Students who think they can treat you badly.

[lostinidlewonder]

Well it took a little while but I finally have come across another student who thinks they can treat me like a slave. They made a change to lesson time last week and asked if I could fit them in another day, so I said I could the following day. The problem was that I was mistaken and double booked the time. I rang them the next day to let them know I made a mistake and couldn't see them until next week and they just say to me, "We are very disappointed in you."

What the heck!?

I politely reminded them that I had them booked for the day before (and they rang 1 hour before that time to cancel) and that school holidays had just ended and students where returning, but that didn't seem good enough. It was THEM who did not honor the time that they were supposed to have a lesson, I did them a favor and made time and they still threw it back in my face. They didn't even react with any hint of understanding and just said with frustration "We will contact you for the next lesson." I quickly struck the student off my timetable and replaced them.

People never cease to amaze me sometimes! Any of you been treated like feces before? lol

[j_menz]

If they were in the habit of referring to themselves in the plural (the Royal "we"), you can't say that you weren't forewarned that they might be trouble.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

What the heck!?

Yo I totally feel you!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

If they were in the habit of referring to themselves in the plural (the Royal "we"), you can't say that you weren't forewarned that they might be trouble.

Yeah that should have made me think. Although I am wondering if they just really wanted piano lessons.... It is weird because I have taught them for several months and they just spontaneously went crazy on me like this.

Yo I totally feel you!!!

Yeah so I'm not totally overreacting!

[p2u_]

Students who think they can treat you badly.

I wonder if what you write is a good analysis of the situation.

1) They want their lesson on another day. [There may be legitimate reasons for that.]
2) You plan them in but in the process YOU make a mistake. You have to cancel the lesson they were counting on, and they are disappointed.

As they say: "$hit happens", but you are not supposed to make that kind of mistakes in business. This has not so much to do with them treating you badly. Even if you did not intend it, it's they who got the idea that they were not important enough for you, and that's a big no-no in business.

Paul

[chopin2015]

Yeah that should have made me think. Although I am wondering if they just really wanted piano lessons.... It is weird because I have taught them for several months and they just spontaneously went crazy on me like this.

Yeah so I'm not totally overreacting!

Lol so is it one person and you call him/her by they and you guys? Split mode personality?

[lostinidlewonder]

1) They want their lesson on another day. [There may be legitimate reasons for that.]
2) You plan them in but in the process YOU make a mistake. You have to cancel the lesson they were counting on, and they are disappointed.

As they say: "$hit happens", but you are not supposed to make that kind of mistakes in business. This has not so much to do with them treating you badly. Even if you did not intend it, it's they who got the idea that they were not important enough for you, and that's a big no-no in business.

Paul

1) They may have a legit reason but they left it to 1 hour before the lesson to notify me and gave me no reason just that they can't make it. Students only can book one time a week for me (which is the same time for the entire semester no changing around all the time, it would be impossible to allow people to chose a different time every week), if I had 2 students a week then they can choose whatever, but my timetable is very full.

2) It is ok to be disappointed but to make it look like it is all my fault is ridiculous. I could have just said to them sorry I can't change the time see you next week. I gave them the chance to have a make up lesson.

I honestly don't believe that I owe them anything in terms of changing times to fit them in, I have many students and it is difficult to change times if a student misses their lesson. Because school has just started again this also makes my timetable very difficult, especially when a student who was away for the holidays rings me on the day to say to come to the lesson. It is my mistake not to have mentioned to the "disappointed" student that this was a chance, but they really don't need to know all of my business activity. And in business we can make mistakes, we are all human after all, how could I predict that my away student would return when they only gave me an estimation of when they will return?

How I see it, I didn't have to change a time for them, I did out the goodness out of my heart, it just happened not to work and they chucked a hissy fit. It seems very ignorant to the fact that I didn't have to change time at all for them.

[lostinidlewonder]

Lol so is it one person and you call him/her by they and you guys? Split mode personality?

I say the generalized "they" because I am discussing it on a public forum and I don't want my other students to read this and know who I am talking about. I never said "you guys".

[p2u_]

@ lostinidlewonder

I think you are complicating the issue in an unproductive direction. The motivation itself for this or that action on either side is NOT important. You are BOTH offended for the wrong reasons, you see?

In a real business situation, you could have lost an important deal by making such a mistake. Learn from this event and don't make the same mistake again. Remember, there is such a thing as word-of-mouth advertisement, which can be both positive and negative.

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

I don't think I am complicating the issue at all for my personal situation, in fact if I let the student just treat me like rubbish it complicates the issue furthermore. I am a teacher and I expect that my students show me some form of respect just as I give them. I didn't get angry with this particular student because they rang me 1 hour before a lesson to cancel, yet they felt the need to show disapproval when I had to change the time. There is double standards here, very clear and I am not going to subject myself to that rubbish.

If there is a matter such as this one that arises and the student treats me 2nd rate I don't believe I need to cop it, I am not that needy for a student to deal with it. I have no problems with filling my timetable and I certainly am not desperate that I keep students that treat me disrespectfully.

I understand word of mouth very well, I have been a private and public teacher now for almost 20 years. Negative word of mouth comes from irrelevant people, if you don't like someone you don't spread your dislike why waste your time doing that? If you like someone you spread the good word. Those who spread negativity I couldn't care less who listens to them. If they speak to all my other students and hundreds of past students they will see what the truth is. I ignore negative people (who are very few and far between), I am not running a hotel business.

[p2u_]

@ lostinidlewonder

Your emotional word usage still suggests deep insult, and this tends to work like a boomerang coming back at you in the form of emotions that eat you. Why do you put the blame on others when there is a simple lesson to learn here? Basically, by trying to be kind and agreeing upon THEIR conditions ONE HOUR BEFORE A PLANNED LESSON SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE, you did the wrong thing and went against your own policies. The lesson to learn is that you should NEVER do that. Such kindness rarely pays off. Give them a finger, and they rip off your whole arm...

Paul

[sucom]

@ lostinidlewonder

Your emotional word usage still suggests deep insult, and this tends to work like a boomerang coming back at you in the form of emotions that eat you. Why do you put the blame on others when there is a simple lesson to learn here? Basically, by trying to be kind and agreeing upon THEIR conditions ONE HOUR BEFORE A PLANNED LESSON SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE, you did the wrong thing and went against your own policies. The lesson to learn is that you should NEVER do that. Such kindness rarely pays off. Give them a finger, and they rip off your whole arm...

Paul

Aaaaah!  I think I misunderstood your first posts, perhaps in the same way as Lostinidlewonder might have done.  In a way, I'm quite glad your earlier posts were ambiguous because it has caused you to outline 'exactly' what you were trying to put across and your words are really worth repeating and remembering so thank you for this!

You're absolutely right - it's totally wrong to go against your own policies.  I did it for years and so regret it.  I've had to get tough, really tough and it's working. No more being nice about missed/cancelled lessons any more!   I just wish I had heard your words years ago!  It would have saved so much pent up frustration in the past.

You're a treasure!

@ Lostinidlewonder
I really feel for you being treated like this.  Don't let them get to you!  Some people just aren't worth the bother.  It's their demonstration, not yours.  I would just forget about them now and move on.

[lostinidlewonder]

Your emotional word usage still suggests deep insult,

I have already outlined that I can easily replace students, I am not deeply insulted, I thought it would be an interesting issue to discuss and I wanted to see other peoples experiences. If I were deeply insulted I certainly would not share it on a public forum.

and this tends to work like a boomerang coming back at you in the form of emotions that eat you.

Why do you think you know what is happening to me? Please discuss the issue and not try to guess at what I am feeling.

Why do you put the blame on others when there is a simple lesson to learn here?

I am sorry I am not being politically correct when pointing out someones double standards but being PC doesn't interest me for online discussion. I did not throw this at my student which I could have but that would have been unprofessional. However with a discussion board we have the freedom to discuss whatever we like without feeling like we are being unprofessional because no names are named and not one of you in this entire website or internet as a whole for that matter knows who I am talking about.

Basically, by trying to be kind and agreeing upon THEIR conditions ONE HOUR BEFORE A PLANNED LESSON SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE, you did the wrong thing and went against your own policies.

Excuse me? You know my policy? I have not outlined my policy with lesson cancellations at all in this thread. All I am talking about is in the opening post.

The lesson to learn is that you should NEVER do that. Such kindness rarely pays off. Give them a finger, and they rip off your whole arm...

I have been doing it for almost 20 years now and get paid more than the average teacher and have more students than I can deal with.

[lostinidlewonder]

I really feel for you being treated like this.  Don't let them get to you!  Some people just aren't worth the bother.  It's their demonstration, not yours.  I would just forget about them now and move on.

It takes a HUGE HUGE HUGE amount to bother me. This is nothing. I just wanted to discuss it because it interests me.

[p2u_]

and this tends to work like a boomerang coming back at you in the form of emotions that eat you.

Why do you think you know what is happening to me? Please discuss the issue and not try to guess at what I am feeling.

Why do you read "you" (personally) when you is not used in a personal sense? It is a generalisation. I don't know how to construct the phrase with "one", because English is not my native language.

Excuse me? You know my policy? I have not outlined my policy with lesson cancellations at all in this thread. All I am talking about is in the opening post.

I thought the following quote reflected your policies clearly enough:

It was THEM who did not honor the time that they were supposed to have a lesson, I did them a favor and made time and they still threw it back in my face.

If that does not reveal your policies (in terms of what you had expected from them), then I'm so sorry for having interpreted it incorrectly.

It takes a HUGE HUGE HUGE amount to bother me. This is nothing. I just wanted to discuss it because it interests me.

In that case you could have used some more objective phrasing, no? I'll just give you a list of alert signs in your posts in this thread that suggest otherwise:

1. another student who thinks they can treat me like a slave
2. Any of you been treated like feces before?
3. they just spontaneously went crazy on me like this
4. I did out the goodness out of my heart, it just happened not to work and they chucked a hissy fit. It seems very ignorant to the fact that I didn't have to change time at all for them.
5. in fact if I let the student just treat me like rubbish it complicates the issue furthermore.
6. I am a teacher and I expect that my students show me some form of respect just as I give them.
7. There is double standards here, very clear and I am not going to subject myself to that rubbish.

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

Why do you read "you" (personally) when you is not used in a personal sense? It is a generalisation. I don't know how to construct the phrase with "one", because English is not my native language.

Because I can only relate the situation to my own since no one else has put forth their own situation your use of "you" is only addressing the single situation described in this thread.

I thought the following quote reflected your policies clearly enough:
If that does not reveal your policies (in terms of what you had expected from them), then I'm so sorry for having interpreted it incorrectly.

No need to apologize as no offense was taken, I am merely addressing your assumptions on me.

In that case you could have used some more objective phrasing, no? I'll just give you a list of alert signs in your posts in this thread that suggest otherwise:

My elaborations does not necessarily relate to only this situation described in the opening post. I am talking in generalizations here not directly referring it exclusively to this single experience.

I wonder why you choose to disagree with my statement that I am not bothered by it by trying to quote me and use those words in your INTERPRETATION to disagree with my truthful statement that I am not bothered by it. Trying this is useless as it doesn't add to the discussion.


 

[p2u_]

Because I can only relate the situation to my own since no one else has put forth their own situation your use of "you" is only addressing the single situation described in this thread.

I'm sorry. I thought the "this tends" phrase was enough to suggest generalisation.

Still, I hope that all readers will learn from this story: ONE should NEVER give in to conditions imposed upon by ONE'S students, especially at such short notice. Nothing good can come out of it because the power over the situation will be in their hands.

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm sorry. I thought the "this tends" phrase was enough to suggest generalisation.

Well you can't separate this fragmented quote from your opening of the sentence which places emphasis that you believe I am offended "Your emotional word usage still suggests deep insult.."
This is based on 1) your interpretation of emotional word usage and 2) your belief that I am probably deeply insulted.
But anyway.... lets ignore it.

ONE should NEVER give in to conditions imposed upon by ONE'S students, especially at such short notice. Nothing good can come out of it because the power over the situation will be in their hands.

I disagree with this, we should make allowances now and then thus NEVER and being totally stubborn to NEVER try and satisfy a students condition is unprofessional. You can make allowances now and then but overall it needs to run the way that works for you since it is your own business you are running.

[p2u_]

ONE should NEVER give in to conditions imposed upon by ONE'S students, especially at such short notice. Nothing good can come out of it because the power over the situation will be in their hands.

I disagree with this, we should make allowances now and then thus NEVER and being totally stubborn to NEVER try and satisfy a students condition is unprofessional.

For some reason you stress the NEVER-part, but the meaning of my statement lies in the condition (= have a student impose unfavorable conditions upon you, which is negative by definition). Anyway, I have never had anything like this happen to me so I'm probably not the one to judge.

Paul

[nyiregyhazi]

I wonder why you choose to disagree with my statement that I am not bothered by it by trying to quote me and use those words in your INTERPRETATION to disagree with my truthful statement that I am not bothered by it. Trying this is useless as it doesn't add to the discussion.


 

I'd reread your original posts and responses. It speaks of virtually nothing but how overwhelmingly bothered you are by this. I have little doubt that you're going to want to the shoot the messenger, but it's a fact that people who are not bothered by something just get on with things. They don't vent at length to anonymous internet strangers and then make a point of repeating that they are not bothered. Your original post contains virtually nothing but emotional venting. The only call for discussion came almost as a token question at the end. You didn't even ask for views on this situation, but merely invited others to vent on separate cases. That is not at all productive. Unless we look to what can be done differently, we learn nothing and such things will only happen again. While teachers forums almost inevitably provoke little but back slapping in these situations, there's far more worth in stepping back from emotional issues and considering what you have the power to change- for your OWN future good.

In these circumstances, the only valuable approach is to look to YOURSELF and ask what you could have done differently. Some things cannot be controlled, but the way to avoid future problems is to consider what can be done to sculpt your own destiny. Paul was trying to provide constructive advice, but sadly you're reading it in terms of whether you get blamed or the parent gets blamed. It's not about blame but about considering what you can control and what you have no control over - in order to help yourself avoid this type of situation, which clearly bothers you to the extreme. If you don't want it to happen again, rather than hold grudges against the person, ask YOURSELF what you can do to prevent such situations.

We have no control over others, but we have complete control over what we do. If we agree to reschedule a lesson, we can make it clear that it wouldn't normally be possible. If not completely sure, we can make sure that we do not commit to anything on the fly, but agree to let them know if a possibility does arise. Sure, wanting to agree an alternative time comes from good intentions, but we still have to take responsibility if we make a promise that we then have to go back on. If we're sure that it IS possible to reschedule, we can make it clear that we're doing them a favour (not by saying "look, I'm doing you a big favour here" etc. but by implying that it's difficult but we're willing to go to special trouble as a one off. If we're not sure, we should avoid promises- to protect ourselves.

If a genuine mistake occurs and we've done everything we could have done, even then, it's a total waste of time getting worked up. Who gives a damn if a parent says they're disappointed and you have the chance to find an alternative student? If you're secure in yourself, it should be water off a duck's back. The parent didn't say you're faeces and neither did they say you're a slave. You're the only person who suggested such things- which suggests that you want to look inside yourself and explore why a single expression of disappointment in a mistake arouses such strong protective emotions from you- against sentiments that were not expressed. That's the only place where growth can come from.
  

[lostinidlewonder]

nyiregyahzi I am not going to waste my time with you. Thank you. Your opinion are your own not the "Golden Truth" that you so psychotically believe, you deluded man. Why don't you go back to the other piano forums you were BANNED from?

[nyiregyhazi]

nyiregyahzi I am not going to waste my time with you. Thank you. Your opinion are your own not the "Golden Truth" that you so psychotically believe, you deluded man. Why don't you go back to the other piano forums you were BANNED from?

I've presented my opinion and it's up to you and anyone else to make up their own mind whether they agree or not- and whether they choose to respond with personal attacks or not. If you prefer to dwell on grudges (either against myself or the parent who has irked you to such an extreme, with a single comment) rather than move onwards, be my guest. I've presented my stance and whether you want to hear it or not, I'm not getting involved in off-topic slanging matches.  

[lostinidlewonder]

Your opinion is idiotic because i have already said i was not offended yet you then go ahead and write a thesis trying to say otherwise as if you know what I feel better than myself! You are deluded man beyond belief. If anyone spends time to read your posts they will become more stupid.

[nyiregyhazi]

Your opinion is idiotic because i have already said i was not offended yet you then go ahead and write a thesis trying to say otherwise. You are deluded man beyond belief. If anyone spends time to read your posts they will become more stupid.

I rest my case. Continue to indulge in whatever vitriol you will  (complete with your absence of bother), but I won't be back unless to reply on topical issues that arise.

[lostinidlewonder]

Good leave, good riddance. Whenever you respond to my threads you merely act as a pest that's why you got BANNED from pianoworld. Goodbye.

[chopin2015]

I say the generalized "they" because I am discussing it on a public forum and I don't want my other students to read this and know who I am talking about. I never said "you guys".

I was just kudding around...

I must be really spoiled because I used to cancel and switch on my teacher all the time. I even took a month off. Now i only switch if my school schedule switches, and she gives me lots of options. But we do have the lets pick a day that works best policy, and for your situation, you guys didnt pick the day so the mature thing to do would be well we can work something out even if it is parting on a good note or finding a new teacher until our schedules work again...they got upset you should have said hold on, lets talk. Do you communicate through email at all? Its probably a begginiing student, huh?

[lostinidlewonder]

You have a flexible teacher, nice that she accommodates you. I try to make the same effort when possible also but it doesn't always work out as this thread described. I have several students who take time off and return periodically, this is for many different reasons. I like to help them with their situation and don't discard them for other students.

I communicated with this student appropriately, I didn't argue with them and apologised for the inconvenience, it is business after all. But as a matter of discussion I'd like to see what others have experienced or their opinion, not about me but about the situation. I know myself, I'd like to hear other people's experiences or opinions on the situation, is it ok to let a student change time with little notice but then get upset if the teacher does the same? This could also relate to other double standard situations.

[pairra]

I guess I'm in the minority but I think the fault is with Lostindlewonder. I've double booked and made other mistakes, and mistakes really piss people off. You would think that just because it's piano lessons that people wouldn't get so upset. But that's definitely not the case because people are just so wrapped up in their own lives\schedules\feelings. And it's upsetting when there is a bump in the road.

I know it sucks to hear, but you're in a service business. Not a tit-for-tat busines. Just because a client asks for an exception\pass does not mean that client will happily grant the service provider an exception\pass. They won't. It's easy think that because you're in direct contact with these people on a weekly basis.

In the service business, you can't make mistakes. Period. Each mistake costs you a client and if you're lucky enough to have a client who overlooks one or even two mistakes, you better be grateful.  I think you're getting caught up in how people should treat you respectfully, ect. And it's true, people should. But you are a business providing a service (not being the neighbor across the street). People want what they want, and they want it now. AKA, the customer is always (usually) right.

Were I in your situation I would have apologized profusely, silently cursed them for not understanding that I'm not perfect and make mistakes too, and then offered some type of credit to appease them. And going over your description, if it's accurate, it doesn't seem as if they treated you that badly. You called them. They expressed their feelings in a respectful way, even though it hurt your feelings, and then things escalated from there. Your clients could have responded in a multitude of ways including pretending to be fine then secretly going behind your back and getting a new teacher. Instead they were direct. I'd take on a studio full of direct students today.

Oh, and one more thing, if your actions went against your studio policy, then you only have one person to blame. If you can't enforce your studio policy, then get another one. Don't feel like you have to have the same policies as everyone else. Use what works for yourself. I mean, if you have no problem rescheduling students, then do so. Just have a system in place that ensures you don't double book. For example, instead of giving the student a time right then and there, get back to them at the end of the day after you've triple checked your schedule.

Ah, and last thing.  Promise. When clients or customers get upset, there is usually a learning moment somewhere. Always go back and review everything and ask yourself if there is any one thing, no matter how small, that you could have done to have prevented the situation. If there is one thing, like not double booking, then you can't place the blame anywhere but yourself.

Just a humble opinion from someone who's made a lot of mistakes over the years.

[lostinidlewonder]

I am not running a hotel however where I need to deal with all fussing matters. You have not addresses the double standards I highlighted that this client exhibited. If I have excess amounts of students please explain to me why you think I should have to deal with this?

I cannot track all my students that go on holiday and constantly ask them when they are returning, some do not know and I can't delete them from my services because of this. One of them who didn't know when they were returning contacted me and said they wanted to resume on their normal time, and it was three children from the same family as opposed to this single one that I mentioned in the opening post. The double booking wasn't a simple mistake or lack of looking at the timetable, a student returned and immediate wanted to start again on the same time they had last year, they have the preference over a student I am rescheduling. I don't see a fault in this at all.

[chopin2015]

You have a flexible teacher, nice that she accommodates you. I try to make the same effort when possible also but it doesn't always work out as this thread described. I have several students who take time off and return periodically, this is for many different reasons. I like to help them with their situation and don't discard them for other students.

I communicated with this student appropriately, I didn't argue with them and apologised for the inconvenience, it is business after all. But as a matter of discussion I'd like to see what others have experienced or their opinion, not about me but about the situation. I know myself, I'd like to hear other people's experiences or opinions on the situation, is it ok to let a student change time with little notice but then get upset if the teacher does the same? This could also relate to other double standard situations.

Well they obviosly want to continue lessons immediatly...try to be more understanding. They may be under stress from their schedule. You are the teacher so maybe you should apologize for any misunderstanding...take the bigger step and see how it goes. They cant contact you for next lesson because they dont know your schedule. Dont ask them when they are available, youre the boss, tell them when you can have lessons and let them work it out. 

Me: hey mrs s, i am back from russia. Would like to do lessons
Her: great! I cannot do tuesdays this week but mondays wed and fri i have openings
Me: i cannot do tuesdays because of school either, i am available mondays and fri
Her:how bout fri at 11 am
Me: great! See you then!

Its not a can you do wed?
-no
Great nice to know you then

Its a problem solving situation


What if they were testing you?

[nyiregyhazi]

I cannot track all my students that go on holiday and constantly ask them when they are returning, some do not know and I can't delete them from my services because of this. One of them who didn't know when they were returning contacted me and said they wanted to resume on their normal time, and it was three children from the same family as opposed to this single one that I mentioned in the opening post. The double booking wasn't a simple mistake or lack of looking at the timetable, a student returned and immediate wanted to start again on the same time they had last year, they have the preference over a student I am rescheduling. I don't see a fault in this at all.

While I anticipate that you have no interest in hearing this, I'm going to reply to what is an open and public discussion for teachers- not a private thread of your own. If you're not interested, don't waste any time justifying yourself to myself or anyone else. Just behave as you see fit, if you're confident that you're in the right.  

Anyway, if I was a client I would be exceedingly bothered by having been offered a time and then had it cancelled for the sake of what was not a double booking at all, but a casual re-booking after a time had been offered. That is UNLESS I was told the time might be available. Once promised a time, I don't think it would be good practise to cancel in favour of someone else who had not been down for a lesson. I don't know if you expressed these circumstances to the client or not, but it makes perfect sense for them to be bothered at having been offered a time and then had it retracted in favour of the chance to teach a few extra lessons and get more money. You didn't say what circumstances made them have to cancel the first time, but that amounts to making an agreement and then retracting for casual reasons. I don't know whether the student had a really good reason for cancellation or not, but that amounts to a retracted promise. In business, that's not a good idea- especially if you wish to place blame on the client for being disappointed in that.

If you're not interested in seeing the story from two sides, by all means ignore this or reply with whatever off-topic vitriol takes your fancy. However, if you want to raise an issue in a public forum to, you shouldn't be surprised to hear honest answers. I don't know who you are trying to justify yourself to or defend yourself against. Behave as you see fit, but don't be surprised that other teachers will not necessarily see it from your point of view. 

[lostinidlewonder]

You think it is an open response? You are talking about my situation, create your own situation and stop plagiarising me.

What you write is worthless to me and a lot of other members have also told you the same because of your vile behaviour.

[nyiregyhazi]

You think it is an open response? You are talking about my situation, create your own situation and stop plagiarising me.

I have not the slightest idea what that is even supposed to mean. People are only allowed opinions on their own situations? Who decided that? Presumably reviewing a concert is "plagiarising" it, on this logic? I'll simply suggest that you do some research into the public nature of internet forums. If you want a private thread, you need a private forum to vent in.

If having the nerve to disagree with you is "vile", then I'll continue to be "vile" in any future situations where I have different view to yours (just as other posters have been "vile" enough to be honest with you about this public tantrum).

[lostinidlewonder]

You pretend that your response is not directed to me. You are not good at pretending. I am happy you have no idea what is going on, that's good.

You are vile because when you quote people your sole aim is to disagree with them. Bugger off you are useless to me in my threads and this thread is for me I want to get people's experiences not your lame hypotheticals, go corrupt your own thread with your emptiness.

[nyiregyhazi]

You pretend that your response is not directed to me. You are not good at pretending. I am happy you have no idea what is going on, that's good.

You are vile becaus when you quote people your sole aim is to disagree with them. Buggere off you are useless to me in my threads and this thread is for me I want to get people's experiences not your lame hypotheticals, go corrupt your own thread with your emptiness.

I'm not getting involved with any more of this nonsense. I'm simply going to report this angry tirade of abuse to the moderators, as well as any further ones that you wish to come up with. Forums are for open discussion- not for the OP but for ALL members- who have a right to see reasonable counterpoints to any viewpoint. You do not own this thread any more than I own any thread I should start.  It's a PUBLIC forum for discussion. If you can't handle the idea that anyone could disagree with you and care to explain their reasoning for that, you need to start a private forum to control for yourself.

[p2u_]

@ lostinidlewonder

N. has made some valuable points. I don't understand why you are reacting the way you are to EVERYTHING he says. If you don't want to hear a critical evaluation by anyone of your sitation, then that's fine with me, but don't you think this limits the value of this topic for all teachers present here? Just asking.

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

Excuse me this is MY thread I am discussion MY situation. You come in and say, oh but you are so angry as if you know me better than myself. Please contact admins they already know that you were banned from other forums.

[nyiregyhazi]

Excuse me this is MY thread I am discussion MY situation.

And this a TEACHER'S THREAD for ALL TEACHERS to openly exchange viewpoints. You can't impose your personal censorship on something you have no ownership of, based on your individual convenience. This is genuinely quite disturbing...

[lostinidlewonder]

@ lostinidlewonder

N. has made some valuable points. I don't understand why you are reacting the way you are to EVERYTHING he says. If you don't want to hear a critical evaluation by anyone of your sitation, then that's fine with me, but don't you think this limits the value of this topic for all teachers present here? Just asking.

Paul

Paul I know him from piano world where he was banned from by admins there who had enough of his CONSTANT disagreements with other members. He is doing the same here, I have already told him many times not to respond to me but he constantly does under the guise that it is a public forum. This thread was about me and my situation, I specifically asked people about their experiences, he comes along and pretnds to know me better than I do then writes a thesis trying to prove that I am angry.

He might have nice points but he dots disagreement and pasting of his own doctrines over other people. He tries to uncover people as frauds, being totally mistaken etc. It is why piano world banned him and yet he thinks he can continue to harass me here too now. His motives are not to share knowledge but to disagree.

[lostinidlewonder]

And this a TEACHER'S THREAD for ALL TEACHERS to openly exchange viewpoints. You can't impose your personal censorship on something you have no ownership of, based on your individual convenience. This is genuinely quite disturbing...

No this thread is abut my experience no where did I ask for people to guess what I am feeling like you did with your opening response here. You just constantly like to disagree with people, sad.

[nyiregyhazi]

he comes along and pretnds to know me better than I do then writes a thesis trying to prove that I am angry.

You've done the same thing you did when you said the parents thought you are a slave or faeces etc. I provided an alternative side to a story- one which other teachers reading need to consider if a similar situation arises for them. Nobody said anything about knowing better than you. What makes you so defensive that you need to defend yourself against an argument that has not been made? If you're comfortable in your actions, why should an alternative stance trouble you? Behave as you wish with confidence in yourself. The thing about discussions is that it's pointless to post saying "I agree". It's when people have conflicting viewpoints that it becomes interesting. I've learned a lot from being disagreed with- and virtually nothing from being figuratively nodded at. If you cannot accept the right of people to have opposing views, you should not post in a public forum- where other readers have a right to see both sides of a story.

[p2u_]

He might have nice points but he dots disagreement and pasting of his own doctrines over other people. He tries to uncover people as frauds, being totally mistaken etc. It is why piano world banned him and yet he thinks he can continue to harass me here too now. His motives are not to share knowledge but to disagree.

I'd suggest burying the hatchet between you two. Objectively, I don't see anything harmful or evil in what he says. I also have hot discussions with him sometimes in other places, but generally, one quotes only the things one does not agree with, and reacts to those. What is not quoted or reacted to is usually understood or agreed with. Isn't that the point of a good discussion?

Paul

[lostinidlewonder]

You better learn to read and stop trying to twist words. Where did I say the student said I was faeces? No where. Read properly for goodness sake I am not going to spoon feed you.

I am comfortable with my stance I just don't want your opinions around me, they are useless, you know how I feel about you but as a child you try to antagonise me. I can quote you line by line and show how you are playing your tangling games but how often do I need to do that? Lets go back to twenty odd threads on pianostreet alone where I have done this and you end up running away defeated. Now I choose to simply dismiss you and spare the forum 10 pages or useless discussion.

[lostinidlewonder]

I'd suggest burying the hatchet between you two. Objectively, I don't see anything harmful or evil in what he says. I also have hot discussions with him sometimes in other places, but generally, one quotes only the things one does not agree with, and reacts to those. What is not quoted or reacted to is usually understood or agreed with. Isn't that the point of a good discussion?

Paul

I am all for people to disagree, look at my history with him and you will see why I couldn't care less for his comments. He is the only person on pianostreet who I don't want to read.

[nyiregyhazi]

You better learn to read and stop trying to twist words. Where did I say the student said I was faeces? No where. Read properly for goodness sake I am not going to spoon feed you.

I am comfortable with my stance I just don't want your opinions around me, they are useless, you know how I feel about you but as a child you try to antagonise me.

If you feel antagonised by being disagreed with, that does not grant you a right to try to censor a public forum that you do not own or to bring any topic where I disagree with you off-topic and onto a repeat of your attempts to do so. Setup a private one- and stop taking threads off topic by turning any on-topic argument into part of an imagined personal feud. I argue against opinions where I disagree with them- not the person making them. I will not reciprocate any personally aimed abuse and I'd sooner not have to defend myself against calls for forum censorship every time I happen to have a different view to yours.
 
"Any of you been treated like feces before" (incidentally, I didn't actually say the parent's "said" you were faeces- you misquoted me).

[lostinidlewonder]

Well ill leave it at that, people can read how stupid you are at trying to quote me.

You've done the same thing you did when you said the parents thought you are a slave or faeces etc.

"Anyone else ever been treated like feces"  (incidentally, I didn't actually say the parent's "said" you were faeces- you misquoted me).

You are one crazy person truly.

[keypeg]

LiiW, my impression is that the majority of your colleagues have responded to you as a fellow professional, rather than as an amateur dabbling in teaching who wants to have his head patted.  I run a professional service and am certified in two professions, teaching being one of them.  The other is in the area of linguistics.  I run my business from home, which puts me in similar scenarios as your own.

The first thing you have to remember is that you are the professional, and your client is not.  You create the organization and the guidance.  You also know what standard expected behaviour is in your field, while your client doesn't.  You are not an engineer working with a team of engineers and other trained people in your field - you are working with Joe Public who has come to take piano lessons.  The Latin word "ignosco" means I don't know, and the word "ignorant" means "not to know".  Your Joe Public does not know what is expected.  He cannot picture your work.  He cannot imagine that it turns your world upside down when he changes his schedule last minute, and that it is a FAVOUR which is also a hardship for you to change times.

So when you vent with a title about students "thinking they can treat you badly" --- The student is probably not trying to treat you badly, let alone thinking he can and should do so.  He gave his honest impression of being "disappointed", because he was.  You were silent because you are professional.  He wasn't, because he isn't.

You say that you were not upset, but in fact you were.  Your title says so.  Your opening post says so.  Referring to yourself as a slave and feces in your student's eyes (and yes, you did use that term - see your last paragraph in the OP) says that you were upset.  And why not?  It's called being human.

In regards to you not running a hotel service - I have a huge respect for people who run successful hotels.   They have a college degree in the field followed by training.  If you can run the operations part of your teaching service as well as a hotelier can, then you have something to be proud of.  We can learn from everyone, and probably should.

[lostinidlewonder]

The first thing you have to remember is that you are the professional, and your client is not.  You create the organization and the guidance.  You also know what standard expected behaviour is in your field, while your client doesn't.  You are not an engineer working with a team of engineers and other trained people in your field - you are working with Joe Public who has come to take piano lessons.  The Latin word "ignosco" means I don't know, and the word "ignorant" means "not to know".  Your Joe Public does not know what is expected.  He cannot picture your work.  He cannot imagine that it turns your world upside down when he changes his schedule last minute, and that it is a FAVOUR which is also a hardship for you to change times.

I appreciate this keypeg nicely written and helps me put my experience into better perspective.

So when you vent with a title about students "thinking they can treat you badly" --- The student is probably not trying to treat you badly, let alone thinking he can and should do so.  He gave his honest impression of being "disappointed", because he was.  You were silent because you are professional.  He wasn't, because he isn't.

This particular student is a professional in another field though I guess I expected a controlled reaction because of the situation as I described in the initial post.

You say that you were not upset, but in fact you were.  Your title says so.  Your opening post says so.  Referring to yourself as a slave and feces in your student's eyes (and yes, you did use that term - see your last paragraph in the OP) says that you were upset.  And why not?  It's called being human.

I use colourful words that is my style, I assure you I am not upset don't make me start lol. Business is business for me, I don't take it personally when things go awkward, I never have, it's why I still love the job after some 20 years.

In regards to you not running a hotel service - I have a huge respect for people who run successful hotels.   They have a college degree in the field followed by training.  If you can run the operations part of your teaching service as well as a hotelier can, then you have something to be proud of.  We can learn from everyone, and probably should.

In a way I am a servant to my students but I don't think I have to put up with double standards even though with this student they have no idea that I thought their response to me was unfair.

[keypeg]

Service in this case does not mean being a servant.  It distinguishes producers of products (you make cakes, build houses, hand craft musical instruments to specification) from people who provide something.  A consultant, engineer, lawyer, doctor, judge and interpreter provide services.  If you told a court judge that he was your servant and inferior, I don't think that would be accepted. 

[pts1]

The problem was that I was mistaken and double booked the time. I rang them the next day to let them know I made a mistake and couldn't see them until next week and they just say to me, "We are very disappointed in you."

Lostinwonder

This is really simple.

You are clearly in the wrong.

You admitted as much in your first sentence.

Of course they were disappointed, and the degree to which they were disappointed may indicate how much the student likes you as a teacher.

But following this thread, you appear to be the one full of drama, defending yourself over and over.

As Paul pointed out, learn from this and don't set yourself up again. Its really not a big deal.

But you keep making a big deal by defending an untenable position.

You seem to have "issues".

And if you didn't want opinions about your personal situation, why put it on a public forum?

Did you just expect sympathy?

The mature and business-like thing to do would be to take full responsibility, learn from it, stop blaming the student and everyone else, and change your behavior.

This is very, very clear.