Faster IS better, I can attest to the fact...

[mosis]

So we've all read about Chang's advice on getting a passage blazing 30% or so past performance speed, and Bernhard's preaching on making a passage easier for you to play as being the goal of practice.

How many of you think this is a sack of sh*t?

How many of you have actually tried it?

Well, if you haven't, go do it.

Today, I was practising Rachmaninoff's C#- Prelude 3/2. Using various practice methods, I was able to get the agitato section blazing so incredibly quickly that I couldn't believe my fingers. I mean, this speed laid Chopin's etudes to waste. I gradually slowed down to the speed required for this prelude, and I found that it felt like I was CRAWLING along. My fingers naturally wanted to go faster. Mind you, all this time, I'm playing all this absolutely perfect; not a flub in sight. I actually had to get used to playing so slowly, because it was SO EASY.

I didn't bother with this before, either. I deeply regret it. But hey, you learn from your mistakes, and hope you don't make the same ones again. Now the goal of my practice is to get the passage as easy for me as possible; so far, the only ways I know how to do this are to play in different rhythms and to play much faster. I find that the different rhythms contribute to increase in speed anyway, though.

I didn't apply this to the slow chordal beginning section, because I can play that without a problem as it is. The real trouble there lies in the musicality; making the notes whisper, playing the chords perfectly even, and bringing out the one note on the pinky. Speed practice won't help me any here.

Anyway, I just want to be a witness to the superior effectiveness of practising this way. Don't doubt it until you try it. Check it out, you'll be surprised with the results!

[jbmajor]

So we've all read about Chang's advice on getting a passage blazing 30% or so past performance speed, and Bernhard's preaching on making a passage easier for you to play as being the goal of practice.

How many of you think this is a sack of ***?

How many of you have actually tried it?

Well, if you haven't, go do it.

Today, I was practising Rachmaninoff's C#- Prelude 3/2. Using various practice methods, I was able to get the agitato section blazing so incredibly quickly that I couldn't believe my fingers. I mean, this speed laid Chopin's etudes to waste. I gradually slowed down to the speed required for this prelude, and I found that it felt like I was CRAWLING along. My fingers naturally wanted to go faster. Mind you, all this time, I'm playing all this absolutely perfect; not a flub in sight. I actually had to get used to playing so slowly, because it was SO EASY.

I didn't bother with this before, either. I deeply regret it. But hey, you learn from your mistakes, and hope you don't make the same ones again. Now the goal of my practice is to get the passage as easy for me as possible; so far, the only ways I know how to do this are to play in different rhythms and to play much faster. I find that the different rhythms contribute to increase in speed anyway, though.

I didn't apply this to the slow chordal beginning section, because I can play that without a problem as it is. The real trouble there lies in the musicality; making the notes whisper, playing the chords perfectly even, and bringing out the one note on the pinky. Speed practice won't help me any here.

Anyway, I just want to be a witness to the superior effectiveness of practising this way. Don't doubt it until you try it. Check it out, you'll be surprised with the results!

I read this and see only benefits of practicing this way; so long as you're able to play it well at the correct speed.

[Tash]

So we've all read about Chang's advice on getting a passage blazing 30% or so past performance speed, and Bernhard's preaching on making a passage easier for you to play as being the goal of practice.

How many of you think this is a sack of ***?

How many of you have actually tried it?

Well, if you haven't, go do it.

Today, I was practising Rachmaninoff's C#- Prelude 3/2. Using various practice methods, I was able to get the agitato section blazing so incredibly quickly that I couldn't believe my fingers. I mean, this speed laid Chopin's etudes to waste. I gradually slowed down to the speed required for this prelude, and I found that it felt like I was CRAWLING along. My fingers naturally wanted to go faster. Mind you, all this time, I'm playing all this absolutely perfect; not a flub in sight. I actually had to get used to playing so slowly, because it was SO EASY.

I didn't bother with this before, either. I deeply regret it. But hey, you learn from your mistakes, and hope you don't make the same ones again. Now the goal of my practice is to get the passage as easy for me as possible; so far, the only ways I know how to do this are to play in different rhythms and to play much faster. I find that the different rhythms contribute to increase in speed anyway, though.

I didn't apply this to the slow chordal beginning section, because I can play that without a problem as it is. The real trouble there lies in the musicality; making the notes whisper, playing the chords perfectly even, and bringing out the one note on the pinky. Speed practice won't help me any here.

Anyway, I just want to be a witness to the superior effectiveness of practising this way. Don't doubt it until you try it. Check it out, you'll be surprised with the results!

I read this and see only benefits of practicing this way; so long as you're able to play it well at the correct speed.

um yeah, i don't think the agitato section is meant to be blazingly fast. like sure it's faster than the beginning and end parts but it's not meant to be prestissimo or anything

[Daniel_piano]

So we've all read about Chang's advice on getting a passage blazing 30% or so past performance speed, and Bernhard's preaching on making a passage easier for you to play as being the goal of practice.

How many of you think this is a sack of ***?

How many of you have actually tried it?

Well, if you haven't, go do it.

Today, I was practising Rachmaninoff's C#- Prelude 3/2. Using various practice methods, I was able to get the agitato section blazing so incredibly quickly that I couldn't believe my fingers. I mean, this speed laid Chopin's etudes to waste. I gradually slowed down to the speed required for this prelude, and I found that it felt like I was CRAWLING along. My fingers naturally wanted to go faster. Mind you, all this time, I'm playing all this absolutely perfect; not a flub in sight. I actually had to get used to playing so slowly, because it was SO EASY.

Can you please explain better what do you mean?
I've never understand this practicing faster advice
It's not so easy as choosing between fast or slow speed practice
The point is that while you may be able to practice slow, you might not be able to practice fast
You cannot do what you cannot do
You can play slowly a piece you've never seen before but you can't play it fast without a slow practice preparation
It's like running
You need to run slowly to train your legs to run faster
If you begin to run fast without a slow speed training your legs would get stiff and achy in a matter of seconds
So, it would be of great help for all of us if you can explain how are you able to play as fast as you want without slow practice first and without your fingers get stiff and block within few seconds

Thanks
Daniel

[mound]

Can you please explain better what do you mean?
I've never understand this practicing faster advice

Definitely read Chang's book Fundamentals of Piano Pracitice as well as a myrid of posts by Bernhard throghout these forums to understand what this is about.

In the smallest nutshell, it goes like this. You play fast first (faster than end speed) to determine the motions that will be required to play it at speed, and then you practice exactly those motions in slow motion. You don't play slowly and gradually try to build up to speed as you could very well be using motions that won't work at speed, and therefore you hit a "speed wall" that is hard to undo. But how can you play fast before you know the piece? (a logical question to be sure) - by choosing a small enough chunk that you can master it quickly. Then you slow down.  I won't try to explain it any further, because Chang's book is there for that


-Paul

[mosis]

um yeah, i don't think the agitato section is meant to be blazingly fast. like sure it's faster than the beginning and end parts but it's not meant to be prestissimo or anything

I didn't say I would perform it at the speed I was practising. I was simply practising faster so that the final speed would feel easy for me.

[Daniel_piano]

Can you please explain better what do you mean?
I've never understand this practicing faster advice

Definitely read Chang's book Fundamentals of Piano Pracitice as well as a myrid of posts by Bernhard throghout these forums to understand what this is about.

I've already read them
And actually, I might be wrong, but it seems to me that Bernhard methods and principles are quite different from Chang's ones

In the smallest nutshell, it goes like this. You play fast first (faster than end speed) to determine the motions that will be required to play it at speed, and then you practice exactly those motions in slow motion.
[/quote+

Okay, and here's the problem
Only rarely I might be able to play faster than end speed first
Let's say for example I've a piece that begin with an arpeggio
It makes sense to begin playing those arpeggio faster than end speed so that I can then slow it down
But while my hand is able to play those arpeggio at 50% end speed it not absolutely able to play it faster than final speed
And I'm talking here about hald bar !!

It's not that I can't understand the principle of playing faster, it's just that I'm physically imcapable of doing it without a slow practice preparation
I'm not guessing here, it's a fact, my hand can't do it

Any thought ?

Daniel