ROLAND F-120

[outin]

I know there are a lot of posts already about digitals, but I just don't have the time now to go through them. I have a simple question:

If I only want a digital to practice fingerings and notes without disturbing my neighbours while having an acoustic to actually play, would this be a good choice? Is the touch as realistic as the ads say? The sound would not matter that much.

I ask because I could get one cheap now...

[oxy60]

Yes and buy it! Check the manual to be sure you get all the "little" pieces that belong with it.

[outin]

Yes and buy it! Check the manual to be sure you get all the "little" pieces that belong with it.

It's not a used one, so I assume I would (whatever little pieces you might mean

[hfmadopter]

Yes and buy it! Check the manual to be sure you get all the "little" pieces that belong with it.

I don't know a whole lot about this piano. What I do know is about myself and practicing fingering, which may or may not apply to you.. Initially when I start a new piece and the fingering for the new piece, I don't care much about action or sound. What I need to do is over play the exercise process and get the notes into my fingers. In this regard, it doesn't matter much what the keys action is about, I'm hitting the key bed anyway. When I start some arranging, I'm looking for harmony, chordal progression and arpeggio timing related to melody line. When it comes together now the touch and action and also tone matters.

David

[outin]

I think I would be like that if it wasn't for my teacher... But she won't let me get away with any inefficients movements, keybedding or whatever bad habits I have. So it's best to practice the right way from the start...

Anyway, I will go check it out Saturday. I can compare with a few other models too, so either I will like it or not. It's not a big investment anyway.

[hfmadopter]

I think I would be like that if it wasn't for my teacher... But she won't let me get away with any inefficients movements, keybedding or whatever bad habits I have. So it's best to practice the right way from the start...

Anyway, I will go check it out Saturday. I can compare with a few other models too, so either I will like it or not. It's not a big investment anyway.

Well as I said, it may or may not apply to you. My teacher used to hack me through the getting both hands together part, then we worked on expression. She was something else like that in a lesson, right from the first page hands together. And that was from John Thompson's book one to the Pathetique. But she didn't care how painstaking slow the measures went as long as it was in rhythm and I played all the notes. A month into it though and that was another matter.

Have fun piano hunting ! Let us know your finding.
David

[outin]

But she didn't care how painstaking slow the measures went as long as it was in rhythm and I played all the notes. A month into it though and that was another matter.

My teacher is much more concerned about me having the correct posture and hand/arm movements than playing correctly. Maybe that's because she already knows I'm obsessed with that enough on my own...

But this is completely different from what I remember from my lessons as a child.

[oxy60]

Well as I said, it may or may not apply to you. My teacher used to hack me through the getting both hands together part, then we worked on expression. She was something else like that in a lesson, right from the first page hands together. And that was from John Thompson's book one to the Pathetique. But she didn't care how painstaking slow the measures went as long as it was in rhythm and I played all the notes. A month into it though and that was another matter.

Have fun piano hunting ! Let us know your finding.
David

Hello to a fellow John Thompson alumnus. That's where I started. Now a friend who is almost retired wants me to to teach him to play the piano. My first thought was to use John Thompson but while the techniques are solid the format is for children. Hardly appropriate for a retired musician teaching an almost retired J.D.!

Back to the thread. I love Roland equipment. They pack a lot of value into everything.

[outin]

My only worry is that when I go to try it out tomorrow I will end up playing the more expensive models... Which makes little sense since I am supposed to be saving money for the grand...better leave the credit card home

[hfmadopter]

Hello to a fellow John Thompson alumnus. That's where I started. Now a friend who is almost retired wants me to to teach him to play the piano. My first thought was to use John Thompson but while the techniques are solid the format is for children. Hardly appropriate for a retired musician teaching an almost retired J.D.!

Back to the thread. I love Roland equipment. They pack a lot of value into everything.

Hello in deed ! And yes Roland is good.

For your adults you might think about the Thompson Adult series, here is book one at Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/John-Thompsons-Adult-Piano-Course/dp/1423405803

But I personally have thought of modeling my own class for senior adults. Haven't had to yet, only have had inquiries !

[hfmadopter]

My only worry is that when I go to try it out tomorrow I will end up playing the more expensive models... Which makes little sense since I am supposed to be saving money for the grand...better leave the credit card home

I just hope you have fun if nothing else. And do bring back your thoughts please !
David

[lhorwinkle]

outin: If you're asking whether the F120 feels like an acoustic, then I presume you've not yet tried out the piano. In that case, DO NOT buy. Don't buy any piano until you've tried it.

[outin]

outin: If you're asking whether the F120 feels like an acoustic, then I presume you've not yet tried out the piano. In that case, DO NOT buy. Don't buy any piano until you've tried it.

I wouldn't.

But actually I don't think it must feel like an acoustic. I think it would be better if it was lighter in touch. I am incredibly slow in memorizing and learning chords, leaps and some patterns. So I need to practice them a lot.  But I must limit my practice because of my physical limitations. My head can handle more than my body. So having something that is very easy to play would be good. I could then use the acoustic to actually learn to PLAY the piece.

[hfmadopter]

I wouldn't.

But actually I don't think it must feel like an acoustic. I think it would be better if it was lighter in touch. I am incredibly slow in memorizing and learning chords, leaps and some patterns. So I need to practice them a lot.  But I must limit my practice because of my physical limitations. My head can handle more than my body. So having something that is very easy to play would be good. I could then use the acoustic to actually learn to PLAY the piece.

You will know the right one when you sit at it and play and I'm 100% sure you are aware of that anyway.. It may not require brand loyalty or involve much if anything said in the forums. If you stay away from the rock bottom priced ones you should get something decent ( $200 US keyboards do nothing for me, stay away).

 Oxy60 is correct, generally speaking, Roland is a decent brand as brands go, they are known for their top rated pianos but I suspect the low end is much the same as anyone elses, perhaps mid range. Also as far as I know they don't make anything in the junk catagory or super low end. For a while they had some keys breaking but they were easy to replace and model related ( stage piano I don't recall the exact models involved).

Enjoy !
David

[outin]

Enjoy !
David

Thanks, I'll be sure to let you know how I feel (I WILL not buy anything today!).
Other brand they have is Korg.

[outin]

It didn't go very well  

I tried the F-120 first and the keys felt funny. Then I tried the similarly priced Korg model they had and the keys felt like toys.

So I tried two other models HP 503 and HP 505. About twice as expensive. Liked the 505.

I did not even want to try the ridiculously expensive one they had (can't remember the model).

One thing that I noticed immediately was that all the digitals where really light compared to my acoustic, it was a bit difficult to adjust to the lightness of the keys, even with the heaviest setting. I could imagine how easy it would be to play on them after getting used to it.

So now I am back to looking at the higher prices models (about 2000 euros). I guess I should go and test some Yamahas and Kawais too... But I have to say I REALLY liked the 505...

Looked at the prices of the Kawai's here and the model that I could get with the same price is Kawai CA63. Of course the guy selling the Rolands dissed the Kawais in general 

BTW. How come even the cheapest digitals had keys that have a very nice coating while my U1 has these awful plastic slippery keys? I suffer from slipping a lot which also causes me tension 

[hfmadopter]

Well ya, the 505 is a nice piano that's why you lke it ! I think you will like the Kawai too though and it may just have the action you are looking for ( never know that's why you try them out)

As to the touch surface of the U1, you can have the key tops changed, FWIW. I love my Henry's key tops, not sure what they are but they were replaced before I bought it 30 years ago.
David

[outin]

As to the touch surface of the U1, you can have the key tops changed, FWIW. I love my Henry's key tops, not sure what they are but they were replaced before I bought it 30 years ago.

Don't think it's worth it on an upright...and I guess I can't use sand paper either since I'm going to sell this one 

[outin]

I was reading the brochure of the Roland 505 I got. It says "Authentic FORTEPIANO and harpsichord sounds onboard". Although I would question the authenticity of a digital fortepiano sound, it would be kind of interesting, after all I want one

The Kawai CA 63 on the other hand has 192 voices polyphony while the Roland has 128. Not sure it matters, since I will also have an acoustic.

[hfmadopter]

I was reading the brochure of the Roland 505 I got. It says "Authentic FORTEPIANO and harpsichord sounds onboard". Although I would question the authenticity of a digital fortepiano sound, it would be kind of interesting, after all I want one

The Kawai CA 63 on the other hand has 192 voices polyphony while the Roland has 128. Not sure it matters, since I will also have an acoustic.

Of course being digital, authentic sound has to be taken a bit tongue in cheek I suppose. but some of the grand piano sounds are getting rather convincing these days, till you're in a room with a real grand anyway.

Not sure you will notice the difference in polyphony in real world use at that level. It's kind of like megapixels in cameras. If you only print to 5x7 max and if you own a 12 MP camera how much gain will there really be in a 14. Discernible difference, the term there of, enters my mind for some reason ! I could also be all wet and it really matters just as well.

I'd go with the action that suits you and a good set of headphones, since you are interested in silent playing.. But then I'm all set with Kawai's MP 6 too and you want something else. I sent a guy in the forums a list of pianos, he went looking at stage pianos and he liked the MP6 least ! We're all different, have to try them out.

[outin]

It all comes to how much I am willing to pay... I think I could wait a bit more and try out something else meanwhile. Thanks for all the support!

BTW. Something has happened to my piano during the last week. Could be the whether change or the fact that I have been pedalling a lot, but it doesn't feel quite as bad as it was. So maybe it really just needs more playing to get the stifness out. I guess it will be good when the time comes to sell it...

[hfmadopter]

It all comes to how much I am willing to pay... I think I could wait a bit more and try out something else meanwhile. Thanks for all the support!

BTW. Something has happened to my piano during the last week. Could be the whether change or the fact that I have been pedalling a lot, but it doesn't feel quite as bad as it was. So maybe it really just needs more playing to get the stifness out. I guess it will be good when the time comes to sell it...

If the action is on the stiff side it just may be that you are starting to get the muscles in shape for playing it.  If the weather is changing there, expect changes in the piano as well though.  I'll be glad when mine is half dried out from this summer and I tune it for the fall. The next thing will be humidifying it as the heat starts cycling on about in Oct or Nov.. I am expecting a sizable drop in tune here pretty soon. It went about 10 cents sharp just from summer weather. That's going to drop out then some I'm sure and it's not like it will do it evenly across the board ( remember my piano is from the 1800s, it takes TLC to own this thing !).
David

[oxy60]

If the action is on the stiff side it just may be that you are starting to get the muscles in shape for playing it.  If the weather is changing there, expect changes in the piano as well though.  I'll be glad when mine is half dried out from this summer and I tune it for the fall. The next thing will be humidifying it as the heat starts cycling on about in Oct or Nov.. I am expecting a sizable drop in tune here pretty soon. It went about 10 cents sharp just from summer weather. That's going to drop out then some I'm sure and it's not like it will do it evenly across the board ( remember my piano is from the 1800s, it takes TLC to own this thing !).
David

Yes it does! Seemingly endless issues arise until you settle into a permanent house for it and solve all the problems. My grand never was perfect until I got whole house heating and air conditioning with humidity control. Then the tuning was reduced to once a year. Another grand in a jazz club was tuned once a week!

I'll stay with my digital. Who wants their neighbors to hear the same passage over and over? 

[hfmadopter]

Yes it does! Seemingly endless issues arise until you settle into a permanent house for it and solve all the problems. My grand never was perfect until I got whole house heating and air conditioning with humidity control. Then the tuning was reduced to once a year. Another grand in a jazz club was tuned once a week!

I'll stay with my digital. Who wants their neighbors to hear the same passage over and over? 

My piano has been in the same living room for 30 years. We had ac on in the house almost all summer. The operative word here is almost, my wife likes to open windows on the cooler days which basically just lets the humidity in. We were running dew points in the upper 60s and 70 degrees with 90% to 95% humidity at night a lot this summer. Even with ac on the house is more humid than in the winter. In winter the dew points will drop, with the heat on humidity levels in the house drop way way down.  So my mode of operation is not climate control but ac in the summer if the wife doesn't open windows and a humidifyer in the winter.

The piano was built in the 1800s there was no such thing as climate control. It's getting a treat in it's old age !! Many pianos around the world should be treated so nicely as mine, I'm thinking. Now if the wife would just understand that in the summer, keeping the house shut and ac going is just better for everything, especially when it's a hot humid summer like this one has been. It takes hours for the ac to catch up after closing everything back up. But yes my last tuning has held basically all summer except for a tweak here or there.

Enjoy your digital, I'm glad you like it ! What one do you own ?

It may take a day or two for me to be responding this week. I'm on vacation in the mountains of Maine. The cabins have internet connection, just we are busy. Between fly tying and fishing etc I'm just doing catch up on the computer.
David

[outin]

It may take a day or two for me to be responding this week. I'm on vacation in the mountains of Maine. The cabins have internet connection, just we are busy. Between fly tying and fishing etc I'm just doing catch up on the computer.

I'm so envious. I love fishing!

Have a great time

[hfmadopter]

I'm so envious. I love fishing!

Have a great time

My wife caught a salmon out on the lake yesterday and I caught one last evening. As soon as I'm off the computer this morning I'm going to tie some muddler minnows for the river ( the head water to the Kennebec River is about 100 yards from our cabin), there are almost always brook trout and salmon in the river.

We were pretty bushed by last night as it's a 6-1/2 hour drive towing our boat to get up here from our house and we left at 3 AM yesterday morning so as to beat out the morning traffic through Boston and still get a  full day number one in up here. So we were up at 2am, we cruised the lake in the heat of the day yesterday, it was fairly cool out there but quite hot on shore.

If you like fishing, mountains, lakes and streams then you would love it here. If you like fishing in the ocean, like beaches and bays, you would love it where we live back home ( I'm not a huge salt water fan myself but the fishing can be quite something there) !!

I came on here to look up some music, listen to a little Bach, answer a post or two and catch up my email while my wife sleeps a bit longer. No piano here, practice has to wait till I get back home next Sunday !
David

[outin]

If you like fishing, mountains, lakes and streams then you would love it here. If you like fishing in the ocean, like beaches and bays, you would love it where we live back home ( I'm not a huge salt water fan myself but the fishing can be quite something there) !!

I like them all, lake fishing, stream fishing and sea fishing. The biggest fish are in the sea, but for me it's not about the catch really, more like enjoying being out there in the nature. Never tried fly fishing though, just ordinary rod and reel. I cannot imagine how I could avoid getting the lines mingled, it looks very complicated 

[oxy60]

My piano has been in the same living room for 30 years. We had ac on in the house almost all summer. The operative word here is almost, my wife likes to open windows on the cooler days which basically just lets the humidity in. We were running dew points in the upper 60s and 70 degrees with 90% to 95% humidity at night a lot this summer. Even with ac on the house is more humid than in the winter. In winter the dew points will drop, with the heat on humidity levels in the house drop way way down.  So my mode of operation is not climate control but ac in the summer if the wife doesn't open windows and a humidifyer in the winter.

The piano was built in the 1800s there was no such thing as climate control. It's getting a treat in it's old age !! Many pianos around the world should be treated so nicely as mine, I'm thinking. Now if the wife would just understand that in the summer, keeping the house shut and ac going is just better for everything, especially when it's a hot humid summer like this one has been. It takes hours for the ac to catch up after closing everything back up. But yes my last tuning has held basically all summer except for a tweak here or there.

Enjoy your digital, I'm glad you like it ! What one do you own ?

It may take a day or two for me to be responding this week. I'm on vacation in the mountains of Maine. The cabins have internet connection, just we are busy. Between fly tying and fishing etc I'm just doing catch up on the computer.
David

That sounds great. I've never really "been" to Maine, just for fuel stops in the old days. My digital is a Yamaha P-85. It runs through some fancy amps, speakers and a mixer. I record wire to wire (no mics) and get a great sound. It has that rich bass and twinkling top. Actually too rich for jazz combos. However it also has some thinner pianos which work well.

It sounds like you are living an idyllic life there in a cabin on the shore of a lake.