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Topic: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills  (Read 4663 times)

Offline arceface1

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Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
on: August 22, 2012, 11:01:47 AM
How does one interpret the trills in the above referenced piece?  The first trill marker has a flat sign above it,  what does that mean?  Is the trill supposed to start on the note or the one above it?  More specifically what I am trying to figure out is what notes to play in the trill.  The notated fingering is "4535" so that throws me off as well.  Any help would be truly appreciated.  Thanks in advance for the help.

Here's a picture of one of the passages in question.
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Offline scherzo123

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 05:39:07 PM
Hi! I'm working on this piece too. I just play F, G, and F.
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Bach Prelude and Fugue BWV848
Beethoven Piano Sonata Op.13
Chopin Etude Op.10 No.4
Chopin Scherzo Op.31
Mussorgsky "The Great Gate of Kiev" from Pictures at an Exhibition

Offline arceface1

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 06:40:14 PM
That would make sense if the marker above the trill sign was a natural and not a flat.  According to the fingering it would be "FGFG"
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Offline scherzo123

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 07:33:19 PM
I hear other people play F G F> I could be wrong, but...
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Bach Prelude and Fugue BWV848
Beethoven Piano Sonata Op.13
Chopin Etude Op.10 No.4
Chopin Scherzo Op.31
Mussorgsky "The Great Gate of Kiev" from Pictures at an Exhibition

Offline arceface1

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 07:57:42 PM
F>?? U mean FGF#?
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Offline scherzo123

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 07:58:33 PM
I meant "period", as in end of sentence.
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Bach Prelude and Fugue BWV848
Beethoven Piano Sonata Op.13
Chopin Etude Op.10 No.4
Chopin Scherzo Op.31
Mussorgsky "The Great Gate of Kiev" from Pictures at an Exhibition

Offline arceface1

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 08:16:01 PM
Thanks for the help!!!  I will give it a shot when I get home tonight.  Can anyone confirm this or expound on it further??
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Offline j_menz

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 12:06:35 AM
The mark above is a natural sign, not a flat. Ther G is already flat per the key signature so this cancells it. It's just a bad copy.

FGF

The fingering given is for FGFG, but I wouldn't play that extra G myself.
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"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline arceface1

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 01:00:03 AM
OMG I love you!!! That's exactly what I was thinking!  Thank you so much for the clarification!!!
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Offline chopin2015

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 02:57:38 AM
Why don't you listen to the piece and interpret?
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"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline arceface1

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 03:00:45 AM
I tried several times but couldn't figure it out in my desperation I turned to you guys.  My ears not that good yet.

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Offline chopin2015

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 03:07:45 AM
mmm I will listen to it with the score and next to my piano tomorrow. Mum is asleep right now. Will let you know what I think. I only play the first scherzo.
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"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline naaga

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 08:19:12 AM
I played this scherzo and I always used FGF, fingering 353, and then 2 on the E.
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Offline arceface1

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 10:02:29 AM
Tx again everyone!
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Offline nyiregyhazi

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Re: Help with Chopin scherzo 2 trills
Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 01:53:33 AM
Quote from: j_menz on August 23, 2012, 12:06:35 AM

The fingering given is for FGFG, but I wouldn't play that extra G myself.

Neither a mordent nor a full trill should ever finish on a long upper note. There's a tiny slur between the last two fingerings. I believe they are suggesting a change of finger, after having sounded the 2nd F- not an extra note to play.
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