What is the deepest thing you feel in music?

[joshman1088]

EDIT: Please move to appropriate category if this is mis-posted. I wasn't sure where to post. 

Hi!
I'm new here, so hello.

Though I have been around plenty of musicians, I have never heard anyone else particularly understand me when I talk about my musical experience. I am wondering how many other people out there feel what I feel. Or, if you don't feel exactly what I do, what is it that you do feel?

I would truly appreciate your time in reading this and responding thoughtfully, because it has sort of weighed on me for years and I would love to know who else is like me. I feel alone, and if you don't understand I would simply love it if you might listen. I have never written this out before nor told it to anyone so completely. Sorry for typos... it's late.

My story:
I am 19. Around 7 my mom coerced me to start piano with a bribe. It worked. I wasn't hooked, but I kept playing. In the world of true talent, I was alright.

My first teacher actively held me back. My second teacher was only moderately talented and didn't really push me. Nor did I push myself. And yet I slowly found myself progressing in a strange way. As most pianists eventually notice, I began to feel things - vague, undefined emotions. And so I began to tinker with composing. And then I began tinkering more. I don't recall the time frame nor much of the progression, but I had soon scribbled in the ballpark of 150 pages worth of music (about 90% unfinished) by age 14ish. It was bad because I was not trained well nor had I pushed myself, but I soon reached a definite point. A very strange point.
I felt strange things. I want to share some of them with you, as best as words will allow, and see if you can relate.

As I would be tinkering around, I would eventually stop hearing the notes. Not literally, mind you, but it became more. I would start seeing things. Places. Visions. But even more, it would be as though I felt the entirety of some certain story in a brief moment. For instance, from the day a boy meets a girl, from dates, to the first kiss, to full love, to their death, or breakup, and the agony, tears, regret, pain and happiness that followed. It was like every emotion of a life long story was condensed and felt within minutes.

It was like I felt the drum of the ages pounding inside me. The drum of time, which sounded first years ago and is now beating swifter and swifter as time is careening to some certain last beat. Like your frantic last thoughts as you see your last silver thread let loose from it’s spool (death). Like the scream of the first train whistle as it bridges the gap into the west, bringing with it the beginning of the end. An urgency as though you’re standing beneath a breaking dam.

I saw (forgive me for waxing poetic) the agony of a faceless man wandering, wandering, surrounded yet alone, led by his pathless feet. Was he forsaken, or alone from the start? He trods on as a mist without form, forgotten as if already gone.
Such bliss, such urgency, such pain, such a depth of all emotion.

In words, these sound like things anyone could feel (maybe), but it was like I literally found another world. The emotion and vision was similar to what you (or I atleast) feel in a dream. Everything is so dreamy, hazy, mysterious, yet appealing and intriguing that it rocks your world when you wake.

Forgive me, but the only thing I can compare it too is narnia.
In my more potent dreams, as well as with music, I would suddenly find myself somewhere that didn't exist the the real world, like narnia. Just like with dreams, everything was there, the people, the emotion, the sights and sound, but it felt clearer, or perhaps more vague. But it felt like I belonged there.  It felt like I was home, or that I could just see the light from the window from far away. Just like in narnia where they finally get to the end and see that narnia is the real world and their eyes are opened so to speak, that's vaguely what I feel. Like there was a tingling on my conscious that there is more to life than what we see, and that there is something more waiting for us, and I am allowed just a glimpse of this place.

It also feels similar to the book, The Giver. Where the main character finally leaves the fake world and finds reality. Like when he sees color for the first time in the apple. He sees the same thing, yes, but it has become more. Or like when he starts feeling the pain and pleasure of all past existence and it is thrilling yet exhausting.

That like what music becomes for me. It's like I'm shown another world that can't be seen anywhere else. And it's impossible for me to describe truly with words.

I feel other things too, but that is the most strange, because it's not properly a feeling so much as it is be being taken somewhere very real. I like it, but I don't, if you understand me. It feels right like I have finally come home, but so strange and isolating.

I feel many other things too, but only wish to convey one more.
There are brief times when I hear something play with me. It's almost like ... a heavenly sound.
It's like I hear sound as it was meant to be. It's as though the physical air around us can only make sound sound so good, and  that earthly sound is just a taste of something greater. And every now and then I hear it. It's impossible to describe. Is it just my brain doing something weird? Are my ears picking the sound up in a way they normally dont? I don't know. But I hear something different. Similar to the experience described above where I am taken somewhere different, this time I hear something different. Something greater. It’s like the music shows me that everything in life is only eluding to something greater.

Both experiences slowly pointed me to the fact life is great, but is only a type, or a lesser model of something else. Certainly not an illusion, mind you, but more like a miniature of true object, or like a plastic re-creation of a glass ornament.

I vaguely entertained the idea that I was shown a glimpse of what heaven might be like. I have heard brief stories of others saying the same thing, but I am not about to say that is a definite opinion of mine. Only a theory trying to make sense of something strange.

So the conclusion of the story is that around 14-15 years old I began experiencing something profound, confusing, and isolating in music. Not only that, but it sort of began to haunt me. I would hear music all the time, epic, mysterious, beautiful symphonies in my head, and I couldn't write them out for others.

This "other world," as well as the music constantly in my head, became too much and I officially gave up music, with little intention to ever return.

However, three weeks ago I met a girl. Though she is mediocre in terms of talent, it seemed like she felt music deeply (though not the same) as well.

I told here how I felt music so deeply that I had chosen to block it out for years. Now, I hear and feel nothing other than the notes. It's so dry. It was like she almost cried when she said I was like the movie Polar Express, where they ring the bells but only hear a dull clink. I had lost my inner child or something. I only heard an echo. That struck me.

Somehow, she prompted me to return to music. At this point, I am finishing learning the two songs I quit on previously (The revolutionary etude, and ballade in g minor opus 23 by chopin), and am beginning to slowly hear the music again.

Tonight, I have caught a brief glimpse of this other world of deeper emotion which I blocked out for so long. If I am about to enter back into it, I want to share it with you. I want others to know, and want to know if others know of this place too.
It's agonizing feeling these things alone.

I know others certainly feel things in general, but is this profound emotion and vision of something greater what everyone feels in music? Is this completely new to you? Have others experienced this world  elsewhere? For instance, I certainly find this world in dreams, but occasionally I will find it in fine food, an epic smell, or the most killer sunset. It's like the world becomes something else.

Thoughts?

Thanks so much for listening to me ramble.

 It feels better just getting it out. Music plagued me for so long that I gave up. Now, I'm back and not sure what I will find, but I don't want to experience it alone. I am working at notation so that I can get some of the scores in my head out for others to hear hopefully.

Cheers.

[ted]

Briefly, yes, of course I experience all the things you mention in all sorts of places and all sorts of times. What you are describing is mystical experience, which has been the deepest force in creative minds for as long as people have created anything. Hundreds of great minds have practically made it their reason for existence. Aldous Huxley, in particular, comes to mind, specifically in works such as Heaven and Hell, The Doors of Perception.

No, everybody certainly does not experience it, however many do but don't talk about it lest they be thought potty. It isn't potty at all, it's very healthy, and if you have already had it you cannot lose it, don't worry about that. It takes about a week to recover it, in my experience, after a prolonged period of forced mundane rationality, no longer. And if your main driver is music, then "the other place" will be its principal source of ideas. You are not strange at all, and it puzzles me why you should imagine you have a problem. Just cultivate it and enjoy it, that's what I do.

And read the thoughts of other minds about it, both the socially acceptable ones like Huxley, Blake, Dunne, Priestley - and rank outsiders like Arthur Machen and Aleister Crowley. They're all talking about much the same thing it seems to me.

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm new here, so hello.

Hello
You may also want to post an introduction of yourself on this thread: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=122.0

Though I have been around plenty of musicians, I have never heard anyone else particularly understand me when I talk about my musical experience.

Sometimes the best people to talk "art" with is not the people who study the same instrument as yourself. I have had wonderful discussions with painters, dancers, singers etc etc exponents that are not from piano. The similarities of art is amazing and difficult to understand perspectives can be more easily unraveled when you cross through the artistic territories..

I am wondering how many other people out there feel what I feel. Or, if you don't feel exactly what I do, what is it that you do feel?

There are literally infinite variations of the "feeling" people get through their relationship with music. I find many of us like to play masterpieces rather than create them ourselves though and many more like to simply listen than create the sound themselves. I find each of the three (playing, composing, listening) are no lesser than the other, without one the rest would not exist.

I am 19. Around 7 my mom coerced me to start piano with a bribe. It worked. I wasn't hooked, but I kept playing. In the world of true talent, I was alright.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the world of true talent". I firmly believe that talent is overrated, hard work and discipline trumps talent easily.

... I slowly found myself progressing in a strange way. As most pianists eventually notice, I began to feel things - vague, undefined emotions.

The nature of music is that it can express emotions which might not effectively be expressed in words. i find this experience is not isolated in playing, listening or composing, nor does its strength vary for any of the three.

And so I began to tinker with composing.

I am sure that composing is not the only outlet for you to develop to experience the emotions.

....I had soon scribbled in the ballpark of 150 pages worth of music (about 90% unfinished) by age 14ish. It was bad because I was not trained well nor had I pushed myself,

Of course how much you wrote is irrelevant but the quality of what you wrote is important. But it is good that you started to write no matter what level, it is a starting point and from there you can develop and improve. You wrote music away from the piano?

As I would be tinkering around, I would eventually stop hearing the notes. Not literally, mind you, but it became more.

I don't understand what you mean by "stop hearing the notes" if you are seeing visions while you play then it is the experience of the sound that must cause it. If the imagery takes over the sound then you are no longer hearing the sound then the image will vanish. I see stories in almost all pieces that I play, the story usually reflects the emotion that the composers are trying to produce but not always. Sometimes I see a story line in my minds eye which is not what the composer intended, but this is a good thing.

It was like I felt the drum of the ages pounding inside me. The drum of time, which sounded first years ago and is now beating swifter and swifter as time is careening to some certain last beat. Like your frantic last thoughts as you see your last silver thread let loose from it’s spool (death). Like the scream of the first train whistle as it bridges the gap into the west, bringing with it the beginning of the end. An urgency as though you’re standing beneath a breaking dam.

This is too vague for me to understand. What is "drum of the ages" and what do you mean but it's beating "swifter as time is careening to some certain last beat"?
The word "urgency" made it somewhat more understandable, do you feel compelled to compose? That is quite a normal reaction that many professional musicians have. Where you cannot be away from the music, it haunts you if you try to leave it, it constantly occupies your thoughts, it harasses you, you feel an itch from within to be with it and if you don't scratch that itch it drives you crazy. Yeah, this is a normal reaction I have found.

In words, these sound like things anyone could feel (maybe), but it was like I literally found another world. The emotion and vision was similar to what you (or I atleast) feel in a dream. Everything is so dreamy, hazy, mysterious, yet appealing and intriguing that it rocks your world when you wake.

Music is like a dream state, but when you compose or play you need to be in control. When you listen you can let yourself go, but when we play or compose we need to order our thoughts, we need to have good judgement, we need to put in a lot of work.

That like what music becomes for me. It's like I'm shown another world that can't be seen anywhere else. And it's impossible for me to describe truly with words.

Music for many people allows them to be removed from the real world for a moment. It allows us to experience emotions just by ourselves and music. It can be seen elsewhere, you see it in the face of a new born baby, you see it in the nature around us, you see it in art, there are so many places in this magical world we live in where we can experience dumbfounding emotions. For you it might be strongest in music, but be open to see it in other things in this world (or out of it).

So the conclusion of the story is that around 14-15 years old I began experiencing something profound, confusing, and isolating in music. Not only that, but it sort of began to haunt me. I would hear music all the time, epic, mysterious, beautiful symphonies in my head, and I couldn't write them out for others.

But you tried to write them out didn't you the 150 pages or so? Sometimes what we hear in our head and when we put it to paper in reality, it is not as good as we imagined. Some people say it is because they can't get it out on paper, but the reality is that it can sound a lot better in our head. If you are hearing other instrument of an orchestra you should be able to break up the sound in your head and hear individual instruments sounding through just the piano.

This "other world," as well as the music constantly in my head, became too much and I officially gave up music, with little intention to ever return.

This is a HUUUUGE contradiction to what people normally do and to me is very strange and peculiar.

[maczip]

Strictly music dependent strange or weird feelings might point to musicogenic epileptic disorder or synethesias. Of cause this cannot be truely stated, I just recommend beeing seen by a neurologist to rule out such conditions.

[joshman1088]

Ted,
I'm glad to hear you understand. I wish I could get inside you and see just how similar the experience is. Nonetheless, I havn't had much of a chance to look up the names you mentioned, but am glad to hear others are out there. I've heard of mystics before, but only in terms of specific and direct encounters with god. I will look them
 up.

Less to the point, I spoke with the music director at my university today and he mentioned Tchaikovsky. I found his diary/letters on google and have enjoyed reading them. He seemed to experience many of the same things. I had previously imagined there to be composers in history who felt the same, but had not found nor heard of any specifically till now. It's quite refreshing.

It's nice to know I'm not strange. I don't remember calling it a problem, but it was atleast problematic because I eventually had a hard time turning it off..... and that makes life hard.
I'm hoping I have more control and balance this time around. I imagine I will.

Lostinidlewonder,
I actually just started taking an aesthetics class in school and am hearing about many other artists experiencing similar things. I will have to try talking to people from other disciplines.

As far as urgency is concerned, that was merely one of the many emotions I was trying to convey that I felt through the music, not a compulsion to compose (though I felt that too). Urgency more strongly than others. I mention time specifically because there have been times that I almost felt connected to time itself, like I understood that it is growing closer to the end or something. Weird, I know. It was one of the many things that I felt I was shown.. somehow.

I hate talking about such spiritual and mystical experiences because I know that many such things can only be figments of imagination. It can be hard to distinguish between that and an actual objective experience, if such a distinction exists.

I won't respond to everything. I agree with alot of what you said.

Both you and ted seemed shocked that I gave up music as if that was odd. I would respectfully say you probably don't understand what I experienced then. It wasn't negative, but very intensely draining on my emotions and confusing to me. I am wondering what happens this time around because I am very much a different person now. I already notice many differences in my playing. Im waiting to see.

Cheers.

[lostinidlewonder]

Both you and ted seemed shocked that I gave up music as if that was odd.

It IS odd. You say thoughout that it was like in another world, you could experience emotions, and a whole list of poetic analogies etc etc, you said A LOT of positive things in your initial post about the experience. Now you say it was confusing, draining. It seems like you are not sure whether it was good or bad yourself.

[hfmadopter]

It IS odd. You say thoughout that it was like in another world, you could experience emotions, and a whole list of poetic analogies etc etc, you said A LOT of positive things in your initial post about the experience. Now you say it was confusing, draining. It seems like you are not sure whether it was good or bad yourself.

At 14 I can see what he experienced as being positive but also emotionally draining and confusing, since he obviously was experiencing something not everyone his age does . At 14 I could see myself having experienced  something great but yet so different from everyone else that I'd wonder if I wasn't a freak or something else odd and maybe push that away.  That's a tough age. Now at 19 he will be able to handle it better, I suspect, and he is now in an environment with other people who can help him along. He will only grow from here, again, I suspect.

Think of the great composers and performers who put music aside for a part of their lives, had nervous breakdowns even but then came back to their music. Music never leaves us who love to work with music, we may take a break but as my teacher told me once years ago, those who have it in them naturally will always come back to music. If you look at a persons lifetime, five years is not all that long a time to have been away from his music and how far away was he really anyway ? We don't know, he probably doesn't know.. He is just starting to blossom.

Artists in general can appear to average folks to be ruining their lives over their art. The so called staving artists etc. They ( some) get so deep into their art they forget to make a living for themselves. In fact sometimes it's the last thing on their minds. Or think of a great recital you might perform, all that study and preparing and then the let down after, as great as it was to do and to feel so on top, it's draining though. Now put that feeling on a 14 year old daily.

[lostinidlewonder]

At 14 I can see what he experienced as being positive but also emotionally draining and confusing, since he obviously was experiencing something not everyone his age does.

Everyone develops in life in a different way I guess, but to say such positive things (almost all of the initial post) then to destroy it with a very short paragraph saying it was all abandoned, to me this seems very very unusual and abnormal. I do not see how these issues could be mentally draining but rather empowering (and much of the opening post suggested this). There may be other issues in life which caused him to give up music rather than the experience itself, it seems to me a little far fetched that you have such a surreal experience with music then throw your hands up saying its too emotionally draining. Peculiar to say the least.

Think of the great composers and performers who put music aside for a part of their lives, had nervous breakdowns even but then came back to their music.

All of these cases that I know about already were professional musicians before they had a break. This is because of the "performance" and "standards" pressure that can become overwhelming for a musical career (especially if they have a lot of other pressures in life). I just cannot see how an amateur can be effected so adversely when the music needs nothing from them but their attention. They have no bills to pay with the music, they have no performances to meet, there is no pressure for their participation with music.

Music never leaves us who love to work with music, we may take a break but as my teacher told me once years ago, those who have it in them naturally will always come back to music.

I agree, I took the path to have a career as an engineer but the "pull" music had was unbearable. Some of us are just destined to do music because it provides a certain "need" in our life and we function a lot better in life with it.

Artists in general can appear to average folks to be ruining their lives over their art. The so called staving artists etc. They ( some) get so deep into their art they forget to make a living for themselves. In fact sometimes it's the last thing on their minds. Or think of a great recital you might perform, all that study and preparing and then the let down after, as great as it was to do and to feel so on top, it's draining though. Now put that feeling on a 14 year old daily.

I couldn't imagine thinking about all the duties of being a musician when I was younger because I didn't know about it. I think that these emotional experiences however need to be experienced for its intensity to be understood. You cannot just think about it because you will generally create an exaggeration of the reality. When I started doing things professional musicians did (organise concerts, teach music, perform, network with musicians, run a busines etc) I was excited about the challenges I was faced with. No matter what you do in life no matter what job you choose, you will be faced with difficulties and challenges, so there is no escaping it. You struggle to succeed you struggle to fail.

[jogoeshome]

The deepest thing I ever felt was on the day I got sacked from one of my jobs, like 3 years ago. I got home feeling absolutely awful, going through everything with my boss in my head. Sobbing.... a misery. I felt I couldn't sleep and was really nervous. so I turned on the radio (something I never do) and there was this concert at Carnegie Hall, dont know what, extremely well played and interpreted, a dream. I cannot describe what emotion I felt, I laid on my bed and it was like my head went into the twilight  zone, into a dimension above the real world, and when it was finish I went to brush my teeth, looked at my face in the bathroom mirror and I had this happy, light, dreamy look on my face.

I slept like a baby.

Sorry I didn't read your question completely, it was too long. But I do feel that sometimes music takes me into a different state of consciousness, something higher and more powerful than anything real. With exception probably from the sea.