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We're all a bunch of losers. (Read 9275 times)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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We're all a bunch of losers.
« on: January 13, 2013, 03:08:45 AM »
I don't like posting the link of the article alone I decided to freaking post the whole freaking thing about this!  But ANYWAYS...  I think this is kinda cool.  We're all a bunch of freaking losers!!!

A new study shows that teens who take part in extracurricular arts' activities, such as music, drama and painting, are more likely to report feeling depressed or sad. This holds true even for artsy teens who also play sports. However, jocks who participate exclusively in sports are the least likely high-schoolers to report depressive symptoms, the researchers said.

"This is not to say that depression is a necessary condition for either a teen or an adult to become an artist, nor are we showing that participating in the arts leads to mental illness," study researcher Laura N. Young of Boston College explained in a statement. "However, previous research has revealed higher rates of mental illness symptoms in adult artists. We were interested in whether this association is present earlier in development."

Young and her colleagues looked at the rate of depressive symptoms and extracurricular activities among American teens, drawing on data from a longitudinal survey of 2,482 students ages 15 to 16 who were monitored from 2002 to 2010.

As part of the survey, the students indicated how often they participated in "lessons in music, art or drama, or practice of music, singing, drama, drawing/painting," and "sports lessons, playing sports or practicing any physical activity" after school, with answers ranging from "often" to "almost never." The teens also were asked how often they experienced poor appetite, restless sleep, difficulty concentrating, sadness and lack of motivation, among other problems associated with depression. (Past research has found teens who reported trouble sleeping at ages 12 to 14 were more than twice as likely to have suicidal thoughts at 15 to 17 years old than restful teens.)

Compared with boys, teen girls were more likely to partake in after-school arts' activities and to report depressive symptoms, the researchers found. Regardless of gender, students drawn to the arts had higher rates of depressed feelings than their peers who weren't picking up paintbrushes after school.

The research builds on studies that show a link between creativity and symptoms of mental illness, which the team speculates could arise from certain cognitive traits shared by people who are drawn to the arts. For example, this group might absorb an excessive amount of stimuli from their environment, which could lead to general distress and depression, but also greater creativity and artistic expression, the researchers said.

"Further research can address the question of whether potential psychological vulnerabilities can be transformed into strengths through the practice of the arts," Young added.

http://www.livescience.com/24930-teens-arts-depression.html
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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 03:14:16 AM »
We are also more intelligent.  Intelligence carries the burden of seeing the world clearly.  We're afraid for the human race and it depresses us.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 03:42:41 AM »
I reckon that is a very mindless statistic to say that those that study arts are more depressed. Depression effects a HUGE amount of people and almost EVERYONE will experience depression at one point in their life. Many psychologists who do not have a real clinical job like to research weird statistics which almost always have a huge amount of error and/or takes a very small sample space.

Researching teenagers and young adults who anyway have a huge amount of psychological challenges anyway is a very silly thing to do. The survey is self reported which also leaves a large amount of error. This whole thing is just tongue in cheek.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 03:48:51 AM »
This whole thing is just tongue in cheek.

Never heard of that one.
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 04:14:20 AM »
Never heard of that one.
Yeah, I love idioms ;)
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Offline ted

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 04:33:41 AM »
These statistical surveys are in the paper just about every day now. Mustn't eat eggs, should eat eggs, mustn't drink coffee, ought to drink coffee, drinkers this and that, teetotallers the other. New survey finds who can curl their tongues and wiggle their ears. I ignore the lot. For a start there are too many contradictions from "experts".

However, anything which tells people they are "losers", or otherwise deficient human beings should be rejected out of hand.
"We're all bums when the wagon comes." - Waller

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 04:35:01 AM »


However, anything which tells people they are "losers", or otherwise deficient human beings should be rejected out of hand.


I said that to get your attention and because it was relevant.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 05:21:39 AM »
previous research has revealed higher rates of mental illness symptoms in adult artists.

It's not participating in art activities itself that leads to depression; it's
1) trying to persue a career in the arts and/or
2) trying to meet the established requirements of accomplishment in a forced way
that may easily lead to mental illness.

I don't think I have to explain that statement?

Paul
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Offline j_menz

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 12:12:21 AM »
I don't read the article as suggesting that we are a bunch of losers but rather that we are more likely to be depressive; at least in our teenage years.

I'd read the data as suggesting that we are simply more in touch with and more honest about our feelings than average at that age. Self reporting of mental health related matters is notoriously difficult to quality control.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 12:43:20 AM »
I'd read the data as suggesting that we are simply more in touch with and more honest about our feelings than average at that age. Self reporting of mental health related matters is notoriously difficult to quality control.

Yep, subjective quantifiers aren't usually all that helpful.  Beyond that there is a different outward as well as self image of the two categories, especially in high school.  I'm pretty sure most of us realize that there are certain stereotypes that are assumed by everyone, regardless if they're true *cough* sex *cough*. The only thing I would probably consider reasonable is the sleep aspect, but as long as they quantified hours slept.

Oh, and some of those are incredibly surprising.  Girls are more depressed than guys?  I personally have never heard a girl say "I'm fat".
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Offline ajspiano

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 01:00:31 AM »
Oh, and some of those are incredibly surprising.  Girls are more depressed than guys?  I personally have never heard a girl say "I'm fat".

I suspect thats because even quite early on in life girls can easily determine that boys wont want to hear a skinny girl whine about her non-existent weight.. nor will an overweight one want to draw attention to it.

Offline lelle

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #11 on: January 14, 2013, 01:21:00 AM »
I didn't know being depressed made you a loser? ::) What is a loser, anyway?

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #12 on: January 14, 2013, 04:28:42 AM »
I suspect thats because even quite early on in life girls can easily determine that boys wont want to hear a skinny girl whine about her non-existent weight.. nor will an overweight one want to draw attention to it.

I was being sarcastic. I think I might just design a sarcasm font.  Girls think they are fat because popular media depicts healthy women as overweight, and I've heard girls of all ages say this throughout my life.  Some I laugh at, some I give weight loss tips and healthy eating suggestions, and some...[Sr] I take advantage of because they are insecure.[/Sr]
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline j_menz

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"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #14 on: January 14, 2013, 05:01:09 AM »
The world is ahead of you:
http://sartalics.com/

Damn... That's what I've been pushing for ages.


I demand rights to edit the site:

UNTIL PLATFORMS ADOPT SARTALICS HERE'S

THE SARTALICS CSS CODE FOR YOUR SITE.

style="-webkit-transform: skew(20deg);
-moz-transform: skew(20deg);
-ms-transform: skew(20deg);
-o-transform: skew(20deg);
transform: skew(20deg);"

Because it uses CSS, it works with any font. Even Comic Sans.

Unfortunately, because it uses webkit, it can only be in a
<div> and has to be its own paragraph. We're working on it.
I've been trying to give myself a healthy reminder: http://internetsarcasm.com/

Offline ajspiano

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 05:12:04 AM »
I was being sarcastic. I think I might just design a sarcasm font.  Girls think they are fat because popular media depicts healthy women as overweight, and I've heard girls of all ages say this throughout my life.  Some I laugh at, some I give weight loss tips and healthy eating suggestions, and some...[Sr] I take advantage of because they are insecure.[/Sr]

My bad.

I've may also have been guilty of telling a few skinny girls to eat more lettuce once or twice.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 02:32:24 AM »
You know, categories of people with strong social ties have low suicide rates, and more individualistic categories of people have higher suicide rates.  So this actually makes sense.

So, I don't think we can go about calling this complete bullshit yet.


I got this from my sociology textbook.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #17 on: January 15, 2013, 03:47:38 AM »
You know, categories of people with strong social ties have low suicide rates, and more individualistic categories of people have higher suicide rates.  So this actually makes sense.

Depression and suicide are different problems altogether, and depression does not automatically lead to suicide. Besides, the "conclusions" from the "statistics" psychologists so eagerly present on these matters are too often based on mere low-quality guesswork. How about this one? While women typically seem to suffer more from depression than men (more than twice as often), men commit suicide more often (about four times as often).

Paul
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #18 on: January 15, 2013, 04:09:20 AM »
Depression and suicide are different problems altogether, and depression does not automatically lead to suicide. Besides, the "conclusions" from the "statistics" psychologists so eagerly present on these matters are too often based on mere low-quality guesswork. How about this one? While women typically seem to suffer more from depression than men (more than twice as often), men commit suicide more often (about four times as often).

Paul

Depression doesn't automatically mean suicide, but suicide almost always means depression.

I was just thinking about that second one you mentioned, which was also in my textbook.

BUT...

Women ATTEMPT to commit suicide more often than men do.  That just means that we're good at it.
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Offline lloyd_cdb

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #19 on: January 15, 2013, 04:42:20 AM »
Sexes view things differently.  I have no idea if this is even accurate, but given that suicide attempts do actually garner attention, there could be a psychological difference between male and female perception of suicide.  Males might just truly want to kill themselves, whereas females might do it to garner attention. 

That was completely hypothetical and I really have no means to accurately interpret any of it, it was just the first explanation that popped into my head.  It's also entirely possible there really isn't any interpretation.  There are plenty of simply strange correlations in nature that aren't actually related.  Attempting to explain causality is more for discussion sake than actually attempting to be reactionary.

BTW, the article reminded me of one of my college professors in statistics.  First day of class:

"The number of deaths per fire alarm has a strong positive correlation to how many firemen respond to the alarm.  We should stop sending firemen to fires."  6 years later, we still send each other emails about funny interpretations of statistics. 

I'd also like, just once, for an article to link to an actual study instead of linking to another article that says the same thing.  Maybe even just cite the study or at least what journal it was in.  I'd love to look at the study and compare it to media interpretations.  I think it would be hilarious.
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Offline p2u_

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #20 on: January 15, 2013, 04:47:03 AM »
Depression doesn't automatically mean suicide, but suicide almost always means depression.
[...]
Women ATTEMPT to commit suicide more often than men do.  That just means that we're good at it.

I very much doubt your last conclusion. The decisive factor is the development of unbearable anxiety in the depressed person. If that is not recognized by the outside world, then the act of violence against the self will most likely be successful. Men are not expected to show their real feelings. Stupid role play and "societal" conditioning. That's basically why they are "better at it".

Paul
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Online ahinton

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #21 on: January 15, 2013, 12:07:09 PM »
Depression doesn't automatically mean suicide, but suicide almost always means depression.
That's very probably true.

Women ATTEMPT to commit suicide more often than men do.  That just means that we're good at it.
Do you have any reliable statistics from internationally recognised bona fide scientific surveys from various parts of the world with which to corroborate this assertion? - and, if so, does it apply universally or is it different in some cultures and countries than it is in others?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #22 on: January 15, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »
I very much doubt your last conclusion. The decisive factor is the development of unbearable anxiety in the depressed person. If that is not recognized by the outside world, then the act of violence against the self will most likely be successful. Men are not expected to show their real feelings. Stupid role play and "societal" conditioning. That's basically why they are "better at it".

Paul

That women attempt it more, or that men are better at it?
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: We're all a bunch of losers.
«Reply #23 on: January 15, 2013, 12:57:18 PM »
That's very probably true.
Do you have any reliable statistics from internationally recognised bona fide scientific surveys from various parts of the world with which to corroborate this assertion? - and, if so, does it apply universally or is it different in some cultures and countries than it is in others?


This was also in my soc text book.  I don't have the name of it on me now, but I will tell you.

And it's probably in America, I have to check.

EDIT:

John H Macionis

EDIT:  it turns out that the depression statistic may be up for debate because men are typically raised to not share their emotions, so women are more likely to report their depression than men.
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