Will the world see another Romantic Era?

[cadenza14224]

Putting aside film scores, do you think there will ever be a resurgence of romantic-style Classical art music? Dazzling piano concertos and sonatas that are devoid of the incomprehensible tinkeriings of serialism and atonality, which will be accepted into the standard repertoire and appreciated by contemporary music critics?

Will we ever hear anything new with the calibers of Chopin and Rachmaninoff; someone who will present a wholly new voice to piano and classical music, without getting radically experimental and avant-garde?

[m1469]

Yeah, I think so.  Maybe we've already seen it and just don't recognize it for what it is.  Would there continue to be more?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Hmmmmm...

Have you heard of Carl Vine?

[j_menz]

But Chopin and Rachnmaninoff (perhaps to a lesser degree) were radically experimental and avante garde. So were all the famous romantics.

And serialism is such prescriptive old hat these days that I'm sure the next lot of cutting edge composers will be doing something new. It appears to have even started.

[thalbergmad]

Romantic music is far from dead and I do sense a return.

All this plinky modernist shite will die due to lack of interest. Composers who think they are pushing the boundaries are simply pushing people away from classical music due to the absurd nature of their music.

Thal

[drkilroy]

I would not like a return of Romantic Era in literal form. If I want to listen to Romantic music, I have a wealth of genuine Romantic composers to choose from, I do not need any contemporary composers imitating Romantic style literally.

However, I really like music that is inspired by some other era, but does not mimic it, like what Ravel did with Baroque music in Le Tombeau de Couperin, or, more recently and literally, what Lutosławski did with Paganini's 24th Capriccio in his Variations for piano.

Best regards, Dr

[counterpoint]

I'm wondering, what you mean with "romantic era"?

Perhaps you mean, will there ever be a composer like Chopin or even a composer like Bach (greatest romantic composer ever - listen to his cantatas!)

Who knows. Possibly - but the chances are quite small 

[49410enrique]

as thal said, perhaps a neo-romantic countermovement to the experimental music being peddled as art would be fine by me.

i could do without all the philosophical baggage the romantics toted about. (i.e. counter-enlightenment and anti-rationalization especially that of nature and the idealization almost reverence they felt one needed for it to truely understand it especially since many would want to 'abandon' previous notions as part of a reaction/counter-movement, and empiricism was not exacty a romantic ideal, etc.)

[outin]

i could do without all the philosophical baggage the romantics toted about. (i.e. counter-enlightenment and anti-rationalization especially that of nature and the idealization almost reverence they felt one needed for it to truely understand it especially since many would want to 'abandon' previous notions as part of a reaction/counter-movement, and empiricism was not exacty a romantic ideal, etc.)

I think that might be one reason why Chopin was such a great composer. It seems from what we actually know about him that he couldn't care less about idealism, it was all about music and making a living with it. I also have some doubts about his alleged nationalism. Sure, he probably felt bad for Poland's troubles, but I have a feeling that he would not have bothered to do anything about it even if he could. Of course he would use the elements from his own country in his music, especially since they seemed to be popular.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Why do we need another romantic era when we have dub step?!

[synthifou]

Romantic music is far from dead and I do sense a return.

This is vaguely reminiscent of a fanatic prophesying the second coming .  Although modernism will never be widely understood nor accepted, it should endure lest Faustian civilization collapses upon itself (which is not a terribly unlikely possibility). 

In some instances, however, your prediction has already been fulfilled.  Consider Penderecki, he fell from grace over 30 years ago  . 

[outin]

Why do we need another romantic era when we have dub step?!

Now I just have to ask... I admit that I'm REALLY stupid, but what exactly is dub step? 

[49410enrique]

... but what exactly is dub step? 

oh no, i wish you hadn't.....

[outin]

oh no, i wish you hadn't.....

I could of course Google but somehow I think it would not be healthy for me

[49410enrique]

I could of course Google but somehow I think it would not be healthy for me

no worries. some of it is more 'tolerable' than others.

i.e. lindsey is talented and can definately handle other styles, i think more than anything this was just smart marketing on her end (cater to your crowd/target audience). i admit there are worse things passed off as music, but at least she's cute and i can always mute her and just watch if it tire of it lol

[outin]

Thanks! I'll have to wait until I get home because last year some idiot ordered PCs without soundboards to my work...

[49410enrique]

Thanks! I'll have to wait until I get home because last year some idiot ordered PCs without soundboards to my work...

no worries. it isn't the authoritative rendition of dubstep but it is techincally such and least sorta nice to listen to without wanting to dig your ear drums out with a rusty fork.

[hmpiano]

A fool hath no delight in understanding, but only that his heart may reveal itself.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Now I just have to ask... I admit that I'm REALLY stupid, but what exactly is dub step?  

It's best that we don't tell you.  

It's scientifically proven that dub step actually reduces your IQ if you listen to it too much.  Your immune system becomes weaker, you increase your chances for getting prostate cancer, etc.  It's just not good for you.

[davidjosepha]

you increase your chances for getting prostate cancer, etc.

Especially in men

[outin]

no worries. it isn't the authoritative rendition of dubstep but it is techincally such and least sorta nice to listen to without wanting to dig your ear drums out with a rusty fork.

So is the violin the point? Listened to it for about 10 seconds... I DON'T like violin sound at all
I can handle orchestra and even chamber music if there is not too much...But this? Pure torture!

EDIT: And I think I already feel something wrong in my prostata 

[davidjosepha]

So is the violin the point? Listened to it for about 10 seconds... I DON'T like violin sound at all
I can handle orchestra and even chamber music if there is not too much...But this? Pure torture!

EDIT: And I think I already feel something wrong in my prostata 

that'll give you a better idea

[outin]

that'll give you a better idea

OK, now I got confused... what exactly is the definition of dub step? I mean there's quite a lot of stuff out there that sounds terrible, but it can't all be dub step, can it?  

[davidjosepha]

OK, now I got confused... what eactly is the definition of dub step? I mean there's quite a lot of stuff out there that sounds terrible, but it can't all be dub step, can it? 

The thing I linked you to is "pop" dubstep, mainstream stuff...the mainstream stuff is worse than the non-mainstream stuff, but it's all similar in style

[outin]

The thing I linked you to is "pop" dubstep, mainstream stuff...the mainstream stuff is worse than the non-mainstream stuff, but it's all similar in style

This is getting more difficult than learning my pieces...

BTW. It probably wasn't intentional from you, did you notice the comments below the video?

[unholeee]

dubstep is anything electronic that you can feel the bass, probably around 20hz spectrum (not scientific) featuring sub-bass, drum loops, oscillating frequencies in bass, etc ie. wobble

around the 4o second mark. thats dubstep. but you will require a subwoofer if you dont have one there's not much point.

[unholeee]

I assume pop is todays romantic? but that all sounds sappy and outright horrible. nah babe i really love this song piece.

(abhorrent)

[outin]

dubstep is anything electronic that you can feel the bass, probably around 20hz spectrum (not scientific) featuring sub-bass, drum loops, oscillating frequencies in bass, etc ie. wobble

What then makes it different from electronic dance music?

[unholeee]

well it is a subgenre of it. you will have similar qualities, kicks, snares, but it won't have sub-bass with most electronic music. a lot of electronic is 4/4 time.

ie . hard trance -

you should be able to tell if its dubstep or not - but less likely with drum and bass, breaks. but it doesnt really matter if not unless you are trying to find something similar you enjoy.

- dnb

- breaks

di.fm has some free streams with many genres you can check out.

[outin]

well it is a subgenre of it. you will have similar qualities, kicks, snares, but it won't have sub-bass with most electronic music.

Now I get it!
So it could actually be ok, if you like trance and similar stuff. I'm more into more jazzy dance music, Incognito is my favorite band.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

EDIT: And I think I already feel something wrong in my prostata 

Hurry!  Listen to Rachmaninoff or Scriabin!  They'll cure you!

[outin]

Hurry!  Listen to Rachmaninoff or Scriabin!  They'll cure you!

I already did, could not help myself yesterday and bought yet another recording of Scriabin's works...

[perprocrastinate]

I feel that all forms of art get worse with time, while you see massive technological advancements.

[chopin2015]

I think the art of writing down music is dying. No one knows how to write down music so intricately anymore. It is a whole new routine everyone follows these days. I think. Long story.

[j_menz]

I think the art of writing down music is dying. No one knows how to write down music so intricately anymore. It is a whole new routine everyone follows these days. I think. Long story.

Yes. So hard to get a good quill these days.

[davidjosepha]

I think the art of writing down music is dying. No one knows how to write down music so intricately anymore. It is a whole new routine everyone follows these days. I think. Long story.

If you think about it, writing down music isn't as necessary as it once was. The two reasons I see to write down music are so that someone else can play it, and so that the music doesn't die as soon as you (or your memory) dies. Non-classical musicians aren't writing music for anyone else to play, only themselves, and due to recordings, they can now just record themselves playing it, and if someone else wants to figure out how to play it, they have to do it by ear (which given how simple most contemporary music is compared to classical, isn't all that challenging).

[chopin2015]

I just don't see myself having even the resources to be able to write down something with enough accuracy and no communication error, If a teacher can teach, you would still have to go and figure out how to write down what you mean, on your own. Who does that these days? I feel like for 50 years this particular craft for piano has been dying. Pianists, non-composers era.  Now were all mixed up, some trying to be great like the composer, some trying to be great like the man on stage, a performer.

[j_menz]

Pianists, non-composers era.  Now were all mixed up, some trying to be great like the composer, some trying to be great like the man on stage, a performer.

Stephen Hough and Marc Andre Hamelin are two contemporary performers who also compose.  No doubt there are others also. I don't think the art is dead.

[chopin2015]

It is quite scarce though. Not as efficient with our time if we were to actually partake...We don't know as much as we should! Sorry....

[ajspiano]

I suspect that there are a great number of composers who write solo piano music, and actually write it down - or you know, digitally score it - ~!!    ME, I'M ONE OF THOSE   !!~  (at least sometimes I am - depends how much time i've got)  But since its practically impossible to make money with it there's limited exposure.

If a well known performer chose to play a current composers works among the greats we'd also probably see it become more popular.

[j_menz]

~!!    ME, I'M ONE OF THOSE   !!~    But since its practically impossible to make money with it there's limited exposure.

It's also difficult to actually find any being published, and the little that is is not exactly cost competitive.  Faced with a three page piece by someone on the offchance you might like it vs (for the same price) the complete works of Chopin, not many people will go past the Chopin (in their shoppin'  -  Sorry!  ).

[ajspiano]

It's also difficult to actually find any being published

Getting published would probably mean cornering yourself artistically.

Grade 1-4/5 (maybe a bit higher if you can strike a deal to have your work included in ABRSM/AMEB syllabus - fat chance of that.)

Stylistically..  contempory/jazz.

Sets of pieces, progressive difficulties, good for teachers..

....

Really you probably just have to write you own teaching method and put your pieces in it, and publish it yourself. And if you happen to do an REALLLLLLY good job of it you might sell 1 or 2 to anyone outside you're own students.

[chopin2015]

Are you comparing your writing/composing skills to that of Chopin and your music theory knowledge and proficiency to that of Ravel?!!
 
 

[j_menz]

Are you comparing your writing/composing skills to that of Chopin and your music theory knowledge and proficiency to that of Ravel?!!
 
 

Are you actually paying attention? Are you drinking?

[ajspiano]

Are you comparing your writing/composing skills to that of Chopin and your music theory knowledge and proficiency to that of Ravel?!!
 
 

Yes, that's how arrogant I am. I confidently declare that I'm better than someone whom I've never met and who's music I have not studied in full..    never mind the fact that this is art not athletics.

Seriously though, that is part of the problem..   great composers are elevated to such a status that collectively we are disbelieving of the possibility that any current composer (not me, in case anyone still thinks I'm suggesting that) could be as good as they were.

I rather think we have some great composers, but they are working where composition is needed - and its not solo piano music. More likely film. Because no one goes to the opera, - they go to the movies.. and unfortunately pay no attention to the music..   and the poor composers have to fit the music to the film instead of just taking their desired musical direction..

.....

The cost thing is pretty relevant too..  if I had a substantial body of work and wanted exposure I'd probably have to pay someone to play it and give the scores away free for several years.

[davidjosepha]

Are you comparing your writing/composing skills to that of Chopin and your music theory knowledge and proficiency to that of Ravel?!!
 
 

Yeh, who would dare think they could do something as horrendous as compose music...an absolute insult to Chopin, who clearly wanted to be the only composer ever.

Really, I think more people need to work to compose complex music not necessarily in the same style as people like Chopin, but containing the same complexity. Most piano music I see being "composed" now is arpeggios in the left hand and a simple melody in the right (how unlike Chopin! ). It's sad really. The only composer anyone (not interested in classical music) knows from our time is John Williams, and soundtrack composition is very different from composing music to be played by itself. There aren't too many names even people interested in classical music know from the past 30 years. Carl Vine, Kapustin, hell, that's all I can name. I know Krystian Zimerman is one pianist who's tried to support modern composers. Witold Lutosławski dedicated his concerto to Zimerman. But big-name pianists seem to only play standard repertoire, from what I can tell. It's mostly people who don't have a name for themselves yet who are playing new or different composers, probably in the hopes they can fill an opening no big-name will fill and thus make a name for themselves.

[ajspiano]

The only composer anyone (not interested in classical music) knows from our time is John Williams,

Danny elfman probably gets the odd look in..  thanks to the simpsons..

...

Its not my kind of music, but I find it pretty disgusting that with so many modern day pop artists there is a writer sitting behind the scenes that get zero recognition. The culture worships the wrong person...  and somehow we worship a mediocre standard too.. *vomit.

[davidjosepha]

Seriously though, that is part of the problem..   great composers are elevated to such a status that collectively we are disbelieving of the possibility that any current composer (not me, in case anyone still thinks I'm suggesting that) could be as good as they were.

I was actually originally going to respond with this, but I sorta changed what I was saying and said something else. Fascinating story, I know, should I tell it again?

But exactly, I mean, look at Rachmaninoff's earlier works...for instance, he wrote 3 nocturnes at around the age of 14, I think...they are amazing, I think, especially 1 and 2, but they are very simple (not minimalist however), and I could easily see someone on this forum writing them. But Rachmaninoff didn't stay at that level forever, obviously. He refined his technique and eventually wrote some of the greatest pieces in piano repertoire! There's no reason someone couldn't do the same today. And maybe some people have started to do the same, but given up before they got to his ability because everyone says "No, you'll never be as good as these supernatural beings that lived 100+ years ago."

The cost thing is pretty relevant too..  if I had a substantial body of work and wanted exposure I'd probably have to pay someone to play it and give the scores away free for several years.

Perhaps, if you ever created enough music, you could debut it yourself, alongside other pieces people will go to see? I'm not sure what your position is so I'm not sure how easily you'd be able to have a concert, but it's something to keep in mind.



PS Chopin's not that great. You could be better than him with a little effort

[chopin2015]

Whoa people, calm down. I am just saying its not just about quality vs quantity thing and mentioned above favorite composers/GENIUS accomplished both. I can't argue with you guys because you just accuse me. I don't drink. Are you offering?
 The guy who said Chopin not that great....WOW.
 Everyone else-Plenty of modern composers these days. But refer to topic title, and we are talking romantic music.

[davidjosepha]

The guy who said Chopin not that great....WOW.

Not allowed to have preferences? I recognize him as a very talented composer, but I personally don't like most of his output all that much.