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Why do girls hate math? (Read 18320 times)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #50 on: October 08, 2012, 11:31:21 PM »


None of my teachers praises my brother or me more. We are both congratulated when we do good work, and scolded for bad, and we both see each other scolded or praised. No, the scolding doesn't cause me to do my work worse. It causes a drive for me to do it better.



You can't use your own personal experiences to represent any statistical significance.


And Faulty Damper is conveying his point from the psychoanalytic point of view which is probably why you think what he is saying is absurd; most people don't really embrace That view anyways because it's not always comforting.
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Offline werq34ac

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #51 on: October 08, 2012, 11:38:10 PM »
Your perspective of the research is different from mine, therefore continuation of the topic is futile.

It's been interesting talking with you! I enjoyed the discussion!



Reading the whole damn thing when I should be working on my Euro paper,

Gender bias and racial bias is VERY present in the world. If I get an A, some a$$hole says it's because I'm asian. As faulty said, black people people generally don't do well in school. A lot of them do, but most of them don't. I'd say the black people at my school the highest ranked black person is somewhere around top 40%. I'm not saying there can't be a black person who does well in school.

I'm going to digress here, but about the term African-American. It is incredibly incorrect and it's used by people who think black sounds racist. If black is racist, then white is racist as well. And the only thing African about them is their skin color. When Africans first came to America, then they could have been called African-American. 200 years in America has allowed them to develop their own rich culture. That culture may borrow from African culture, but their culture is American. Not African. Asian Americans retain their Asian culture (whether it be Chinese, Japanese, or Korean. Or white-washed, but that's a different story). Black people have no retention of their African heritage. And so it would be incorrect to call them African-American. It's almost degrading. Black culture has a rich heritage and their story is one of freedom and equality.

ANYWAY, the reason black people are poorer than whites is because of the influences they grow up in. Asians succeed in school because their parents expect them to get nothing but As. An Asian parent who doesn't is somewhat uncommon. The opposite is true for Black parents. There are black parents who push their kids to get As. But most black parents will be more than satisfied if their kid gets a B.

Kevjumba's grading scale.
If you're white, C is average, B is better, A is awesome.
If you're Asian, A is average, B is bad, C is crap, D is dead meat, and F is F***ed



Now for gender bias. If a teacher has math phobia, they will convey the message that math is hard. I don't think gender has anything to do with that; both boys and girls will suffer in math from having a teacher who is not good at math. The only way they won't suffer is if the kid is already better at math than his/her teacher (me in 5th grade. My 5th grade teacher was horrible at math.)
Now for gender bias. I have no idea whether some teachers think that girls aren't as good at math. Now if we can assume this to be true, then girls will definitely suffer. Expectations are huge. Failing to meet expectations is incredibly humiliating. Meeting expectations is satisfying. Exceeding expectations is gratifying.

Studies have shown that kids that teachers think are not as smart as some of their peers will not be as successful in school. The difference is how the teacher interacts. It's subtle and the teacher might not even realize it. But what happens is that if a teacher asks a question to a kid that he/she thinks is smart and the kid answers wrong, then the teacher will help the kid eventually reach the right answer, because he/she thinks that the student has the right idea but not quite. Now if she asks a question to a kid with the exact same intelligence, but the teacher feels the student isn't so smart, and the kid gets it wrong, the teacher will think oh well, he/she doesn't know the answer and move on to another kid. The kid loses out on a valuable learning experience. Multiply by the 180 days of the year and consider the exponential nature of learning. Teacher thinks he/she is being fair, but in reality it's incredibly detrimental.

If this is happening with girls, it's a serious issue.
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #52 on: October 08, 2012, 11:46:02 PM »
I was recently thinking that a teacher's perception of students can really sway grades.  I ran into a foreign teacher working here.  Different take on the whole thing.  I was thinking that that teacher could probably sway grades maybe even one or two letters based on what they thought the student should get.  And then you take the extremes -- One student getting a C but acting like an A -- Grade gets raised on everything.  Or a student getting an A but acting more like a C student during off times.  The teacher has a hard time giving them an A and doesn't give an inch gradewise.

This has been tested in a lab.  An adult is told that the child, say her name is Susan, in the room is slow.  That adult walks into the room and plays with her but talks to her simply and slowly, like the child is stupid.  Another adult is told that Susan is very bright.  That adult walks into the room and talks normally, and plays more intelligently with her.  IT'S THE SAME CHILD!  And yet based only on prior information, people act according to what they thought prior.  This is the same effect that is observed in grades/academic performance as mentioned in one of the links.

Quote
And then there's the power of an adult/authority figure over kids.  I've wondered several times.  If I actually said something about a student being overweight... Is that going to cause an eating disorder?
Short answer: No. As long as you say it in a caring, non-judgemental way, it's fine.  If said in a demeaning way, that will make the person feel bad and you'd be a jerk for saying it.

Quote
Looks or appearance I wouldn't dare comment on.  Being a guy.  No leeway.  That was really emphasized in college.  Doesn't matter what the gender of the student is.  You never comment on appearance at all.  "I like your t-shirt."  Nope.  You never know how the student will interpret that.  Haha... Actually you can get in trouble for praising them too if it's within earshot of another student -- You just gave out some grade/performance information.  Or the student didn't want anyone to know they did well and you just blew it for them.

Bizarre stuff.

Maybe it's the person saying it.  Imagine an obviously gay man making comments to a woman about her appearance: "You look FA-BU-LOUS!"  [that is such a fun word to say! LOL  ;D]  I can't stop laughing.  Anyway... at least a gay man making a comment about a woman's appearance is socially acceptable.  Fabulous!

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #53 on: October 09, 2012, 12:09:22 AM »
Studies have shown that kids that teachers think are not as smart as some of their peers will not be as successful in school. The difference is how the teacher interacts. It's subtle and the teacher might not even realize it. But what happens is that if a teacher asks a question to a kid that he/she thinks is smart and the kid answers wrong, then the teacher will help the kid eventually reach the right answer, because he/she thinks that the student has the right idea but not quite. Now if she asks a question to a kid with the exact same intelligence, but the teacher feels the student isn't so smart, and the kid gets it wrong, the teacher will think oh well, he/she doesn't know the answer and move on to another kid. The kid loses out on a valuable learning experience. Multiply by the 180 days of the year and consider the exponential nature of learning. Teacher thinks he/she is being fair, but in reality it's incredibly detrimental.

I've unfortunately had the recent displeasure of volunteering my time in a classroom where the teacher was a white woman who's been teaching for 10 years.  She lined up her class by sex (boys and girls line), punished by sex (usually the boys get punished), favored the white students even when students of other races were comparable in academic ability, disliked the special ed students (she hated having one hispanic boy who had ADD in her classroom and told him to go back to the resource room whenever he came back to class early), disliked the terrorists in the class (those of middle eastern descent)... she even disliked me because I made her students more relaxed and happy.  I also taught lessons better than she did and she thought I made her look bad.

Anyway, the sad thing about what I observed was that I felt completely powerless to do anything about it.  It's really difficult to admit what I just wrote because I don't think that teachers should think and act in those ways and I never ever expected that to happen, not in this century.  I just recently found out that lining up a class by sex is illegal (Title IX) and am contemplating reporting the entire school to the state department of education for the things I've observed.  It wasn't just one teacher committing these acts.  It was many.

But about the special ed students: they all believed that they were stupid.  Even the special ed teacher thought they were stupid.  One time, I was helping someone and I noticed across the room a lot of red marks on the page as it was being turned.  I immediately walked over to make sure I had saw that right.  I wasn't mistaken, this girl had pages of homework marked in red for every single problem... What the f**k...   He gave homework without teaching  her how to do it correctly so she did all the homework wrong!  What an assh073.  I showed her how to do it correctly and she was able to correct them.  But I hated that special ed teacher ever since.

This is anecdotal evidence that thinking that someone is capable or incapable has a direct effect on how you treat someone.  I'm guilty of it as well.  But in a setting such as education, where children are required to go, that makes it so much worse since they don't have a choice who their teachers are.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #54 on: October 09, 2012, 12:20:18 AM »
Also, that girl had very low self-esteem.  She gave up easily.  Rarely did homework.  Didn't have any friends.  (I was her only friend.)  Her classmates thought she was stupid. Not explicitly; they just knew she didn't do the same math work as the rest of the class.  But what was worse was that even her mom thought she was stupid.  Everyone around her and close to her thought she was stupid.  Is it any wonder why she thought the same thing?  Why her self-esteem was so low?  Why she didn't have any confidence in her abilities?  It seemed like I was the only one who thought differently.

Offline Bob

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #55 on: October 09, 2012, 12:30:38 AM »
This has been tested in a lab.  An adult is told that the child, say her name is Susan, in the room is slow.  That adult walks into the room and plays with her but talks to her simply and slowly, like the child is stupid.  Another adult is told that Susan is very bright.  That adult walks into the room and talks normally, and plays more intelligently with her.  IT'S THE SAME CHILD!  And yet based only on prior information, people act according to what they thought prior.  This is the same effect that is observed in grades/academic performance as mentioned in one of the links.
Short answer: No. As long as you say it in a caring, non-judgemental way, it's fine.  If said in a demeaning way, that will make the person feel bad and you'd be a jerk for saying it.

Maybe it's the person saying it.  Imagine an obviously gay man making comments to a woman about her appearance: "You look FA-BU-LOUS!"  [that is such a fun word to say! LOL  ;D]  I can't stop laughing.  Anyway... at least a gay man making a comment about a woman's appearance is socially acceptable.  Fabulous!

I'd be very leery of anything weightwise with a female student.  A male student wouldn't be as affected.  I think a female student could be primed for an eating disorder.


The fabulous quote -- You're not going to get a gay guy in the classroom like that.  They'd get weeded out of interview process.  Same thing for punk, etc.  I suppose that might be another kind of bias -- Lack of presence.  When I was in college the professors even told people to take out ear rings and cover up any tattoos if they wanted a job.  I remember one female college student freaking out a little because she thought interviewers would think she was a lesbian based on her looks.  *Bob is glad he's not mistaken for a lesbian.*

I guess I ended up going with no comment.  Don't notice.  Don't pay attention.  Never comment.  Less praise even.



Another one -- Teachers are all white.  ...Translates into people in power are white.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline Bob

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #56 on: October 09, 2012, 12:37:26 AM »
On this topic, one thing I really didn't like in college was taking four classes -- different titles, etc. -- but they all covered this.  "In case you didn't get it the first time... or second or third time..."   Not just that they covered, but that was the class, over and over.  Foundations of Education:  Political Correctness IV.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline clavile

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #57 on: October 09, 2012, 01:00:50 AM »
That sounds like a cop out.  Are you sure it isn't because you don't want to look for an actual reason?  How can you disagree without a real reason?

No, It is not a cop out. I have to go do my Algebra. Which I hate. And, I'm not willing to do hours of research to try to prove a point which you won't accept.


In the end, everybody has strong beliefs. And I don't believe any of that stuff. My disagreement is that I believe it is based on foolishness.

There's a simple rule in life that I'm sure we all have heard before. "Don't believe everything you hear". 

Maybe I don't have any amazing research to prove a point, but who cares? I'm standing by what I believe, which is the best thing you can do.
 




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Offline werq34ac

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #58 on: October 09, 2012, 01:21:32 AM »
No, It is not a cop out. I have to go do my Algebra. Which I hate. And, I'm not willing to do hours of research to try to prove a point which you won't accept.


In the end, everybody has strong beliefs. And I don't believe any of that stuff. My disagreement is that I believe it is based on foolishness.

Maybe I don't have any amazing research to prove a point, but who cares? I'm standing by what I believe, which is the best thing you can do.


So you think that dressing up girls as princesses isn't bias? Why don't we dress boys up as princesses then? Your parents aren't biased? All humans are biased. It's impossible not to be. We make decisions based on our previous experiences and knowledge. We attempt to predict the future based on previous experience and knowledge. We make assumptions based on previous experience and knowledge. Is that not bias?

You're standing by what you believe in? What if evidence says your're wrong? When our beliefs our being attacked, either we should be able to justify our beliefs despite the evidence against it or we should reexamine our beliefs and maybe adjust it to fit the truth. There are exactly two things that show that a person's faith is not strong when they are faced with evidence against their beliefs. They either adapt the opponent's viewpoint immediately and without thought, or they vehemently deny the evidence is valid once again, without thought. Sorry for making the topic somewhat religious. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with faith. But if you are unable to properly defend your faith without resorting to ignoring the opposition, then perhaps you are better off with no faith at all.

And I'm not saying you're religious. I'm saying when you state your beliefs on the internet, be prepared to defend them.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #59 on: October 09, 2012, 01:30:14 AM »
In the end, everybody has strong beliefs. And I don't believe any of that stuff. My disagreement is that I believe it is based on foolishness.


Maybe I don't have any amazing research to prove a point, but who cares? I'm standing by what I believe, which is the best thing you can do.

VERY fallacious statement there.
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Offline clavile

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #60 on: October 09, 2012, 01:50:06 AM »
So you think that dressing up girls as princesses isn't bias? Why don't we dress boys up as princesses then? Your parents aren't biased? All humans are biased. It's impossible not to be. We make decisions based on our previous experiences and knowledge. We attempt to predict the future based on previous experience and knowledge. We make assumptions based on previous experience and knowledge. Is that not bias?

You're standing by what you believe in? What if evidence says your're wrong? When our beliefs our being attacked, either we should be able to justify our beliefs despite the evidence against it or we should reexamine our beliefs and maybe adjust it to fit the truth. There are exactly two things that show that a person's faith is not strong when they are faced with evidence against their beliefs. They either adapt the opponent's viewpoint immediately and without thought, or they vehemently deny the evidence is valid once again, without thought. Sorry for making the topic somewhat religious. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with faith. But if you are unable to properly defend your faith without resorting to ignoring the opposition, then perhaps you are better off with no faith at all.

And I'm not saying you're religious. I'm saying when you state your beliefs on the internet, be prepared to defend them.


Yes, I understand there are biases. I think its foolish to say dressing up girls as princesses is biased. It's taking it to an extreme extent that it wasn't meant to be.

Yes, I also understand that biases can be good or bad.

What you're saying is perfectly true! Do I have research to back it up? No, I don't! But I can safely say I have not "ignored" it. My parents, grandparents, friends and I have all talked about these topics before, and all of us are in agreement that it is foolishness. Yes, you could say my family is biased therefore I am biased, but why psychoanalyze everything in the world? It becomes ridiculous at a certain point.
 
I'm a religious person, so don't worry. Even if I wasn't religious I wouldn't be upset for you saying that.

And hey, we all learn lessons in life, and I learned a few during this conversation, so it's no loss for me!

I enjoyed it!
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Offline clavile

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #61 on: October 09, 2012, 01:53:28 AM »
VERY fallacious statement there.

You bet! ;D

But it's true!




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Offline werq34ac

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #62 on: October 09, 2012, 02:29:57 AM »

Yes, I understand there are biases. I think its foolish to say dressing up girls as princesses is biased. It's taking it to an extreme extent that it wasn't meant to be.

Yes, I also understand that biases can be good or bad.

What you're saying is perfectly true! Do I have research to back it up? No, I don't! But I can safely say I have not "ignored" it. My parents, grandparents, friends and I have all talked about these topics before, and all of us are in agreement that it is foolishness. Yes, you could say my family is biased therefore I am biased, but why psychoanalyze everything in the world? It becomes ridiculous at a certain point.
 
I'm a religious person, so don't worry. Even if I wasn't religious I wouldn't be upset for you saying that.

And hey, we all learn lessons in life, and I learned a few during this conversation, so it's no loss for me!

I enjoyed it!
Well how much of it is foolishness? Because the point I'm arguing is that if teachers have a bias towards a student that the student isn't as smart, then the student's learning will suffer because the teacher won't expect as much out of that student. The part I haven't read because I'm too lazy is whether there is this bias against girls.

Now if you agree with my point, then I see no point in arguing other than to clarify my point so other people can agree or disagree with it. If whether teachers are biased against girls is the issue, then I don't really have a strong argument for or against it because I have been lazy in not reading all the articles. Although I did read everyone's discussion.


This is just pure speculation and biased observation, guys tend to display their intelligence more often I think. It's probably just the whole "my d1ck is bigger" complex that most guys tend to have. But it could lead to guys APPEARING to be smarter to teachers (emphasis on "appearing" to avoid offending any feminists out there). Guys tend to be competitive about everything, although it's all friendly competition (unless the guys are dbags). You don't want to hang around guys who are seriously competitive (those dbags). Every test we get back, there's always a round of "HA! I beat you!" among the guys. If a girl says that, it looks pretentious for some reason. Unless she is very good friends with the guys; then she's a bro. I mean, girls compare grades, too, but they never say HA! I beat you. They say nice job.
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Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #63 on: October 09, 2012, 02:48:52 AM »
Now if you agree with my point, then I see no point in arguing

That just about sums up the level of "debate" in this whole thread, I'm afraid.  ::)
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Offline werq34ac

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #64 on: October 09, 2012, 03:06:13 AM »
That just about sums up the level of "debate" in this whole thread, I'm afraid.  ::)

Haha, it's just that I write a lot. So when I counter a point, it seems that I'm am vehemently arguing against someone's point, when in reality, I might be agreeing with some things. Then they try to counter my whole argument. Then I counter their whole counterargument. Endless circle.
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Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #65 on: October 09, 2012, 03:45:22 AM »
Endless circle.

Indeed. What one might call an unedifying eddy.  ;D
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Offline fleetfingers

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #66 on: October 09, 2012, 08:00:51 AM »
What is "math-phobia"? Can you illustrate the characteristics to look for in a teacher to determine whether or not she is displaying this anxiety that is subconciously being transferred to female students only?

I was served last for lunch in my class every day in elementary school, because we were lined up tallest to shortest. I was always at the end! Believe it or not, we were separated into boys and girls for recess. There were two playgrounds, and it would rotate each week which one was the boys' and which was the girls'. It was strictly enforced. We could still chase each other in the field, but I knew that I was safe when I reached the playground.

About teacher expectations, I agree and understand that if a teacher is told that "Student A" is stupid, then she will treat them differently than if she was told otherwise. But, outside of studies, there are other factors going on. For example, a teacher will make judgments based on what they see. So, we are not only talking about prejudices, but also experience. After a few months into the school year, a teacher knows who scores well on tests and who doesn't. A teacher knows who the talkative kids are, she knows whose parents are involved and whose are not. Some kids are smarter than others. And some kids are better behaved. And some kids are more likeable. Good for them! If the teacher praises good behavior and hard work, then the other students will catch on and adjust.

I think it can be helpful to educate teachers on the studies done about biases, but we cannot expect that general observations won't be made. We cannot hope for the teacher to be completely neutral about each student, nor is that good for the classroom. I do believe that a good teacher will take the time to figure out why a student is falling behind or getting so many problems incorrect. Math is a cumulative subject, and if a student does not speak up when there is a misunderstanding, it will affect much of the material and testing that follows. Perhaps girls are less likely to ask for clarification?

There is also a problem with teaching to the dumbest kid in class. It slows everyone else down, and lowers expectations. Teaching to the smartest kid in class will raise expectations for all of the students, and it also suggests to them that the teacher has confidence in their abilities.

With ADD students and others, the parents really need to step up and be their child's advocate. They may need to help out at home. They may need to request another teacher. They may need to switch schools. Teachers really do have a lot on their plates with big classroom sizes, and with all of the ADD, autism-spectrum, diabetes, etc. students which are so common now, there are distractions that take away from their teaching which are not always fair or easy to deal with. They do their best, but in the end, parents need to be looking out for their child and making sure they are in a good situation. The students also need to take responsibility. They will need to conform to the structure of the classroom and apply themselves to what is being taught.

A lot of weird things being said in this thread, but I can agree with the underlying idea that people start to believe what others say about them and how others treat them. Teachers and parents and others should be aware and sensitive to this. But, we also teach people how to treat us - even children - so it goes both ways.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #67 on: October 09, 2012, 11:59:43 AM »
Quote
Perhaps girls are less likely to ask for clarification?
No, it's the opposite.  Boys are significantly less likely to ask for clarification.  Girls will voluntarily raise their hand to ask.  Boys tend to dawdle around and not ask because asking for help is signaling that they don't know something which they think will lower their status amongst their peers.

Quote
What is "math-phobia"? Can you illustrate the characteristics to look for in a teacher to determine whether or not she is displaying this anxiety that is subconciously being transferred to female students only?

The behavior is very subtle and not apparent to anyone who observes it. This can include ignoring questions, giving poor explanations, trying to explain something they don't understand, body language that conveys anxiety, turning the body away from the class to avoid questions, facial expressions that discourage questions, tone of voice changes, general lack of authority on the subject...
these are some of the behaviors expressed.  Note that they aren't purposefully transferring their fear; it's a symptom of their lack of understanding and skill in the subject that conveys it.

Because girls tend to be much more aware of body language and facial expression, as well as tone of voice, they tend to pick up on it.  Boys are generally oblivious to it unless it is very obvious.  This is probably why girls pick up a female teacher's anxiety about the subject and boys don't.

If it were a male teacher, he is likely to present a lesson in a more authoritative way.  Men are generally seen as more competent than women, even when a woman is actually more competent than the man.  If he isn't as competent in the subject, he is also likely to express the aforementioned behaviors.  Girls will pick it up.  Boys won't.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #68 on: October 09, 2012, 09:59:29 PM »
No, it's the opposite.  Boys are significantly less likely to ask for clarification.  Girls will voluntarily raise their hand to ask.  Boys tend to dawdle around and not ask because asking for help is signaling that they don't know something which they think will lower their status amongst their peers.



That's EXACTLY how it is for me in my calc class! 
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #69 on: October 09, 2012, 10:09:13 PM »
That's EXACTLY how it is for me in my calc class! 

This highly suggests that the teacher, if male, behaves in a way that is distant to the students; i.e. "I'm the teacher, you're the student" attitude.

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #70 on: October 09, 2012, 11:16:12 PM »
That's EXACTLY how it is for me in my calc class! 
this is more of what i saw

Offline Bob

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #71 on: October 09, 2012, 11:33:09 PM »
With a group, you have to teach to the middle, the majority.  The high and low ends get a little screwed.  There are less of them though so fewer complain.  Of course with music you just give them a harder piece and you've made the higher end happy, the middle is over-challenged, and the low end didn't have a clue what was going on anyway.  Ditto for easier music, except you can use more easier music.  Just get pickier and keep moving and no one mentions it.





Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline werq34ac

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #72 on: October 10, 2012, 07:16:39 PM »
This highly suggests that the teacher, if male, behaves in a way that is distant to the students; i.e. "I'm the teacher, you're the student" attitude.

Actually, the guys in our class don't ask questions because they don't pay attention and then they don't want to show that they don't pay attention.
Ravel Jeux D'eau
Brahms 118/2
Liszt Concerto 1
Rachmaninoff/Kreisler Liebesleid

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #73 on: October 17, 2012, 11:42:50 AM »
probably for the same reasons that they dont' see how rad this clock really is

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #74 on: October 17, 2012, 01:26:28 PM »
Actually, the guys in our class don't ask questions because they don't pay attention and then they don't want to show that they don't pay attention.

If this were the military, with clear hierarchy, they would be paying attention.  But since there isn't such a hierarchy in your class, attention isn't payed.

A demonstration of power is usually what's needed to spur males to fall in line.  For females, a demonstration of community works.  Few people know this and even fewer can do both.

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #75 on: October 17, 2012, 02:14:25 PM »
probably for the same reasons that they dont' see how rad this clock really is


That's awesome and I wish I had seen this before.  I'm actually working on building an analog clock that has a digital display for every number. At noon and midnight, the digital displays reset and read out a new formula that solves for the time.

EDIT: 5 o'clock is wrong, it should be sqrt(9)!, not sqrt(9!).
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline werq34ac

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #76 on: October 17, 2012, 08:00:26 PM »
If this were the military, with clear hierarchy, they would be paying attention.  But since there isn't such a hierarchy in your class, attention isn't payed.

A demonstration of power is usually what's needed to spur males to fall in line.  For females, a demonstration of community works.  Few people know this and even fewer can do both.

But most of us here aren't in the military.

How do you show power? Athletics? Smarts? Looks? A display of any of these things will decrease your popularity and standing rather than raise it. Because it makes you look ridiculous. The only time it won't make you look pretentious is if someone asks you to show it. Trying to outdo one another athletically to demonstrate power makes you look like an overcompetitive ***. Bragging that you got an A on a test makes you look like a pretentious ***. Talking about how attractive you are is social suicide. It's not a problem to look attractive, but if a guy tries to look attractive and it shows, then he gets laughed at.

Smarts, athleticism, looks, they're all worthless if you don't act human. The only way to earn respect is be human. Unless you are absolutely brilliant at something. Then people hate your guts (if you show off) but they will respect you nonetheless. But you have to be absolutely brilliant. In terms of athletics, you have to be nationally and possibly internationally recognized. In terms of intelligence, you have to be considered a genius. Otherwise you get a "why the hell is he so cocky, he isn't even that good"

This isn't the animal world. Guys don't have to be better at something to be respected. They just have to not be an *** or be unlikeable.
Ravel Jeux D'eau
Brahms 118/2
Liszt Concerto 1
Rachmaninoff/Kreisler Liebesleid

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #77 on: October 17, 2012, 08:57:52 PM »
A display of power in a math class can be expressed by highly effective instruction.  It should be clear as day.  Any questions are answered succinctly.  This takes care of the males.

After this clear instruction, offer help if anyone or any group would like it.  This takes care of the females by fostering a sense of community.

The display of power is not something done to dominate a group.  It is done for the benefit of the group by providing clear instruction which everyone understands.  Thus, power is displayed by how the teacher helps the class learn.  If this is accomplished, the teacher has what is known as authority and studetns will listen to and obey the authority.

An authority is not the same as an authority figure.  An authority is someone who achieves it on his/her own merits.  An authority figure is one who is classified as being authoritative due to association to a group, such as police officers or doctors (PhD, MD, etc.)

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #78 on: October 17, 2012, 09:20:59 PM »
i seldom feel the desire to, but if/when the need to display power arises. i wish to do it like this.


Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #79 on: October 17, 2012, 11:10:05 PM »
i seldom feel the desire to, but if/when the need to display power arises. i wish to do it like this.

I prefer to send a plague of frogs. You just can't beat the classics.  ;D
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #80 on: October 17, 2012, 11:14:51 PM »
I prefer to send a plague of frogs. You just can't beat the classics.  ;D
ha ha that is "old school!"

controlling the weather would be a good one too!


we have gone from math, to dragon ball z, to the plagues of egypt, to drafty rooms and girls in their undewear.

my report to the great one will be most interesting

Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #81 on: October 17, 2012, 11:43:40 PM »
my report to the great one will be most interesting


That frock makes you look taller.  ;D
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #82 on: October 17, 2012, 11:48:27 PM »
That frock makes you look taller.  ;D
well it was cheaper than buying this thing. though to be honest i'm probably pretty tall in some parts of Asia aleady

still kind of want it. having proportions that make me all leg and crotch would be so rad. i think i just earned a spot in the pervert out of context thread....oh drat!

Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #83 on: October 17, 2012, 11:59:24 PM »
i think i just earned a spot in the pervert out of context thread....oh drat!

Methinks you'd earn a spot in a "pervert in context" thread with that, too.  :P
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #84 on: October 18, 2012, 12:03:39 AM »
Methinks you'd earn a spot in a "pervert in context" thread with that, too.  :P
yeah i think you're right...

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #85 on: October 18, 2012, 08:36:59 PM »
i think this is awesome, if it's true. girl's probably just wouldn't care.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #86 on: October 18, 2012, 11:24:37 PM »
i think this is awesome, if it's true. girl's probably just wouldn't care.


Unfortunately, also embedded in it is ther name of every person you may think you love but really don't, infinite wrong ways and days for you to die, and an infinite number of incorrect answers to all the great questions of the universe.

It also contains all the numbers, together with the draw dates, of every lotto ever. And all the losing numbers.

Somewhere, it contains the instructions to tell which is which.

Elsewhere, it contains infinite lies about how to tell which is which.

Somewhere it explains how to tell.

Somewhere it fibs about that, too.

Yikes!
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ajspiano

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #87 on: October 18, 2012, 11:33:10 PM »
i think this is awesome, if it's true.

It would be true i suspect.. only those things.. (and others, like this sentence for example) would be in the minority among a VAST amount of nonsense.

Girls might care, it does make Pi kind of poetic.

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #88 on: October 19, 2012, 12:29:44 AM »
It would be true i suspect.. only those things.. (and others, like this sentence for example) would be in the minority among a VAST amount of nonsense.

Girls might care, it does make Pi kind of poetic.
yeah they might. part of being all paradoxical. they hate math but love the romantic notion of pi.

they don't neccessarily like to listen to music with 'explicit (i.e. sexual) lyrics' but will read the 50 shades of grey trilogy in a heart beat... ::) (some of them at least. there are cool chicks out there though)

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #89 on: October 19, 2012, 01:46:56 AM »
yeah they might. part of being all paradoxical. they hate math but love the romantic notion of pi.

they don't neccessarily like to listen to music with 'explicit (i.e. sexual) lyrics' but will read the 50 shades of grey trilogy in a heart beat... ::) (some of them at least. there are cool chicks out there though)

Generally speaking, a woman wants the experience of romance.  A man just wants to ejaculate.  That's why 9 1/2 weeks was so popular amongst women because it showed the experience of romance.  Most men are completely oblivious to this; they go in, do their business, and get out.  I've learned a lot about women from paying attention to what they watch and read.  I'm a better lover because of it.  If I didn't pay attention, I'd go in, do my business, and get out.  It takes longer, but it's an investment that provides a lot of interest. ;)

Offline outin

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #90 on: October 19, 2012, 03:44:32 AM »
I've learned a lot about women from paying attention to what they watch and read.  I'm a better lover because of it.  If I didn't pay attention, I'd go in, do my business, and get out.  It takes longer, but it's an investment that provides a lot of interest. ;)

Seriously, until now I actually thought you WERE a woman...  ??? ;D

Offline chopin2015

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #91 on: October 21, 2012, 02:16:10 AM »
i think this is awesome, if it's true. girl's probably just wouldn't care.


Come-on!!! >_<
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline outin

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #92 on: October 21, 2012, 06:19:14 AM »
i think this is awesome, if it's true. girl's probably just wouldn't care.


I thought it was 42  >:(

That would be much easier to remember...

Offline slane

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #93 on: October 24, 2012, 07:45:45 AM »
"Doesn't matter what the gender of the student is.  You never comment on appearance at all.  "I like your t-shirt."  Nope."

My husband makes that a general rule of life. He gets on with most people. Seems like good advice.
Although he's also tall and male which tends to make people defer to him anyway. :)

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #94 on: November 14, 2012, 03:23:12 PM »

Offline chopin2015

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #95 on: November 14, 2012, 06:24:48 PM »
"Beethoven wrote in three flats a lot. That's because he moved twice."

Offline faa2010

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #96 on: November 15, 2012, 10:35:50 PM »
That's only a sexist idea.  I have heard also about men who hate math.

It's like saying that men hate subjects like Art or Music.

I have loved Math since Junior High School, where I started to define which subjects were my favourite ones (The only ones I hated due to the teachers were Biology and Vocational Orientation).

Offline 49410enrique

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Re: Why do girls hate math?
«Reply #97 on: December 29, 2012, 02:46:24 PM »
i think becuase it was maths that 'outed' them.



well that and probably becuase they couldn't figure out why this was wrong