Moving a piano

[ranniks]

So when my upright came, the pianomovers wanted to move it through the window with a truck that had a pullup thing. But the window is not wide enough, just by an inch.....So we decided to put the piano in the living room.

My question is; how do you move a piano upstairs when it can't go through the window? Obviously you would think the stairs, but could you please look at the pictures below:

https://picasaweb.google.com/109062888589098156697/Y?authkey=Gv1sRgCN7-xu6HqpboGw

The moves said 'no no, that's far too dangerous'. I showed the movers some videos on youtube on how other movers moved the piano upstairs. They said 'yes, but the stairs are different'.

My teacher however said that movers can do it, but because of laws and such won't. But he also said I could buy some piano rope, get some strong people and move it up the stairs. He said he moved pianos once too. The stairs is around 10-15 steps I think? The piano is around 200kg the movers said.

I could get the windows widened, but I think that's way, way too pricy. The thing is, they wouldn't need to break the stone, just the wood frame.

What is your opinion and how should I go with this? Is it even possible to get it in my room?

Edit: The is a console upright, so it's not really that tall/wide etc.

[outin]

So when my upright came, the pianomovers wanted to move it through the window with a truck that had a pullup thing. But the window is not wide enough, just by an inch.....So we decided to put the piano in the living room.

My question is; how do you move a piano upstairs when it can't go through the window? Obviously you would think the stairs, but could you please look at the pictures below:

https://picasaweb.google.com/109062888589098156697/Y?authkey=Gv1sRgCN7-xu6HqpboGw

The moves said 'no no, that's far too dangerous'. I showed the movers some videos on youtube on how other movers moved the piano upstairs. They said 'yes, but the stairs are different'.

My teacher however said that movers can do it, but because of laws and such won't. But he also said I could buy some piano rope, get some strong people and move it up the stairs. He said he moved pianos once too. The stairs is around 10-15 steps I think? The piano is around 200kg the movers said.

I could get the windows widened, but I think that's way, way too pricy. The thing is, they wouldn't need to break the stone, just the wood frame.

What is your opinion and how should I go with this? Is it even possible to get it in my room?

Edit: The is a console upright, so it's not really that tall/wide etc.

An upright is not that heavy... A couple of really strong guys should be able to do it, as long as there is enough space in the staircase to turn? Were the movers last time actual pianomovers? Of course hireing a professional will cost...Don't you have friends who are into extreme workout?

But a word of warning...your piano was just tuned...I believe moving it might have some effect on that.

[ranniks]

Of course hireing a professional will cost...Don't you have friends who are into extreme workout?

I was surprised that the movers didn't want to move it upstairs either, but there were 2 of them. They were professionals so to speak and mostly moved pianos with their machines through the window.

Why does everyone say that ('strong friends')? My piano seller advised it, my teacher and now you too? I have friends, but not that many. I do have a friend who's really into working out and he's huge. My teacher and the seller even said just give them a beer or two. I'm not that social......

I just don't like the idea of such social pressure and what if they drop the piano. No, I just have one strong friend to be honest and I'm not that super close with him or any other friends. Maybe 2 or 4 friends I'm close with but they aren't muscular people.

I posted an add just now to see if someone is willing to do it.

But Outin, have you clicked on the link for the pictures?

[outin]

I was surprised that the movers didn't want to move it upstairs either, but there were 2 of them. They were professionals so to speak and mostly moved pianos with their machines through the window.

I guess if they are used to using their machines, they may not be into carrying heavy loads up to chairs...

When I bought my piano the seller actually used firemen who moonlighted with moving pianos.

Why does everyone say that ('strong friends')? My piano seller advised it, my teacher and now you too? I have friends, but not that many. I do have a friend who's really into working out and he's huge. My teacher and the seller even said just give them a beer or two. I'm not that social......

I just don't like the idea of such social pressure and what if they drop the piano. No, I just have one strong friend to be honest and I'm not that super close with him or any other friends. Maybe 2 or 4 friends I'm close with but they aren't muscular people.

I posted an add just now to see if someone is willing to do it.

I understand you perfectly, I also hate to ask people for favours... But if it's important enough...?

But Outin, have you clicked on the link for the pictures?

I did and I think you would first need to do some measuring to make sure that whoever is carrying the piano has room to turn at the angle on the stairs. Could be that the piano movers were right, maybe it's too tight 

[hfmadopter]

To negotiate that turn in the stairs I do believe the piano would have to go on its end. To do that it is mounted on a skid ( for a lack of a better term) and you slide it up the stairs on the skid. You don't actually lift the piano and try to carry it up the stairs. It gets strapped to the skid ( I hate calling it a skid because there is a technical term for it that is slipping my mind !).

With grands you take the legs and top off off and turn it on it's side, put it on a skid with wheels, looks almost like a big skate board, put down some planks and roll it any place you want to go. This assuming of course you have such a device. When my grand came home thats how we moved it. Chris , my tech at the time helped me move it. He had the skid/ sled/skate board with the rollers on it and some planks, I had the rest of the planks.. We blocked up the planks spanning the steps coming in the front door and rolled it on in !

[iansinclair]

I think David's right -- it will have to be turned on one end and set on a skid (I can't remember the technical term either!).  Boards on the stairs to make a steep ramp to slide it up on might help.

Strength is part of the equation.  A big part.  But may I strongly recommend also having a couple of ropes on the poor thing, not so much to drag it up the stairs as to belay it -- keep it from sliding back -- if someone slips or just needs a breather.

It will need to be retuned after it has been moved.

[ranniks]

Thanks David, Outin and Ian!

So a company is willing to move the thing up the stairs, but for 180 euros. I don't mind since that was the initial price for getting the piano at my home and up the stairs (360 euros, they took of 190 because they couldn't get it up the stairs).

Tuning it will be necessary I guess, thanks. I think it would be wise to move the piano right before the next tuning or maybe sooner.

So you guys are 100% sure it is possible? I mean, why the heck wouldn't the movers suggest me something instead of saying how dangerous it was and talking about the turn. They were 2 tall fellows, not too muscular, but tall and I'd say.

So I read some references of the company; a lot of people are happy about them saying that the guys are strong and such. They have moved pianos but other items as well. I'm going to mail them asking how they are planning to move the piano (for their own safety and ours of course).

Should I mention anything in the mail besides the skid?

[outin]

So you guys are 100% sure it is possible? I mean, why the heck wouldn't the movers suggest me something instead of saying how dangerous it was and talking about the turn. They were 2 tall fellows, not too muscular, but tall and I'd say.

Unfortunately nothing in life is 100% (except that we all die I guess .

If this is a professional company they should have insurance in case something happens. And make sure you have a deal that if they cannot do it you won't have to pay.

You seem to be the worrying type...I understand, since I am too....but to gain things in life sometimes you just have to do things even if they potentionally could go wrong...

[ranniks]

Unfortunately nothing in life is 100% (except that we all die I guess .

If this is a professional company they should have insurance in case something happens. And make sure you have a deal that if they cannot do it you won't have to pay.

You seem to be the worrying type...I understand, since I am too....but to gain things in life sometimes you just have to do things even if they potentionally could go wrong...

I´m sort of paranoid....I wouldn´t say I´m crazy paranoid, just the regular paranoid type. I was sweating rivers the day the piano was coming. In my mind I always put the things that could go wrong first, thriving to find what could go wrong instead of go good. Not sure if I need a psychologist, but still=/.....

I think, since the piano has to be tuned again, I'm going to wait just before the next tuning before having it moved.

[hmpiano]

If I did it with friends I'd take all the panels off, the action out, and maybe even the keys off.  All that leaves is the iron framed harp and some surrounding body - it'll negotiate turns easier too.

[ranniks]

Another move company has contacted me. They specialise in moving pianos and have seen the pictures of the stairs and want to see the piano. I've send them pictures. Let's see what kind of price they ask. Everything has insurance with them as well.

[ranniks]

Their website (pictures included):

https://schotverhuizingen.nl/cgi-bin/weblog_basic/index.php?page_id=21

[Bob]

I bet the neighbor below loves seeing something that going in upstairs.  (Don't think about that grand piano resting just over your head.)

If it's only an inch, literally, with the windows, I was wondering if they could remove some of the framing and trim to squeeze it through.

[hfmadopter]

Another move company has contacted me. They specialise in moving pianos and have seen the pictures of the stairs and want to see the piano. I've send them pictures. Let's see what kind of price they ask. Everything has insurance with them as well.

A professional moving company will say that they can do it or they can't do it. If they say they can do it, so be it, they will get it done. That's a tricky stairway to get a piano up but it's their problem to handle and they will know how. You don't need to second guess them.

If the piano won't make it through the window by just an inch I would think that some framework could be removed, slide in the piano and put the wood work back on ! Again, a professional company should know this. Or else there is something about the window we don't know about, like it's steel framed and welded together or some such thing.

[hfmadopter]

If it's only an inch, literally, with the windows, I was wondering if they could remove some of the framing and trim to squeeze it through.

Funny, we must have posted at the same time !

[Bob]

I was wondering how much your can strip a piano down.  I think it's the metal frame with the box on it though.  The idea being to take the whole piano apart and rebuild it inside.  If that's possible.

[ranniks]

Thanks Bob and David. Yes, one would think just removing the wooden thing would be sufficient, but alas.

I've got some updates for you thought. The first company told me they would come with 3 guys, put some kind of mattras under the piano and slide the piano up the stairs. They said they could go with a plank, but because of the turn would need to pull the plank underneath it and reposition it. They would do the matras to avoid damages to the piano.

Would my piano be completely out of tune if I have it moved this week? Or could I wait 3 months and have the technician come and do a full tuning? The technician did a quick tuning last week orso because he had to take a look at the hammers as well. The piano sounds much better now and the only worry I have is what will happen to the tune if I have it moved this week.

Logically I could wait 3 months before the move and have it tuned then. But the thing is, if I have it moved this week I can play more flexibly without having to consider my family and the tv in the living room....

I'll wait for the reply of the second company and keep you guys updated.

[ranniks]

After watching:

I'm convinced it is possible. Watched some other vids of them and they do some pretty impressive things.

[hmpiano]

No, this is the vid to watch:

[ranniks]

The second company, cheaper and well known and has insurance, will move the piano with 'carry singles'. I have no idea what carry singles are.

I think I am having the piano moved this week I just can't be bothered to plead for an hour play time.

I'll judge if the piano needs to be tuned pronto then, if not, it's end of december for me.

[hfmadopter]

No, this is the vid to watch:

And I was going to look for the Laurel and Hardy piano mover skit too, you beat me too it LOL !!

[hfmadopter]

The second company, cheaper and well known and has insurance, will move the piano with 'carry singles'. I have no idea what carry singles are.

I think I am having the piano moved this week I just can't be bothered to plead for an hour play time.

I'll judge if the piano needs to be tuned pronto then, if not, it's end of december for me.

Sounds like a plan.

[ranniks]

The movers are coming this friday, at 7 o clock in the morning. I'm not going to worry one bit; I'm paying them and if they - people with experience - say they can do it, I am not going to question them.

It will be neet to see how they are going to do it though.

The joy; never having to plead with the family to shut up so I can play the piano. According to my dad I'm the only 'musical' person in the family now, lol.

I get home from internship, put on my headphones (sound muting ones) and play bach until my heart cries, lol. Well, most likely just an hour or an hour and a half.

My piano tech told me to contact the same company who brought the piano here. He didn't know they were the ones who brought it here though. Not gonna do that; refusing to bring it up the stairs when they promised me it could go up the stairs when I showed them the pictures.

I'll keep you updated all, ty for all the help.

[hfmadopter]

I know what you mean, I practice and or play 2-3 hours per day most days with one off here or there and practice longer on weekends generally. i'm used to sitting freely most any time at my piano with only the cats to bother. While my Sister In Law was here this summer I knocked that down to a few minutes, feeling strangled. By the end of summer she had no work so was around the house constantly, very unnerving. Looks like now she is relocating to where there is more work in her field. I'm really hoping that works out for her, both for us, myself and also for her own sake as well. Her life was clearly on a dead end track here.

 The movers should have a physical look at your situation vs just pictures ? But they will do that Friday anyway, they won't venture up the stairs with the piano unless they know they can do the move..

[ranniks]

I know what you mean, I practice and or play 2-3 hours per day most days with one off here or there and practice longer on weekends generally. i'm used to sitting freely most any time at my piano with only the cats to bother. While my Sister In Law was here this summer I knocked that down to a few minutes, feeling strangled. By the end of summer she had no work so was around the house constantly, very unnerving. Looks like now she is relocating to where there is more work in her field. I'm really hoping that works out for her, both for us, myself and also for her own sake as well. Her life was clearly on a dead end track here.

I know, it's frustrating right? You want to play but can't because of something keeping you from it. I can only imagine your frustrations.

The movers should have a physical look at your situation vs just pictures ? But they will do that Friday anyway, they won't venture up the stairs with the piano unless they know they can do the move..

That's my main and only concern to be honest. But if they can't I'll look into getting the window slightly opened in the future.

I was wondering though, what if they removed the metal and the door of the window? That should cover the few extra inches I would think.

It would be wonderfull if they could handle the job.

[hfmadopter]

You will know Friday ! But ya, I think I may have mentioned removing the frame at one point, as did another poster. My concern with it being metal is if it's welded or screwed together.

[ranniks]

You will know Friday ! But ya, I think I may have mentioned removing the frame at one point, as did another poster. My concern with it being metal is if it's welded or screwed together.

That's correct, I forgot to mention you both, sorry. But I just checked the window. The iron is engraved in the wood with screws but also with nails, so that's going to be troublesome.

But I'm going to hope for the best. My dad just told me to leave it to the experts, so I will.

Edit:






Just some more pictures.

[quantum]

Is it possible to remove the window pane?  That may just give you another inch. 

[hfmadopter]

That's correct, I forgot to mention you both, sorry. But I just checked the window. The iron is engraved in the wood with screws but also with nails, so that's going to be troublesome.

But I'm going to hope for the best. My dad just told me to leave it to the experts, so I will.

Just some more pictures.

These photos show that as being a really tight stairway, almost like a loft ladder. Well, as I said you will know if it can be done on Friday. Movers usually have tools with them to remove things like window frames or doors to get just enough room, nailed or screwed may not matter much but they don't have cutting torches if a metal frame is welded.

Good luck !

[ranniks]

They actually did it!

I was praying for their safety and the pianos before I went sleeping. They came at the time promised and the chief looked at the stairs first. Then they removed 2 of the holdbars and they put the piano on a roling plank. They hovered it on the side and put the side on the stairs.

They were men around the age of 30-50 (I'm in to detail!) and you had to see the magic for yourself. The turn was tricky and the man below was puffing, but they managed it! In 10 minutes the thing went from down to up. The actually stair climbing took about 5 minutes. I paid them 160 euros, which is around 200-300 dollars orso.

They removed the lids first, showcasing the keys. I must say, they did a very good job. The chief asked me who brought the piano here, I named the company. The company was well known for moving pianos so he asked me how many men came, I told them two and he said that they couldn't do it with just the two of them. Then he said his company specialised in the sort of things.

My dad - 60 or 61 years old - was afraid of them hurting themselves and even went so far as helping them. I'm not sure if he helped or not, but oh well. I even went in and gave the thing a slight push but I must say, I had no part in the moving.

If they actually moved the thing up those stairs when an other professional company refused it, I believe they can move anything. They earned their money alright. I got a paper with the official amount paid and such; very professional.

Nothing of the stairs was damaged at all and the walls were intact.

I'm really happy. I quickly did a half c scale on the piano and it sounded fine and the action was fine too. Will test it thoroughly later on the day when I return to home.

Oh and I'm never having the window in my room opened, maybe slightly, and the warmer will also never be on. My piano is staying in a steady environment, yes it is.

[ranniks]

Also: I can finally play in all peace and serenity. I even got a set of sound muting headphones incase I hear noise from downstairs or outside.

[outin]

Great news!

Don't overdo it though ,after 10 hours playing or so you might get a cramp in your hand 

[ranniks]

Great news!

Don't overdo it though ,after 10 hours playing or so you might get a cramp in your hand  

If only. It's just so much better now, no more having to plead and all, lol.

Still can't believe what actually happened today. One of them had the entire side of the piano on his right shoulder and the other underneath it pushing while the third was on the above said navigating the whole thing.

[quantum]

Congratulations on the successful and safe move!  Enjoy playing your piano 

[iansinclair]

I'm delighted!  Wonderful!

[ranniks]

Thanks both!

[hfmadopter]

Thanks both!

This is wonderful news ! Nothing is worse than being restricted on your practice time. Often an hour won't cut it .

[ranniks]

This is wonderful news ! Nothing is worse than being restricted on your practice time. Often an hour won't cut it .

Absolutely!

[bphaulage]

see this video they is only two men doing the move downstairs with a yamaha u1 or something, the movers are from a company called bphaulage https://www.couriersburnley.co.uk im not sure were you live but you could try them

[Bob]

Ouch.  Break your back doing that.  I wouldn't want to be the mover below the piano. 

Interesting story.

In the video above I wonder why the top guy doesn't have ropes or cables of some kind.  That's putting a lot of strain on his fingers.  Or the stairs.

[ranniks]

Okay, what must go up must go down as well, right?

I'm in need of space and the piano would fit better in the living room now.

I'm feeling anxious about calling the movers again since I think they will injure themselves moving the thing down the stairs. It went allright the previous time, but my dad told me that going down the stairs is much more difficult.

I also might get a new piano one day. I was wondering if it would be more convenient for the movers if they destroyed large bits of the piano? Like taking out the keyboard and front side. Leaving only something like this:



Would it? I love the piano, but one day I'll want to buy a new piano.

Would love and care greatly to hear from you on this matter. I could just call the movers again and ask them, but I really want to tell them to be carefull.

[indianajo]

I wondered who brought this old thread up.  You're authorized.  
Post WWII Console pianos of 1.1 m height are only 160 kilograms, not 200.  200 KG would be an old pre WWII upright piano 160 cm tall with the iron frame.  Those are much more difficult.  When I was 25 and weighed 60 KG I carried half a 200 kg  upright down a stairs, with three "Peakload" men who were obvious winos.  The one helping on my end collapsed on the stairs, and the three of us had to carry the piano over him and down the stairs.  I was the man on the low end by myself
I moved my 1941 Steinway 40 console down a single flight of stairs in 2010 when I was 60, so it is not that difficult. I'm 80 kg now but most of the excess over age 25 is flab.  The man that helped me move the Steinway in 2010 has a hernia and doesn't push or lift, he just stacks up boards under the end to hold it while I shove the 4 wheel dolly under it.  
The hard part of a stair move happens when the landing is not big enough to take the piano flat, that is less than 110 cm stair lip to back of landing.  If you can land the piano on its bottom and turn around, that is not too difficult a move.  Two men can do that easily, and a 60 kg healthy man should be fine.  For landings where the piano has to go around the turn on its end, that is much more difficult.  The upper person has to push out on the bottom of the piano to get the bottom end up on the cart or rug on the landing, so the man on the bottom is holding the entire weight of the piano plus some excess force while that happens.   It takes a pro to not break the veneer at the bottom corner if using carpet. I much prefer a rubber covered 4 wheel dolly for those types of move.  
As far as disassembly, the  parts I recommend taking off every time are the music rack, the key cover, the kick plate.  The top likes to swing out when the piano is on its side  and should be strapped down with flat nylon straps before picking it up.  
The estimator of the company that had the crane on the first move, and hadn't noticed the window frame was smaller than the piano, was incompetent.  Using a tape measure to determine greater than or less than is a seventh grade skill, not rocket science.  
Work rules are rather stringent in Europe, and it is hard to prove a man doesn't suffer from back pain, so a lot of worker's comp cases may arise from piano moves that really are a case of some helper wanting an easy life for a few months.  Piano moves are done most successfully and economically  in the US by small teams of people that run their own company.  
One further tip in people to get to help informally. Short people have less trouble with the disks in their backs than tall people.  I'm about 162 cm and my back is holding up nicely.  Lifting has to be done with the back erect, and if it can't be done smoothly, should not be attempted. The power should come from the legs and gluteal muscles, not the back muscles.   Jerking the weight with the back horizontal is for Olympic class athletes, and should have no part of a profession or hobby like piano moving.  I've moved four organ consoles in here in the last five years besides the Steinway 40.  They also were about 160 kg each.    

[ranniks]

Thanks Indianajo! I've contacted the same moving company. I hope they can move the piano down the stairs. According to my tuner this piano of mine was built in the 60s/70s.

I truly hope they can do it and not hurt themselves in the proces or damage my house.