Chopin op. 9 no. 2 and Debussy Claire de lune

[furtwaengler]

I've been ask to play these famous pieces for a friend's wedding. The Nocturne is in the intro, and there's a possibility a violist will actually be playing the theme. The bride wants to walk out to the Debussy, so it will be heavily cut...which putting two and two together does not make as much necessity for this thread. Ah well, what are you going to do?

Here is a recording from my practice Tuesday night. The piano is a small Yamaha grand in a classroom, and one of those irritating instruments which has a function lifting the bottom half of the dampers instead of a proper sostenuto pedal. I will never understand the use for such a feature...

As for the two famous pieces, they don't come so easily to me, but I don't dislike playing them. You'll have to give me some pointers based on what you hear.

[emill]

hello Dave !!

These are "crowd pleasers" and not surprising to be requested for a wedding.  Personally I enjoyed the way you played the pieces and the recording is good too (definitely not a minirecorder in your pocket! ).  THANKS!!!!

Just wondering whether there should be any difference between #1 and #3 as it seems to me the same except perhaps that #1 sounded better or was recorded slightly better?    

[furtwaengler]

Just wondering whether there should be any difference between #1 and #3 as it seems to me the same except perhaps that #1 sounded better or was recorded slightly better?    

There was no change in the recording situation, I simply cannot ever decide on takes if I've got more the one. I think one is about 20 seconds faster than the other because of pushing the tempo in the middle section, and the slower of the two breaths with a bit more freedom. In addition one made more colored use of the una corda than the other, and I there are some slight voicing discrepancies between them - but both of these unfinished in that regard.

Thanks for listening! (Tis the Zoom H2.)

[emill]

Thanks!   I'll take the No.1 .... from my audience point of view.

The Zoom aside from it's reasonable price has also given me a good amount of leeway.  I use the Zoom4HN which can d0 4 channels with independent recording level control for each. It takes a bit of experimentation though.

[furtwaengler]

The Zoom aside from it's reasonable price has also given me a good amount of leeway.  I use the Zoom4HN which can d0 4 channels with independent recording level control for each. It takes a bit of experimentation though.

My goodness, I wouldn't even know what to do with that! I'm not so technically savvy. But I was also thinking today about a specific piece I'm working on...if I were to record it, I wish I could record it with a good tape recorder. I wonder if I'm missing something here.

[size=8]And yeah, I probably would choose no. 1 too, except for two or three notes a just don't like.[/size]

[m1469]

Hi, Dave,

I have to say, this is beautiful playing and artistry.  I am listening only to the first recording of Claire de Lune right now and think I'll need to listen to only this for the moment (by choice).  I will admit that I've never liked it -not even a little- before now.  Thank you so much for showing me something I didn't see or realize before, and for being willing to share it.

[starstruck5]

Seems I am on the same page as m1469 regarding the Debussy -not my favourite composer!  You found the meaning of this piece it seems to me -something serene -an interlude in nature - something quite profound -

Never thought of Claire De Lune as a Wedding March!  It is different!

Your Chopin playing was just impeccable -beautiful -

[furtwaengler]

My goodness, I wouldn't even know what to do with that! I'm not so technically savvy. But I was also thinking today about a specific piece I'm working on...if I were to record it, I wish I could record it with a good tape recorder. I wonder if I'm missing something here.

[size=8]And yeah, I probably would choose no. 1 too, except for two or three notes a just don't like.[/size]

Lol! I didn't even look at what I posted...I was trying to do match Enzo's SMALL PRINT with SMALL PRINT and I failed. Haha...

[furtwaengler]

Seems I am on the same page as m1469 regarding the Debussy -not my favourite composer!  You found the meaning of this piece it seems to me -something serene -an interlude in nature - something quite profound -

Never thought of Claire De Lune as a Wedding March!  It is different!

Your Chopin playing was just impeccable -beautiful -

Thanks for listening, Starstruck5. When it comes to weddings I give no opinions unless I'm specifically asked. Otherwise I must please the wedding party. As it is, I do not do many weddings. This happens to be a friend and actually a very talented soprano. It will be a violist playing the Chopin, so I am happy that I could share it here for this audience!

Hi, Dave,

I have to say, this is beautiful playing and artistry.  I am listening only to the first recording of Claire de Lune right now and think I'll need to listen to only this for the moment (by choice).  I will admit that I've never liked it -not even a little- before now.  Thank you so much for showing me something I didn't see or realize before, and for being willing to share it.

This is very special, thanks! I never gravitated towards Claire de Lune either, though I've known it's potential for beauty. Debussy is an interesting composer...violin sonata, cello sonata, Pelleas et Melisande, Jeux, many songs (including a much different Claire de Lune with the voice in the middle all the pianist's harmonies - a complex relationship), and on the piano I especially like all the Etudes...each and every one.

[onwan]

I'll talk only about The nocturne because I'm learning this piece right now, so I'll be maybe a lot of critical. But if you want to hear true of interpretation (my personal and my teacher) this is it!
1) forgive my english.
2) the second note G it has to be played little bit slower and softly.
3) your left hand is so loud. I mean the basses are good but U-PA-PA (the pa-pa play quietly)
4) next think is, finish every phrase (everywhere ended ligature)
5) in 4th measure (Bb,D,C,Bb,Ab,G,Ab,C,D,E) slow down...a lot! there ends the firs part of piece. The first part play slower and quietly (1-4 measure) then you can be little bit faster and louder, but be calm!
ou, it is only a part of work...if you want, I can complete it like this whole piece, but I don't want to write it If you aren't interested.
good luck

[shaggyy]

Really nicely played, you have a beautiful sound!
For Clair de Lune I would try to add some more tension in the beginning. I don't really now how to put it well (English is not my native language), but that you really hear well where a sentence starts and ends if you know what I mean. But besides that it was really beautiful, especially the middle and end, I loved how you played that.
And for the Nocturne I personally like it more if it is more slowly played, with more rubato. But I think that's just a personal opinion, cause you do bring out the melody very well. But overall very nicely played, I loved listening to you.

[furtwaengler]

For sake of comparison...and in this case a mark of consistency I put the readings of these pieces from a concert at a health center/nursing home. 

Now, what we have above are comments I very much appreciate from two new members. Shaggyy and Onwan, welcome to pianostreet. I can already tell you have much to contribute. Also to both of you, do not worry. Your English is much better than you give credit!

Ah, I am left in a predicament, for the time of these pieces has come and gone. They were both specific requests for a wedding, so I played them the day I recorded them, the day of the wedding, and then as a part of a little concert for a health center/nursing home, and that's about the extent of my involvement with them. Now, since I generally have so little time to practice, I'm having to be very specific in what I need to accomplish in practice, and so I have no real plans for these two pieces at present. However I got interested in Onwan's comments and a possible project:

I'll talk only about The nocturne because I'm learning this piece right now, so I'll be maybe a lot of critical. But if you want to hear true of interpretation (my personal and my teacher) this is it!
1) forgive my english.
2) the second note G it has to be played little bit slower and softly.
3) your left hand is so loud. I mean the basses are good but U-PA-PA (the pa-pa play quietly)
4) next think is, finish every phrase (everywhere ended ligature)
5) in 4th measure (Bb,D,C,Bb,Ab,G,Ab,C,D,E) slow down...a lot! there ends the firs part of piece. The first part play slower and quietly (1-4 measure) then you can be little bit faster and louder, but be calm!
ou, it is only a part of work...if you want, I can complete it like this whole piece, but I don't want to write it If you aren't interested.
good luck

Onwan, since you are learning this piece. What if you...

1) continued with your thoughts on the rest of the piece and
2) I attempted to put your direction into action and uploaded the results in this thread?

Do you think that would benefit your own practice of the piece and interpretive decisions? From the teaching and experimental standpoint, I see many ways in which this could be helpful to me. What do you think? The only problem really is a time gap if I'm not able to immediately address your thoughts at the piano.

A parting word on the Chopin seeing as both Shaggyy and Onwan mentioned the tempo as quick...Yes it is quick in terms of modern performance practice. However if the metronome indication is to be trusted at all, the edition I used has a marking of 1/8 = 132. Actually, I don't think I actually approached 132 in either performance here...however, keeping the marking in mind I tried to feel the flow of the piece and some variety and contrasts within a quicker framework. That at least gives you an idea of where I was coming from, for better or worse.

Thanks for listening and commenting!

[onwan]

OK. About my recording: I would be very proud if I was recorded it for you. But I have no much time now, So, I'll do it on weekend.
The tempo: that was My first question for my teacher-She told that I should play it slower. And I told "but in sheets is very fast tempo". She turned on the metronome , she was very surpriced how fast the tempo is. She told that I will play it little bit slower because the real tempo isn't good.     
Little bit about chopin and tempo: he was in love with opera. And he wrote his own music like opera. So, the right tempo is If you can sing it-not so fast, not so slow. It could help with other chopin pieces...
And now about the nocturne:
6) 5th bar is good but 6th bar is in my opinion little bit faster than it is necessary. And in the end of ascent, slow down. And just finis the next part (till 8th bar)
7)In the end of bar 8, there starts other part of the piece. Here is proper to speed up and play more forte. But in bar 9 (in the middle there is in sheets decrescendo, so do it and star with ritard. because in bar 10 you have to be very, very, very slow (actually I had big troubles with it).
bar 11 and 12 are really good
9) 13 bar starts with broken chord. Play it slower. the next notes play more expressive and do it till 16th bar. (it means- play it little bit faster and louder).
10) 17th and 18th bar could be lazier than bars 9 and 10 because it has to be different.
11) 19-24 bars just play the way like bars before
I think that now you have a lot of work so the last page I will do later. I'm so sorry but I'm tired now
Good luck with practice.