Correct execution of trills (Bach P&F no 13, Book 1)

[lukediv]

[img][img]Hi guys,

In need of some guidance when it comes to this topic. Bit of a back story first, currently studying for Amus in Australia and have chosen this prelude and fugue. I have learnt it to a reasonable level (my exam is not until the end of the year) but in my most recent lesson my teacher said i am executing the trills wrong (even though we decided together that they should be done this way/has heard it for about 2 months) and as a result it is throwing the piece out of time.

I have attached my copy of the prelude and fugue which is Henle's urtext, and which at the front it stipulates that trills (trillos, marked by a kind of horizontal zig zag line) should be played from the upper note (which i am doing) however my teacher suddenly says that the ones marked as trills with a tr. (followed by a squiggly line) not by a mordent-esque symbol should be played from the lower note. My teacher says he is unsure and doesn't want to lead me in the wrong path so i am pitching this question to the forum.

1. Should all the trills (whether marked by the zig zag thing or the tr. thing) be played from the upper note (this is what i am doing)
2. is the incorrect execution causing me to go out of time?

I have attached the picture and highlighted the trills in question with a red circle. I have also linked a rough recording of me doing the prelude and fugue so you guys/girls can tell me whether I'm going out of time in the bars where the trills are.

Any guidance on this would be much appreciated.

Luke

[j_menz]

Starting from the upper note is fin. Your problem is that you are rushing them, panicking if you like.  Baroque trills are slower and generally a simple 2/3/4 division of the basic semiquaver.  Experiment, but keep that divisibility in mind. In the course of a single trill you can go from 1/2 to 1/3 to 1/4 and back again, but initially start practicing with the 1/2. Then move on.  It's not like a later trill - it subdivides the pulse - it's not  just going as fast as you can from a particular point.

[lukediv]

thanks for your reply

so basically, slow down the trills a fair bit, an make them CLEARLY fit into the time signature?

cheers,

Luke

[dagny_taggart]

I would like to learn more about Baroque/Bach ornamentation. I know CPE wrote a keyboard book. Is that the first one I should begin reading if I wish to study the ornamentation?

[outin]

I would like to learn more about Baroque/Bach ornamentation. I know CPE wrote a keyboard book. Is that the first one I should begin reading if I wish to study the ornamentation?

There is a section on ornaments in Rosalyn Turecks book on Bach performance, which I think was linked here recently. Can't find the thread now though...

[iansinclair]

Starting from the upper note is fin. Your problem is that you are rushing them, panicking if you like.  Baroque trills are slower and generally a simple 2/3/4 division of the basic semiquaver.  Experiment, but keep that divisibility in mind. In the course of a single trill you can go from 1/2 to 1/3 to 1/4 and back again, but initially start practicing with the 1/2. Then move on.  It's not like a later trill - it subdivides the pulse - it's not  just going as fast as you can from a particular point.

Absolutely.  Which means, among other things, that the trill must be on the pulse, not just sort of on the pulse!  And they do always start from the upper note, unless there is a clearly marked mordent (there will be, if it was meant) indicating to start on the note below, in which case the sequence would be note below, note, note above, note, note above, etc.

For Dagny -- there is an excellent short section on the execution of mordents and trills in the preface to the any of the Albert Schweitzer editions of J. S. Bach's organ music.  Assuming that you can find the books, which are, I think, out of print.

[lukediv]

thanks heaps for your replies