Looking to buy a steinway D made in Hamburg. Where do I start?

[noambenhamou]

hello.
I want to buy a steinway D from Hamburg. I don't want the NY model and I don't want to start a debate on NY vs Hamburg hahaha

My first question is: does hamburg steinway D's have a C&A program?

I know that when the NY factory once in a great while actually makes a decent D, they mark it as a C&A piano and don't sell it to the general public. 5 years later, you can buy a retired C&A NY D.

Is that also the case with the Hamburg pianos?

Do I need to look for that "gem" in the hamburg D's or are they pretty much all good?

I was thinking about the following year to price range:
2009 $125k
2007 $120k
2005 $115k
2003 $110k


Is that realistic? I went to try out a hamburg 2006 today in LA asking around 150k. Was a nice piano, but I suspect too much mark up?

I don't want to get hosed! I am looking for a fair price without too much mark up, but have no idea when I get ripped off or getting a good deal.

Not looking to "steal" the piano, just a fair price. That if I had to turn around and sell, I wouldn't loose a ton of money.

Thanks

[49410enrique]

for a purchase of this magnitude, you would be well served to seek out a highly respected and reputable paid consultant.

i'd also post this over at piano world, there's some knowledgeable folks over there too, but yeah you should take 'free advice' with a grain of salt or two and consider the fee for solid advice from a quality for pay private and impartial party as part of the investment in the instrument.

i love hamburg D's as well (most of the time much more than and more frequently than the american counterparts-mostly, some exceptions of course).

good luck,

you should also consider buying in EU and bringing it in, i played a recital on a magnificent hamp d that the piano department traveled to london to buy and then ship/import it back even with the added expense of travel my understanding is that they saved significantly over trying to buy one domestically.

[hbofinger]

Talk to Ricrad De La Rosa at Pro Piano in New York. I cannot give you a better recommendation! He supplies people like Barenboim and Zimmerman;, and before Steinway started making the Hamburgs availabe inthe US, was THE pointperson on Hamburgs in the US. He has C&As, too

[pbryld]

for a purchase of this magnitude, you would be well served to seek out a highly respected and reputable paid consultant.

i'd also post this over at piano world, there's some knowledgeable folks over there too, but yeah you should take 'free advice' with a grain of salt or two and consider the fee for solid advice from a quality for pay private and impartial party as part of the investment in the instrument.

i love hamburg D's as well (most of the time much more than and more frequently than the american counterparts-mostly, some exceptions of course).

good luck,

you should also consider buying in EU and bringing it in, i played a recital on a magnificent hamp d that the piano department traveled to london to buy and then ship/import it back even with the added expense of travel my understanding is that they saved significantly over trying to buy one domestically.

Are Hamburg D's more expensive than NYs? The retail price for a D, or any other Steinway, is certainly (much) higher in the EU.

[49410enrique]

Are Hamburg D's more expensive than NYs? The retail price for a D, or any other Steinway, is certainly (much) higher in the EU.

i dont know about msrp to msrp but my gut tells me yes piano for piano the germans are more expensive than the americans

i was referring mainly to what i feel might be a bit of a premium markup above the standard german vs american, i think a nice hampburg in the states is going to command more than the same piano in the eu (this would have to be confirmed, i.e why i suggested the op hire a consultant), even after the transportation charges for importing it state side, i think if you found  a real bargain over there you could save considerably (but i am not aware of how the current economic circumstances over there impact thigs, my experience is from what i heard from folks that did this and it was probably the late 80's early 90's when they did that).

[withindale]

Here's an estimate of 2000 € for shipment. Might be a bit on the low side. Worth exploring what's available in Germany at that level.

[pbryld]

i dont know about msrp to msrp but my gut tells me yes piano for piano the germans are more expensive than the americans

i was referring mainly to what i feel might be a bit of a premium markup above the standard german vs american, i think a nice hampburg in the states is going to command more than the same piano in the eu (this would have to be confirmed, i.e why i suggested the op hire a consultant), even after the transportation charges for importing it state side, i think if you found  a real bargain over there you could save considerably (but i am not aware of how the current economic circumstances over there impact thigs, my experience is from what i heard from folks that did this and it was probably the late 80's early 90's when they did that).

With the current exchange rate, a new D would cost $175,000 here in Denmark. 5 years ago it would have been more than $200,000, when the dollar was really low. However, in the 80's, I believe the dollar was worth much more, perhaps making it cheaper in Europe. This is not the case any more though..

[hbofinger]

Some clarification on the topic:

1. Hamburg Steinways, though by design the same as New York, are indeed very different animals.
2. They are MUCH more expensive than New York.
3. Pretty much every classical recording you hear made in recent years outside the US is going to feature a Hamburg Steinway.
4. It is pretty much a consensus that this is the "best" piano in the world, if there is such a thing.
5. You will notice, if you listen carefully, that these are indeed brighter instruments than what the American household taste would dictate. This is one major, major gripe I have with the run-of-the-mill New York output: Many of them are duds in the upper treble, and simply can't sing.
6. I priced shipping a B from Europe to the East Coast (Washington, D.C) about 7 years ago, and got a Euro 3,000 quote.

You can go to Hamburg and arrange a factory visit and chose your own piano. I have a good friend (concert pianist who trained with Wilhelm Kempff) in Hamburg who is a professor at the Musikhochschule (Germany's Juilliard) who has a good relationship with the factory. Contact me on the private messages if you wish to go this route.

In the U.S. THE supplier has been Pro Piano. Ricard (the owner) was referred to me by Larry Fine personally. Ricard rents all over the U.S., and keeps a steady stock of Bs and Ds. He has both a Manhattan location and a Los Angeles location. I once visited his New York warehouse. Full of Hamburgs! (I ended up buying the sole Bösendorfer he had).  He WILL sell his rentals. I found him to be very reasonable indeed. When I was in his warehouse, Zimmerman's piano was there, as well as Barenboim's, if I remember correctly. His web site is https://www.propiano.com/. This, I would suggest, would be the best route to go if you don't want to travel.

I currently have a Yamaha C7, but when I am ready to upgrade I will go the Hamburg factory route (I am German and go overseas on a regular basis).

Good Luck!

[richard black]

FWIW, I have always got the impression that very few people pay the 'list' price for high-end pianos.