can't tell you how much i apprecate your critique, it is on par with something i would recieve from a masterclass or pre-jury type clinic. first thank you for the balanced approach (i.e you'll learn that it is important when doing these things to, where it is earned, sincerely comment and compliment the good/what you liked, before going into the constructive critique (without this a performer can take it the wrong way and just feel like you're tearing them a new one and get emotionally defensive, then it is very difficult to really listen and take what is meant to help to task and incorporate it). i will go in w score and where there are not any conflicts with instruction i have specifically recieved in lessons from my teacher i'll do my best to do more of what you suggest!
(you hit many of the things I have discoverdd i would like to do, but alas, the great equalizer that is digital capture, it keeps us honest and shows us even when we think we are doing something, many times we do not, or do not do it enough to convincingly bring it across to the listner). yes, technically from inital glances the work does not look imposing, but musically, it is among one of the more difficult i have attempted in quite sometime as it  requires some very careful planning and layering (something that my work pursuit of JS Bach and cantible and finger legato has helped but I MUST DO MORE!   ).

_____________________________________________

Thank you for posting this marvellous Scriabin, Enrique. I'm specially fond of this piece, and  IMO your performace caughts beautifully its spirit.
Of course, the refining process is virtually endless, the more so  when a musically complex and layered piece like this os concerned. Nevertheless ypu are already far advanced in the process. I enjoyed immensely your your interpretation: thank you!!!!!

that you have a special place already for this piece makes your compliment all the more meaningful! (really, so many pianists have never heard these works, this one in particular, it isn't exactly a rarity but seems to stay very well hidden unless one specifically seeks it out). yes it certainly feels like one of those that can continue to be revisted and explored, (as with so much Scriabin!).  you have given me the confidence i need to be diligent in the unending pursuit of excellence.

_________________________
thank you to all those that have already clicked in and watched and listened even if you did not comment. i hope you enjoyed it and that i was able to express something beyond a simple "dance".

[davidjosepha]

i can't tell you how much i apprecate your critique, it is on par with something i would recieve from a masterclass or pre-jury type clinic. first thank you for the balanced approach (i.e you'll learn that it is important when doing these things to, where it is earned, sincerely comment and compliment the good/what you liked, before going into the constructive critique (without this a performer can take it the wrong way and just feel like you're tearing them a new one and get emotionally defensive, then it is very difficult to really listen and take what is meant to help to task and incorporate it). i will go in w score and where there are not any conflicts with instruction i have specifically recieved in lessons from my teacher i'll do my best to do more of what you suggest!

Ah, gee, thanks

Yes, I wasn't sure exactly what your teacher had told you so of course I don't want you to go against his/her wishes. I was going to mention that, but I guess forgot. Your teacher knows a lot more than I do--I'm no expert, but I did have some fun looking through the score and finding the voices and themes I thought should come out.

Of course, the hard part is executing it, and the even harder part is executing all that I recommended for the left hand while keeping the main melody in the right hand prominent and still the center of attention...Perhaps maybe as an ear exercise, you try playing the right hand melody with just the descending chromatic line in the left hand? Once you hear it, you really can't stop hearing it, and that could help you bring it out more.

(you hit many of the things I have discoverdd i would like to do, but alas, the great equalizer that is digital capture, it keeps us honest and shows us even when we think we are doing something, many times we do not, or do not do it enough to convincingly bring it across to the listner). yes, technically from inital glances the work does not look imposing, but musically, it is among one of the more difficult i have attempted in quite sometime as it  requires some very careful planning and layering (something that my work pursuit of JS Bach and cantible and finger legato has helped but I MUST DO MORE!   ).

Yes! I know the feeling...digital capture...sometimes I'll play something and think it sounded beautiful only to listen to the recording and realize it was a wreck. And other times, I'll play something and think it was pitiful and realize that the recording came out excellent and the mistakes I had thought were so prominent as I played were barely audible, and probably only noticeable to one who knows the piece very well. But recording is a great way to hear the problems you wouldn't otherwise hear while playing.

With that in mind, I meant to say this in my first post, but, again, I forgot. Your camera seems to pick up higher tones much better than lower tones, so part of the imbalance I heard, I have no doubt, was related to the recording quality. I stand by my suggestions, of course, but I'm sure if I had heard you play it live, the lines I was wanting to hear would've been more prominent.

Again, I love how you played the piece! Looking at the score, I noticed, as you mentioned, that the work does not look difficult, but I also realized that while many might be able to play the notes, it takes a much more talented person to make music out of it. Out of curiosity, what edition are you using to learn this piece? I'd like to look into this and pieces like this more.

[49410enrique]

...Your camera seems to pick up higher tones much better than lower tones, so part of the imbalance I heard, I have no doubt, was related to the recording quality. I stand by my suggestions, of course, but I'm sure if I had heard you play it live, the lines I was wanting to hear would've been more prominent.

Again, I love how you played the piece! Looking at the score, I noticed, as you mentioned, that the work does not look difficult, but I also realized that while many might be able to play the notes, it takes a much more talented person to make music out of it. Out of curiosity, what edition are you using to learn this piece? I'd like to look into this and pieces like this more.

i do beleive that was partly to blame, not totally but yes my little digital still is not a very high qualtiy one, decent but mainly a little pocket point and shoot digi cam (barely better than a cell phone, heck some phones now have better than this thing) ,not a dedicated camcorder so the microphone is mediocre on its best day under the finest of circumstances. also that bosendorfer has  incredibly clear upper register, i think  i am fond of the touch on it but i will probably record next both of my pieces on a new yamaha grand, then  on the newly restored steinway d or b in the studio (i tend to like my etude on the the model d and this piece on the b a bit more).



the edition i used for this is the konemann budapest urtext mazurkas and valses volume. super nice scores, if you can get one of the out of print copies you can get this volume for as little as about 5 dollars (some stores will sell the exact same score for upwards of 30-60 dollars!). don't pay that much, they are just scarce as i think the publisher went under some years ago but new old stock and i think some re prints have begun to surface lately. highly reccommended, i like these scores quite a bit actaully. they did a complete scriabin piano works but i have only been able to secure a few volumes, peoms and impromptus, mazurkas and waltzes and i think another (sonatas maybe? i'd have to check).

[starstruck5]

I don't think the Bosendorfer and your microphone was a good match at all -having said that I think you and Scriabin are!

I think Scriabin says exactly the same thing with every phrase he writes -of all the composers I think his themes are the most unified of any -he seems to be staring at the infinite -and so each new note has to have a different dynamic -even if it is incredibly subtle -mostly you get this -I am amazed how you always seem to get inside a piece of music -this one is ponderous and gloomy and dreamy -sometimes a lake of unresolved anxiety -that's what I hear anyhow -You play so beautifully.

[49410enrique]

I don't think the Bosendorfer and your microphone was a good match at all -having said that I think you and Scriabin are!

I think Scriabin says exactly the same thing with every phrase he writes -of all the composers I think his themes are the most unified of any -he seems to be staring at the infinite -and so each new note has to have a different dynamic -even if it is incredibly subtle -mostly you get this -I am amazed how you always seem to get inside a piece of music -this one is ponderous and gloomy and dreamy -sometimes a lake of unresolved anxiety -that's what I hear anyhow -You play so beautifully.

your kind words are so encouraging during this final prep! i have plans to borrow a real camcorder/video recorder (not a great one but even still it should give better sound than the digicam) and hope to play this on at least two perhaps three different pianos tomorrow and friday (not that the actual piano makes THE entire difference but it helps a little, and i enjoy experimenting with the different sounds,still my focus on the main assignment points from my piano instructor/prof).

as to your observation of the music, it's pretty profound! i think i'll let it sink in a little and think about that as i listen to myself play over the coming days.

thank you again for listening and the comments and critique. It helps so much!

[chopin2015]

How long have you been working on this?

[49410enrique]

How long have you been working on this?

hi and thanks for commenting/asking    hmm about a month
...give or take....

if we get technical on 'worked on' (mid term exams and scheduling were crazy with the compressed nature of the summer term we began mid July-1st lesson- also had a stetch of about 9 days were i didn't practice anythng at all and we skpped the lesson that week-mid term examinations were rough, i have finals this week so things are crazy at best. we worked on this every other lesson for about half the lesson hence why i am not rehearsing from memory, i can get through it without the score and i think where i can, it does come through more convincingly BUT the complex hamony and 'cloudy' tonality in spots makes it difficult to have a 100% hit rate on it  & for me, post/late romantic and modern pieces take me a bit longer to solidly internalize so im just not risking it as i never perform from memory unless it is 100% memorized  to public stage standard or higher a minimum of 15 days away from the jury/exam/rectial/performance etc.,)

[starstruck5]

I don't even like Scriabin -but you made me listen to every note -and not just because I am meant to comment!  This piece makes me think of a clenched fist -inside is a fragile butterfly struggling to get out -so sad -

Anyway -if you play the piece like this on Saturday -it will be a thing of lovliness -too unbearable, because it is Scriabin -but that is just me -

The recording is much better by the way -

[49410enrique]

posted the updated recording from the performance  (in someone's home).  Was a little intimidating, small space so the people were practically sitting right next to me and behind me.

thanks to all for the help, support and feedback, it really helped me focus practice these past few days!

[davidjosepha]

posted the updated recording from the performance  (in someone's home).  Was a little intimidating, small space so the people were practically sitting right next to me and behind me.

thanks to all for the help, support and feedback, it really helped me focus practice these past few days!

Very nice! Much better than the first one, and the first one was very good. The added voicing really helped make certain parts muchhh better, especially the end, which I thought sounded incredible! I was absolutely transfixed while watching/listening, hanging on every note. Great work!

[costicina]

Absolutely gorgeous!!!! Your best  interpretation of this piece so far. Very inspired, touching, almost perfect  BRAVOOOO!!!!

[rachfan]

Hi enrique,

I really enjoyed this performance.  There is great clarity in your playing.  This is a big improvement, as you bring out the long line of the music so very well.  Bravo!

David

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Scriabin was probably in the audience sitting in the back with his hands crossed nodding is head thinking, 'This is preeeeeety preeeeeeety good!'.

No but yeah, this is preeeeety preeeeeeety good.







So that's what you look like!

[chopin2015]

If you ever want to take the emotional context up a notch, memorize it!

[49410enrique]

Very nice! Much better than the first one, and the first one was very good. The added voicing really helped make certain parts muchhh better, especially the end, which I thought sounded incredible! I was absolutely transfixed while watching/listening, hanging on every note. Great work!

Thanks man, super cool compliment, i really worked hard to have more sensitive and varied voicing, glad you liked it!

Absolutely gorgeous!!!! Your best  interpretation of this piece so far. Very inspired, touching, almost perfect  BRAVOOOO!!!!

you're super nice, i know how much you loved this piece already so that make your compliments all the more meaningful, i'm glad i coudl attempt to do it justice for you!

Hi enrique,

I really enjoyed this performance.  There is great clarity in your playing.  This is a big improvement, as you bring out the long line of the music so very well.  Bravo!

David

David, your comments and opinion carry so much weight, especially in light of how much you understand and love this Russian repertoire! Many thanks, it was your Scriabin performances that inspired me to finally take action and learn something of his past Op 20 (always loved this 'middle period too but had always been content to just listen, no more, i'm excited to keep exploring!).

Scriabin was probably in the audience sitting in the back with his hands crossed nodding is head thinking, 'This is preeeeeety preeeeeeety good!'.

No but yeah, this is preeeeety preeeeeeety good.







So that's what you look like!

ha ha as much as i know you like Scriabin, this made me feel really good! as for the looks, well, we try to set the bar really low around these parts lol

If you ever want to take the emotional context up a notch, memorize it!

yes you're right, this was the first time i performed with music mainly due to the fact that the piece was only studied for a few weeks and the emphasis was primarily on another work. these very late romantic/post romantic works also take me a while longer to memorize, this one i could get through it without a score but i seldom perform from memory unless it is solidly memorized 2-4 weeks away from the performance.  and normally i only do spring and fall study this was my first summer term and only 4 total piano lessons then the pieces had to be performed, it's was a very compact 'semester'. thanks for the advice, i have given the same to others before. it does help if one isn't focused on the score. i appreciate your listening and taking time to comment. I hope you enjoyed it

[chopin2015]

I really did! It was very nice. On the same note(or bar) my teacher sight reads pieces with lots of expression. It is a skill.