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Debate is good for Piano Forum (Read 2904 times)

Offline faulty_damper

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Debate is good for Piano Forum
« on: September 13, 2012, 11:00:53 PM »
I've been a member on PF for 9 years now.  Over that time, I've learned a lot from fellow members' knowledge and experiences.  But, like Bernhard, I felt that all the topics that can be discussed have been discussed.  Basic topics like sight-reading, technique, etc. don't hold appeal any longer.  As a result, like Bernhard, I stopped visiting this forum.  I've visited only occasionally only to see the same topics discussed, only with less fervor.  The forum was dead compared to the days of yesteryear.

There are probably more members now but the livelihood of discussion doesn't seem to be as involved.  Or maybe I simply don't care about the thousandth thread about sight-reading that has been discussed nine hundred and ninety-nine times before.  There isn't any new knowledge that can't be gained by doing a search on these boards.  That's why Bernhard simply answered questioned with links to relevant threads.  Which is why some of us replied in the same manner.

In the years since I've been on leave from Piano Forum, I've learned a lot.  Most of it is relevant to these boards.  It's something that hasn't been discussed here.  It's something that I want to share even if there is disagreement.  But that's exactly what I want.

I enjoy debate.  It challenges my knowledge and understanding and helps refine it through discussion.  Even though, in the heat of debate, names may be called, it's a minor annoyance (or side bar entertainment for the viewers) that is tolerated simply because, sometimes, the only way to move forward is to spend time to call each other idiots, take time to make up, and take some time to get back on track.

We learn by taking our assumptions to the line, on the line, and allowing it to take a hit.  If our ideas are never challenged, then we never expose it to the necessary criticism, scrutiny, and ridicule that is necessary for change if it isn't worthy of display.

I know that threads are rarely locked.  But when they are, usually, they are locked because it belongs on another forum and simply relocated to that forum.  But in this case, a topic that has never been discussed here before that has drawn a lot of readership is locked and...?  End of discussion.  Something new.  Squashed.

Many years ago, the threads that gave life to Piano Forum were discussed by those with a lot of knowledge.  New learners then would never have thought about the piano the way more knowledgeable people have discussed it.  But now, years later, those new learners discuss it more knowledgeably, more accurately, with more understanding to a process that is inherently difficult to understand.

The goal is to advance our collective knowledge of who we are as learners.  We need new ideas to be placed in our brown and black tank.  This is how Piano Forum thrived in the early years.  And I want it to continue to thrive.

Please consider unlocking the thread.  Debate is welcome.

Offline ted

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #1 on: September 14, 2012, 02:26:02 AM »
The creative aspects of piano playing, especially improvisation, are much better served here now than eleven years ago, largely thanks to the audition room and its improvisation subsidiary. The free exchange of ideas about what to play as well as how to play it is quite unlike what occurs on other piano forums, which tend to be dominated by experts with a vested interest in historically and commercially sanctioned ways of playing.

I never debate on any piano forum, mainly because I don't know enough about anything and fear putting people wrong. Of course the creative side by its nature is mostly immune to debate in that way. You just get on with it and people either like the results or they do not. So I am all right there. On the other hand, things like my own playing technique are so peculiar to me and directed toward such highly individual musical ends, that if I posted about it in detail, learners might take it as authoritative and go down a wrong path. That would worry me.

I also cannot see any sense in my arguing about which music is the best, the greatest and that sort of thing. Either I enjoy it or I do not, and much of what I enjoy, what moves me most deeply, is decidedly not "great" in the minds of most musicians.

However, I agree that intelligent debate can stimulate thought and provide new ways of viewing old issues. For instance I found the discussion, debate if you like, on speed, started by Opus10no2, highly intriguing, and there have been many other such threads.

I sometimes enjoy the debates very much, but as an observer rather than a participant for the above-mentioned reasons.    
"We're all bums when the wagon comes." - Waller

Offline outin

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #2 on: September 14, 2012, 03:22:02 AM »
First I didn't realize what the OP was talking about, but I see now that a certain thread is locked. I see nothing wrong in debating on a forum like this even to that extend. But it was simply getting too long and tedious for anyone else to read. Some participants also seemed to have lost focus a bit. So instead of unlocking, a fresh start would be best if you still want to have such a detailed conversation on the scientific side of learning.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #3 on: September 14, 2012, 03:37:42 AM »
For my two cents, I would support having the thread moved, probably either to Performance or Miscellaneous. I do not see that there is anything in it which would warrant it's total closure.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 02:21:09 PM »
It was locked party because and I'm sure the person who did it knows, that creating accounts and posting to support their argument is just silly. Also posting lewd links in signatures is not cool. I'm glad the thread was locked as a senior member.
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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #5 on: September 14, 2012, 03:37:44 PM »
I hope you realize my comments in the thread were for getting it moved, not stopping the debate.  I just didn't see how having that thread as one of the most viewed in "student's corner" was appropriate let alone even helpful.  I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, just simply didn't want to confuse new pianists with walls of texts that could boil down to "Yea-huh"... "Nuh-uh"... "OH YEAH?"

^ sorry for the mockery... kinda  :P
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 02:15:07 AM »
I still don't know why it was locked...  at least a reason should be given.  But locking it without reason doesn't provide feedback.  We are left to wonder why.  And it seemed like the thread was beginning to have a new change in direction to advance the topic further. :-\

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 11:35:51 PM »
And it seemed like the thread was beginning to have a new change in direction to advance the topic further. :-\

I agree, but...

I still don't know why it was locked...  at least a reason should be given.  But locking it without reason doesn't provide feedback.  We are left to wonder why.

It was locked party because and I'm sure the person who did it knows, that creating accounts and posting to support their argument is just silly.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline keypeg

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #8 on: September 28, 2012, 12:19:28 PM »
Could we at least know what thread is being talked about?

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 03:57:49 PM »
I still don't know why it was locked...  at least a reason should be given.  But locking it without reason doesn't provide feedback.  We are left to wonder why.  And it seemed like the thread was beginning to have a new change in direction to advance the topic further. :-\
I gave some reasons. If people create accounts just to talk to themselves there is no debate, just silliness.

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=47803

Is also filled with irrelevant info and talking past one another.
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 10:19:02 PM »
So why not just block or delete duplicate accounts?  Or give them a warning.  Who's the duplicate member(s), anyway?

Also, since a thread is like a conversation, it's normal for it to go in different directions.  Many threads go in different directions but they aren't locked for that reason.  It would be silly to lock a thread every time it goes off topic.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #11 on: September 29, 2012, 05:23:50 PM »
Dupe account is gone thank goodness. I personally hate threads that go on and on about nothing but in the guise that something very clever or detailed is being discussed.  Its always astounding when it gets so much attention, it makes piano street look stupid IMO. Why do people bother arguing over ideas that often sound made up on the spot and talk as if what they said is holy testament and anyone who disagrees must be challenged and proven wrong or mistake or whatever other correctives they want to channel. Just useless. We need moderators to moderate :)
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Offline pytheamateur

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Re: Debate is good for Piano Forum
«Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 10:25:54 PM »
We need more recordings on the Audition Room page.  No-one will bother reading old threads of anonymous members debating, no matter how good that is.  But a good recording will remain timeless.  This is a piano website afterall.
Beethoven - Sonata in C sharp minor, Op 27 No 12
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, Nocturn in C sharp minor, Op post
Brahms - Op 118, Nos 2 & 3