With music? Or from Memory?

[gregory4249]

I just saw this article in the NYT about performers starting to use the music/score rather than playing from memory.  I found it interesting and am not sure how I feel about it.
What do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/arts/music/memorizations-loosening-hold-on-concert-tradition.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0

[49410enrique]

i almost always perform from memory becuase as the article states, old notions, it is expected and required of me for my student performances.

i have on occassion given 'less formal' ones with score (a provision made to some but never allowed in the same program or on any thing labled and 'formal' for recital or masterclass).

i feel like i have done well under both circumstances. i really don't care, i prefer from memory especially with longer works as it's just a bother to etiher turn pages yourself (which does not always end well) or a hassle to find a good page turner (a bad one can mess you up as well).

i think it's cool. the fact that the author seems to state people had an actual problem with this is silly (silly people that have issues not the author for pointing it out).

i say do whatever you want and need to do to give your best musical performance.

[austinarg]

For the most demanding piano music, performing by memory becomes a necessity. At excruciating speeds, reading the score while playing is a near impossible task.

[iansinclair]

In some ways it is a style thing -- and most people expect to see solo musicians perform without a score.  Haven't a clue as to why.  Organists customarily perform with a score, but perhaps that is partly because we (I was one for years)/they are usually stuck away somewhere where the audience can't see them (and I must admit that not having to memorise registration changes does help...)!  Conductors seem to go both ways...

Austinarg does have a very strong point: for the most demanding music, performing from memory is what you do, at least most of the time.  This is true even for organists -- if one has practiced the music to performance level, you've pretty well memorised it anyway.

49410 has some good points too.  And there is nothing like a faulty page turn to create havoc...

[andreslr6]

Playing with the sheet music is a big distraction for me.

After reading the article:

If I play from memory itīs because I already learned a piece well enough, because I already applied every resource I have to learn a piece, Iīve studied the score well enough, made an analysis, etc. so well that I naturally memorize it, sometimes it takes 1 week, sometimes 1 day, sometimes half an hour, but never have I felt itīs like some kind of "tradition", for me itīs part of preparation and quality.

Unless thereīs a special case, I believe a case where someone couldnīt memorize a piece it was most probably just because of being lazy rather than a "problem" with memory. NOTE! that by this I donīt mean itīs wrong to play with sheet music, you can know a piece from memory and STILL prefer to play with sheet music. Itīs just the memorization part, I believe it has to do a whole lot more with work rather than with personal difficulties.

Take for example other instruments apart from the piano, they usually play with sheet music because they usually play in a orchestra which always play with sheet music, itīs not about a problem with memory, itīs just that theyīre used to play reading. Or accompanying pianists, they start reading and reading and reading all filled with wholes and vices and mistakes, and then when they want to memorize a piece they canīt because of lack of work and lazyness.

Itīs just like when people say itīs "bad" or "tirany" when you practice more than 4 hours a day, yeah right, I want to see them try learning a whole recital program that includes a Scriabin sonata and or a Prokofiev concerto by practicing just 4 hours a day.... it really depends, but I can bet everyone that most of the cases are just them being lazy and not depending on their skills/difficulties. Pianists like GG or Horowitz or Argerich can say that they don't practice at all, but if you read their bios youīll notice they say that because during their student years they practiced AT LEAST 10 hours a day.

End of rant.

But anyways, if it really isn't a matter of lazyness, then I don't see the problem with playing with sheet music, but for me it is a distraction.

[drexo]

I always perform from memory. If I have to read the sheet music too I can't fully focus on my playing and emotion I want to bring along with my performance.

[iansinclair]

...

Take for example other instruments apart from the piano, they usually play with sheet music because they usually play in a orchestra which always play with sheet music, itīs not about a problem with memory, itīs just that theyīre used to play reading. Or accompanying pianists, they start reading and reading and reading all filled with wholes and vices and mistakes, and then when they want to memorize a piece they canīt because of lack of work and lazyness.

...

Oh dear.  About orchestral musicians -- generally that is true.  However, I beg to differ when it comes to accompanists.  While it may be true that some accompanists might be accused of lack of work or lazyness, this is most emphatically not true of good and great accompanists.  Most of the really worthwhile music which is written in a solo/accompanist format (such as leider, but also a great many instrumental works for a solo instrument or a small chamber group and piano) the "accompanist" is, or should be, an equal partner in the performance.  It is a very different art from the solo pianist, or the pianist in an orchestral concerto for piano and orchestra, but it is every bit as demanding, if not more so.  And an accompanist who does not put in a great deal of effort and thought won't last long near the top, if he or she ever gets there at all.

If you don't beiieve me, try it sometime...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I can't imagine why you would use the score in a performance unless if it's for security reasons.

[49410enrique]

I can't imagine why you would use the score in a performance unless if it's for security reasons.

you're right those hard cover scores make awesome shields!

[andreslr6]

Oh dear.  About orchestral musicians -- generally that is true.  However, I beg to differ when it comes to accompanists.  While it may be true that some accompanists might be accused of lack of work or lazyness, this is most emphatically not true of good and great accompanists.  Most of the really worthwhile music which is written in a solo/accompanist format (such as leider, but also a great many instrumental works for a solo instrument or a small chamber group and piano) the "accompanist" is, or should be, an equal partner in the performance.  It is a very different art from the solo pianist, or the pianist in an orchestral concerto for piano and orchestra, but it is every bit as demanding, if not more so.  And an accompanist who does not put in a great deal of effort and thought won't last long near the top, if he or she ever gets there at all.

If you don't beiieve me, try it sometime...

I believe you and agree with you, sorry I did sound like I was overgeneralizing, I do know about great accompanists, I know a few in my school, but they're a minority, my comment was directed to the other majority, some who even drop out their studies and start "working" as accompanists because it's "easier" but they end up doing mediocre jobs. Some who even start lowering their level in piano because they're "too busy" with the chamber music and accompanying classes.

Probably I should have emphasized that I didn't meant Professional accompanists, but rather the ones that pretend being accompanists.

[j_menz]

you're right those hard cover scores make awesome shields!

Perhaps you should throw in a few more crowd pleasers, then you can get by with soft covers.

[49410enrique]

Perhaps you should throw in a few more crowd pleasers, ...

[benzwm02]

Both are very important.

[muleski]

I'm returning to piano after many years of not playing.  I've never done a music exam but am learning complex pieces.  I have to memorise it as my sight reading skills are utterly pathetic.  Once it's in my head though, it stays. 

[slobone]

Don't know about professionals, but if I ever play at another recital, I am definitely using a score. Never again will I go through the agony of worrying about whether I might have a memory lapse in the middle of a piece. That's very easy to do even with a piece you know well -- I've been at concerts where that happened and it was hideous for everybody.

[brendan765]

I just saw this article in the NYT about performers starting to use the music/score rather than playing from memory.  I found it interesting and am not sure how I feel about it.
What do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/arts/music/memorizations-loosening-hold-on-concert-tradition.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0

FROM MEMORY!!! You never perform from a book,...Idc if you're the best sight reader in the world that's so terrible to do.

[j_menz]

FROM MEMORY!!! You never perform from a book,...Idc if you're the best sight reader in the world that's so terrible to do.

But why is it so terrible for pianists but perfectly normal and acceptable for chamber and orchestral musicians?

[iansinclair]

But why is it so terrible for pianists but perfectly normal and acceptable for chamber and orchestral musicians?

Tradition!  It's all tradition.  I might add organists to your list of folks who play with the score.

I might also reiterate that, in fact, even those of us who play with the score for some or all of our pieces are actually playing to a great extent from memory -- the argument that if you are playing from a score you are sightreading is ... um ... Use as nice word, Ian: false.  True, you might be -- and I've had to do that more than once (e.g. It's Tuesday.  Joe Smith just died, the funeral is Thursday and the family wants some piece you've never heard of, never mind played.  You're sightreading...) -- but in general if you've practiced the piece enough to be able to perform it, you're not sightreading any more.

[werq34ac]

Usually, if I can't play without the score, I haven't practiced the piece enough anyway. As for chamber musicians, I'm sure they at the very least know the music.

[teran]

From memory. I like to think there's a reason it's also called playing by heart. :3

[j_menz]

From memory. I like to think there's a reason it's also called playing by heart. :3

That someone failed elementary anatomy? 

[outin]

Tradition!  It's all tradition. 

And traditions can (and often should) be subject to change.
I so wish I could play properly with the score it would save me so much time in learning the pieces...

[p2u_]

I so wish I could play properly with the score it would save me so much time in learning the pieces...

There is a spiritual meaning to the toil it takes to have access to the pleasure of music making. It takes sacrifice either way (by heart or from the score), otherwise music would be nothing more than pearls before swine...

Paul

[outin]

There is a spiritual meaning to the toil it takes to have access to the pleasure of music making. It takes sacrifice either way (by heart or from the score), otherwise music would be nothing more than pearls before swine...

I just can't see it that way...as someone who has problems with both sequental memory and visual perception it just feels like an unnecessarily hard task, when the music itself should be the main focus

[p2u_]

@ outin:

You've said it yourself:

the music itself should be the main focus

This does not mean that you should solve all problems simultaneously and at the instrument. If you know your weak spots, then you will find out what to do to get around them. Use your strong points. There must be something to start from, right? I'd suggest listening a lot to fragments you want to learn, concentrate on improving your image of keyboard structures, hand and finger posititions, mental practice and such.

Paul

[outin]

@ outin:

You've said it yourself:

This does not mean that you should solve all problems simultaneously and at the instrument. If you know your weak spots, then you will find out what to do to get around them. Use your strong points. There must be something to start from, right? I'd suggest listening a lot to fragments you want to learn, concentrate on improving your image of keyboard structures, hand and finger posititions, mental practice and such.

[begin rant]
I guess I do use my strong points and that's why I do learn, just not as fast and well as I would like... I get the music very quickly into my head and have no problem with rhythm. I can read notation (understand what it means), just not accurately and fast enough to sight play. So I don't have trouble understanding what to play if I can take my time and don't have to worry about misreading notes. I am also getting much better in the physical technique after getting rid of much of the tension. I never had much trouble in playing without watching my hands. And the harder the piece the more persistent I am about learning it. When I have a specific problem to solve I have no trouble working on it for hours...

But it's just almost impossible to try to play directly from notation (even the most simple things like grade 1 sight reading exercises) and it takes an eternity to memorize simple movements, fingerings and note sequences. My short term memory seems to work fine, but to get things solid seems to be almost impossible. It's like I'm starting all over time and time again. Trying to memorize from the score without the piano I cannot do at all, I get a headache when I try.

And even after I do memorize to some level, I fail to concentrate enough and just forget what I am doing...So in a way I am a pretty hopeless case   [end rant]

But I do appreciate you trying to help

[hfmadopter]

49410 has some good points too.  And there is nothing like a faulty page turn to create havoc...

That's for sure, been there done that ! Page turners need to practice as well.

[mr_drm]

Every time I've seen a recording (video) of Pinchas Zukerman playing he has the music in front of him. It is really distracting.

[teran]

That someone failed elementary anatomy? 

Oh this game again? :/

[doudly]

Maybe it is become I am a slow learner, but by the time I master a passage or a whole piece well enough to play it in public, I know it on the tips of my fingers anyway, so I never even think about sheet music.

[ruvidoetostinato]

I think playing by memory enables us to be more musically involved in the music and allows our mind to focus on other aspects than reading.  Lets me be more engaged in the music if it's memorized.  Unless of course the memory is sloppy, then it could have the opposite effect.

I guess it's similar to walking while looking at the floor, you have security in seeing that what you're walking on, however you will not be able to see any surrounding and might be even lost.  If you're walking with your chin up, you'll be able to experience the full view of everything.  And you'll also know where you're going and are able to plan ahead because your attention is not focused on the floor.

Hm, that's confusing.

Maybe it is become I am a slow learner, but by the time I master a passage or a whole piece well enough to play it in public, I know it on the tips of my fingers anyway, so I never even think about sheet music.

Nice.  Memorization is supposed to be part of the learning process anyways so if one learns the piece, it should have been already memorized anyways.

[49410enrique]

i will add to my original thoughts (or lack of), that though i don't really think it matters all that much for performance, i think generally you should memorize when learning the work, i think it helps a ton with having an overall idea of piece as a cohesive whole and you can really focus on the fine details and dedicate all your attention to listening to yourself at the instrument when you play. then on the performance, if the score helps you with cues, nerves, general memory gaps, then again i really don't think it's a big deal, whatever you prefer. i mean you're the one on stage and playing, if the audience or someone has a problem with that, they can close their eyes and pretent the score is not there or they can learn the music themselves and performing it from memory if it makes them feel better.