Is it too late to start practicing more seriously now?

[sv3nno]

Hi.
First of all, sorry for my bad english.
i'm a 15 year old boy, and i've been practicing the piano for 10 years, but never seriously. i mean, i'm good, but still more like mediocre. i can't play any of those more difficult pieces of classical music...
I have always practiced like 1-1.5 hours a day, not everyday. It might be that i'm not motivated to play classical music, but i know i have to do it because it's best for learning the tehniques and stuff.
I'm really jealous at other people my age who do Much better than me, for example, here's a video of one of the guys i know from my school playing beethoven's Moonlight sonata 3rd movement when he was my age(!!).

i tried playing that piece once. and let's just say - i never tried it again and didn't go near the piano for the next few days -.-
But playing the piano is very important for me, and i will begin to practice much more than i have before, but do you think it's already too late...?
And also, could you reccomend me some excercises/studies i could practice daily?
thank you.

[ranniks]

You have been playing for 10 bloody years dude. Don't worry, you're young enough to become a concert pianist, anyone at any age is. If someone at 90 starts and is a bloody next beethoven and everyone likes his music, damn sure he'll get booked.

The reason you don't see many older people as concert pianists (I mean the late starters) is because they don't dedicate themselves enough.

You can do it, just don't worry. Practise every single day and you'll become great.

I'm 20 and just started back in august. So only 5-6 months of playing under my belt.

[outin]

Hi.
First of all, sorry for my bad english.
i'm a 15 year old boy, and i've been practicing the piano for 10 years, but never seriously. i mean, i'm good, but still more like mediocre. i can't play any of those more difficult pieces of classical music...
I have always practiced like 1-1.5 hours a day, not everyday. It might be that i'm not motivated to play classical music, but i know i have to do it because it's best for learning the tehniques and stuff.
I'm really jealous at other people my age who do Much better than me, for example, here's a video of one of the guys i know from my school playing beethoven's Moonlight sonata 3rd movement when he was my age(!!).

i tried playing that piece once. and let's just say - i never tried it again and didn't go near the piano for the next few days -.-
But playing the piano is very important for me, and i will begin to practice much more than i have before, but do you think it's already too late...?
And also, could you reccomend me some excercises/studies i could practice daily?
thank you.

You're already 15!! Too late!  

Sorry, but seriously you have 10 years of playing behind you at that age so you have nothing to worry about except finding the right way and motivation to practice. I quit piano at 11 partly because I was no good compared to some others of my age (or at least I thought so) and did not have the guts to apply to a new music school when we moved. I went for another instrument simply because it was easy to get in. Probably was a mistake considering how far I have got now 30 years later in just 18 months with a good teacher and how much I now enjoy practicing.

So lesson nr 1: Do not compare yourself to others.

Lesson nr 2: You need to get inner motivation to practice, find music that you really like, sheets that make you want to solve the puzzle of making those notes into music. If you only think about classical music as a must to learn technique, it's hard to stay motivated. Maybe you should either try to find classical that you really enjoy but is not too difficult or look into something else. Many people seem to enjoy movie or game music, jazz, blues, ragtime or more modern composers. Those can still be technically challenging.

[lojay]

I think that's quite good playing.

You said you tried playing that once?  Most likely, he didn't learn to play that piece that well overnight; he has probably spent countless hours practicing it.

But playing the piano is very important for me, and i will begin to practice much more than i have before, but do you think it's already too late...?

Late for what?

If you want to be a 14 year old child virtuoso and you're 15; I'd say it's too late.

If you want to learn the Beethoven by tomorrow, it's not too late although it is probably unlikely.

If you want to practice 10+ hours everyday from now on; I would say you can definitely accomplish this if you're dedicated enough.

Whatever it may or may not be too late for, you should at least try!

So lesson nr 1: Do not compare yourself to others.

Personally, I strongly disagree with this comment in this post's context.

Being able to compare yourself to and compete with others is a hugely beneficial tool.  Here's one story why I think so:

Several years ago when I studied for my SATs, I took a small group class.  I scored 1250ish on a diagnostic test, while one of my friends who also took the class scored about a 1500.  Just being aware of this difference made me and my other friends study much harder.  We were lucky that our teacher was able to manipulate the small group dynamic and make a game out of memorizing vocab, solving problems, and scoring higher.

Of the 7 people who took the class, 5 of us scored above 1500, 1 scored 1490, and 1 person scored in the 1200s (this was a random student who didn't really know any of us and merely showed up to class).  I attribute the high scores to a group of friends trying to one up each other.  If we weren't constantly comparing ourselves to and competing with each other, I think only 1 of us would have scored 1500+.

Also, note that I took group classes for SAT II Bio and SAT II Writing with my friends.  Most of us scored 750+.  I took private tutoring for SAT II Math IIC and only scored 690 (Math was my strongest subject by far).

This brings me to my next point about complacency.  For me, the worst character trait is complacency.  If you're constantly aware how other people play and strive to play as good or "better" than them, you'll never develop complacency.  The only exception is when you actually play "better" than those people.  I was thinking of writing another story but I don't want this to be a TLDR.

If you're curious why I use quotation marks around better, I'm only going to say subjectivity.

Anyway, since you realize he's much better than you at his age, the most important thing you have to realize is that there are things you can do to improve yourself to hopefully be better than him.  My advice, however, is why compare yourself to him?  There are many great pianists to compare to...  Just keep in mind that getting to a high level of anything will probably take a lot of time and dedication.

[keypeg]

One component that isn't looked at enough and should be, is HOW any student has been taught by the current teacher - especially over 10 years.  Has the teacher given the tools, which include technique, approach to practising, approach to a piece, understanding of music and other things.  Too many simply go through the grades and focus on increasingly hard pieces.

[j_menz]

This brings me to my next point about complacency.  For me, the worst character trait is complacency.  If you're constantly aware how other people play and strive to play as good or "better" than them, you'll never develop complacency.  The only exception is when you actually play "better" than those people. 

Hardly the worst character trait - you really do need to get out more.

If you need something to compare yourself to to keep you motivated, or humbled, try making pieces sound like they should, perfectly.  That is a much higher standard, and the only one worth pursuing.

[lojay]

Hardly the worst character trait - you really do need to get out more.

Yeah, lol!

try making pieces sound like they should, perfectly.  That is a much higher standard, and the only one worth pursuing.

What's perfection (in terms of performing music)?

Are you suggesting that there is a perfect way to play a piece that the OP should strive to achieve?

If you were to ask Zimerman, Ashkenazy, and Sokolov how a certain piece should sound, will they give you the same answer?

I would guess certain points may be similar, but there will still be some differences in what they think the ideal interpretation of the piece should be.

Anyway, assuming there is a perfect way to play a piece, how will a student come to the realize this perfection?

[j_menz]

What's perfection (in terms of performing music)?

Are you suggesting that there is a perfect way to play a piece that the OP should strive to achieve?

If you were to ask Zimerman, Ashkenazy, and Sokolov how a certain piece should sound, will they give you the same answer?

I would guess certain points may be similar, but there will still be some differences in what they think the ideal interpretation of the piece should be.

Anyway, assuming there is a perfect way to play a piece, how will a student come to the realize this perfection?

I'm not suggesting an objective standard of perfection. Individual pianists will have their own ideas of what there is in a piece and what they want to do with it. Some similarities, definately, but also differences.  That is why comparing oneself to  someone else will always be a fraught exercise. If you have your own idea, then it will be different from that other persons.  It is your ability to give full voice to that idea, your idea, though, that is your measure of perfection.

Of course, everyone else will judge you on the quality of your idea relative to others; but there will always be differences of opinion on what ideas are best.

[lojay]

...try making pieces sound like they should, perfectly.  That is a much higher standard, and the only one worth pursuing.

...comparing oneself to  someone else will always be a fraught exercise. If you have your own idea, then it will be different from that other persons.  It is your ability to give full voice to that idea, your idea, though, that is your measure of perfection.

To paraphrase, you are saying that one's conception of a piece is their own measure of perfection.  Taking what you said from a previous reply, this conception would be of a much higher standard than whatever the OP could compare himself to, and therefore be the only standard worth pursuing.

I remember seeing a post, I forgot by whom, where someone linked a youtube video of himself playing a Chopin etude.  I and many of the more vocal members of the forums felt that the performance was an atrocity.  I eventually thought it was a troll, but I initially found it impressive he was able to get through the piece and not notice how awful he sounded.  Many members on the forums were quite harsh with the critique (I must stress that the playing was truly awful), yet the person who posted the video insisted his playing was amazing and true to his intentions.

Assuming that person wasn't a troll, is this the higher standard you're talking about?  I think if that person listened to some Pollini/Ashkenazy/(insert your favorite pianist for Chopin etudes) and objectively compared himself, he would have improved drastically.

I actually do agree with you that ultimately one should have their own ideas and attempt to execute them.  However, I'd bet that most students won't be educated enough to even decisively know what they want and the students that think they know what they want really don't know.  I remember watching a documentary featuring Joyce Yang where she describes her experience at Juilliard with Dr. Kaplinsky: Joyce would polish a piece and bring it to a lesson thinking her approach is really good, only to have her conception completely destroyed.

[j_menz]

To paraphrase, you are saying that one's conception of a piece is their own measure of perfection.  Taking what you said from a previous reply, this conception would be of a much higher standard than whatever the OP could compare himself to, and therefore be the only standard worth pursuing.

The conception need not be a higher standard, and the world is certainly not short of pianists with great  technical ability and poor conceptual ones.

But, that is a different question.  In terms of motivation to play, and the standard to aim for, the ability to realise one's own conception should be stimulus enough.

Of course, one should also develop ones conceptual skills, through reading and through listening to others ideas/performances. 

That conception also needs to be the master, not one's abilities.

Two goals then: a great conception, perfectly realised.

Should keep us all busy.

[lojay]

We totally hijacked the OP's thread.

[j_menz]

We totally hijacked the OP's thread.

Hmm. Perhaps one of those worse character traits I mentioned. 

To make amends:

@sv3nno

It's not too late, but you need to work out what you are after here. If you are working on classical music as a meant to some other end, rather than for itself, you aren't going to find it very motivating. All work. Maybe good for you, but not exactly fun.

What do you like to, or aspire to play? And do you actually do any of that?

[outin]

Personally, I strongly disagree with this comment in this post's context.

Being able to compare yourself to and compete with others is a hugely beneficial tool. 

I meant a certain kind of negative thinking when talking about comparing here. People can't help comparing themselves to others of course and it is helpful in assessing one's abilities, but you should not do it in a way that stops you from working in your own pace towards your goals. It seems to be something that people differ on. Some people get motivated by competition but others can't. From reading the OP post I see a thinking pattern: "This guy is on so much higher level than me, so I should probably give up". Also competing is ok, but if that is the ONLY thing that motivates one, I think there's a big disappointment and emptiness waiting at the end of the road.

[outin]

This brings me to my next point about complacency.  For me, the worst character trait is complacency.  If you're constantly aware how other people play and strive to play as good or "better" than them, you'll never develop complacency. 

I will have to disagree on this as a generalization. True, it may be painful to listen to some Youtube videos of people who do not have a clue what they are doing, but working with people has led me to believe that more people suffer from being over critical of themselves. Although we may see a cultural difference here too. In my culture people have been taught early on that if you can you should not feel too proud, since you probably just think you can and you should do even better

[slobone]

I think the best advice for students of any age is, figure out where you are right now, and what the next step should be. Work on one problem at a time. Don't let yourself be discouraged by how well other people are playing.

It's also crucial to get a really good teacher. They can help you put things in perspective. At 15 your nervous system is still taking shape. You have many good years ahead of you to learn piano, if that's what you really want to do. But I can't tell from your post how important it is to you. If you don't really care that much, you're not going to do very well, same as with anything else.

[lostinidlewonder]

Don't compare yourself to others, you can play "simple" music and become world famous, look at Richard Clayderman and he is one of the most successful pianist ever.

But let me tell you this, don't become a musician, run away from piano and do something else for a living. If you really are meant to do music for a living then no advice that tells you not to do it will effect you.

[lojay]

I will have to disagree on this as a generalization.

I should probably remove my silly commentary on complacency being the worst character trait.  I should also remove "never", so I don't generalize .

True, it may be painful to listen to some Youtube videos of people who do not have a clue what they are doing, but working with people has led me to believe that more people suffer from being over critical of themselves.

I believe that self criticism is necessary for improvement.  Of course, being overly critical of oneself is bad; but most of the time, isn't an excess of anything bad?

Although we may see a cultural difference here too. In my culture people have been taught early on that if you can you should not feel too proud, since you probably just think you can and you should do even better

I wouldn't say that we disagree due to a cultural difference.  I think it's just a matter of opinion.  In fact, I'd bet most of the people I interact with daily would agree with your perspective.

[lojay]

@OP: I feel kind of bad for causing the thread to digress, so I'll sum up my initial post and give some practical advice.  This is coming from a fellow student!

Since you already see where you stand, don't worry about being behind or anything of this nature.

Focus on what you can do to improve as much as you can.  I think it's important to set goals.  Also, make sure you pay particular attention to practicing efficiently.

[keypeg]

Focus on what you can do to improve as much as you can.  I think it's important to set goals.  Also, make sure you pay particular attention to practicing efficiently.

Both of which begin with what has, and HAS NOT been taught by whatever teacher for 10 years.  That can make an enormous difference.  My previous post is more detailed on the matter.

[outin]

I wouldn't say that we disagree due to a cultural difference.  I think it's just a matter of opinion.  In fact, I'd bet most of the people I interact with daily would agree with your perspective.

What I meant was that due to where I live I encounter less people who I could say are complacent than you might and more people who have no faith in  their abilities, even though may have quite a bit...