Piano Forum



Rhapsody in Blue – A Piece of American History at 100!
The centennial celebration of George Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue has taken place with a bang and noise around the world. The renowned work of American classical music has become synonymous with the jazz age in America over the past century. Piano Street provides a quick overview of the acclaimed composition, including recommended performances and additional resources for reading and listening from global media outlets and radio. Read more >>

Topic: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis  (Read 26125 times)

Offline evitaevita

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
on: October 09, 2012, 06:31:05 PM
I'm currently working on the harmonic analysis of Chopin Etude Op.10 No.1.
What do you think about bars 27-31?
What are the chords there?
"I'm a free person; I feel terribly free. They could put me in chains and I still would be free because my thoughts would be mine - and that's all I want to have."
Arthur Rubinstein

Offline perfect_pitch

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8496
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 12:10:14 AM
Bar 27: G 7 sus4
Bar 28: G7
Bar 29: C7
Bar 30: C min dom 7
Bar 31: F7

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 10:47:28 PM
Bar 30: C min dom 7

this is probably a little confusing..

Firstly, do you mean "dom" as in dominant or is it a typo of dim for diminished..?  either way I'm confused.

If C is the root, I read it as Cm7 b5, or C half diminished.

If however, the Gb is the root - then it would be Gb6 #4

....Either way, I perceive it as a kind of altered tri-tone substitution on the preceding C7 chord, as a chromatic passing chord to the F7, just as the next one is a chromatic pass to the Bb..   

overall they form the logical progression in 4ths -  G7, C7, F7, Bb7..

Offline perfect_pitch

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8496
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 02:21:58 PM
If C is the root, I read it as Cm7 b5, or C half diminished.

Yeah... I only spent about 7 seconds looking at it, and thought that the other term for a half-diminished dom 7th was a C min dom 7... Obviously I was wrong.

Is there technically another name for a half-diminished dominant 7th?

Offline nyiregyhazi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4267
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 07:20:32 PM
Yeah... I only spent about 7 seconds looking at it, and thought that the other term for a half-diminished dom 7th was a C min dom 7... Obviously I was wrong.

Is there technically another name for a half-diminished dominant 7th?

The tristan chord. Or a minor chord with a major 6th.

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 08:55:54 PM
The tristan chord. Or a minor chord with a major 6th.

The notes in question, as in the étude and half dim chords are C Eb Gb Bb

Where is the major 6th?

Offline nyiregyhazi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4267
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 11:27:07 PM
The notes in question, as in the étude and half dim chords are C Eb Gb Bb

Where is the major 6th?

For that one it could also be analysed as e flat minor, with the c being the added major sixth.

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 11:34:37 PM
For that one it could also be analysed as e flat minor, with the c being the added major sixth.

Oh right, different root. Thanks for clarifying.

Offline schartmanovich

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 03:01:41 AM
Why do you care about chord qualities without analyzing their function? Is the chord a tonic, predominant, or dominant in relation to the governing tonality, and is it part of a longer prolongational, sequential, or cadential progression? Those are the important questions to answer.

Offline dcstudio

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2421
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 01:30:06 PM




....Either way, I perceive it as a kind of altered tri-tone substitution on the preceding C7 chord, as a chromatic passing chord to the F7, just as the next one is a chromatic pass to the Bb..   

overall they form the logical progression in 4ths -  G7, C7, F7, Bb7..



did they start teaching tri-tone sub in classical theory?  lol  that's cool.  or have you just taken jazz theory as well?  I took both at the same time.  Amazing how much easier it is ..for me, anyway ...to think as the jazzers do.  Somehow I think Chopin would've liked it, too.

I agree--passing chord--tri-tone sub--Neopolitan 6...whatever.

Offline ajspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3392
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 10:57:33 PM
did they start teaching tri-tone sub in classical theory?  lol  that's cool.  or have you just taken jazz theory as well?

I've done both. I agree its easier to think in jazz. Significantly easier...  I actually found classical theory to be a monumental waste of time, then jazz theory made music theory worth while. That's probably a reflection of the teaching/learning/maturity context though, not the material.

Offline dcstudio

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2421
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 12:24:13 AM
I've done both. I agree its easier to think in jazz. Significantly easier...  I actually found classical theory to be a monumental waste of time, then jazz theory made music theory worth while. That's probably a reflection of the teaching/learning/maturity context though, not the material.

I just hated listening to the stuffy theory majors debating form and analysis--lol.   Jazz theory is just far more applicable...or usable I should say...regardless of the genre. 

Offline seyles

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 1
Re: Chopin Etude Harmonic Analysis
Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 07:10:24 AM
Bar 27 -  G7 added 4th
Bar 28 - G7
Bar 29 - C7
Bar 30 - Eb minor, first inversion, with added 6th
Bar 31 - Diminished 7th chord resolving to following chord Ab minor (first inversion) in bar 32

visit www.sherelleeyles.com for analysis of piano scores, Click on AMEB
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert