If we evolved ...

[m1469]

from apes, why are there still apes?

[birba]

they flunked school?

[Bob]

We didn't evolve from apes.  We have a common ancestor.  There's some little mammal thing in the past that we came from.  I think it might be Lucy.  I'm not sure.


Just because some mutation happens and that mutation thrives doesn't mean the original version is bad.  The original version can still stick around. Alligators are still around.  Their design still works for them. The evolutionary charts are misleading since they can imply the old versions evolve and die out.   They still find ancient fish swimming around in the ocean.


I'm blanking on all the details. I think "humans" split off.  Neanderthals came along, other versions of humans. We happened to get a smaller jaw.  Smaller jaw = more room for a brain. The brain filled in with more language abilities.  Advantage ours and we dominate everything else.  And we've got opposable thumbs.  Haha.  I'm sure we'd thrive even without that though.  We're smarter than everything else.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

from apes, why are there still apes?

That's the same thing as saying,  

If America came from England, why does England still exist?

And we didn't come from apes, we share the same ancestor.

[Bob]

There they are...  Everyone's great ancestor...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ardipithecus&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7GGHP_enUS455&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CbNEUazQAYXu2gWri4DoCQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1116&bih=497

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardipithecus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee-human_last_common_ancestor

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110621022317AA8zEBk


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution



Now if say Bic or Norelco were around back then... And Ardipithecus made money... Yeah, those companies could have made a fortune.

[outin]

 And we've got opposable thumbs.  Haha.  I'm sure we'd thrive even without that though.  

Damn evolution!
Playing would be much easier without such thumbs 

[j_menz]

Some of them gazed into their crystal ball and thought "Um, no way".

[timothy42b]

from apes, why are there still apes?

This question is normally considered a deliberate troll.  It's been asked and answered so many times over the past 100 years that nobody would use it today except to cause offense. 

Perhaps m1469 is new to the discussion.  Let's hope so.

It's really the wrong question, anyway. 

There are far more intriguing questions relating to human evolution.

If we evolved from ancestors that were NOT human (and we did, the evidence is incontrovertible) then what is the role of religion?  Was there a point at which we evolved a soul?  If so, when?  What was God doing during 4.5 billion years, before modern humans arose? 

[lloyd_cdb]

What was God doing during 4.5 billion years, before modern humans arose?  

It was actually 6 days of messing with things just to trick us into thinking it was 4.5b years.

I'm blanking on all the details. I think "humans" split off.  Neanderthals came along, other versions of humans. We happened to get a smaller jaw.  Smaller jaw = more room for a brain.

We're smarter than everything else.

To my knowledge, our success is actually the opposite of what you describe in regards to neandertals.

First off, neandertals and sapiens are cousins of sorts. We evolved concurrently, just adapting to different environments. Neandertals populated Europe, sapiens Africa. With Africa having less seasonality, there wasn't a strong necessity for adaptation. The volatile seasons of Europe provided a more challenging environment for survival. Neandertals developed more effective tools and weaponry, and actually had brains 10% larger than ours.

One of the reasons we succeeded is actually because we were DUMBER (kind of...). We were more reliant on a group mentality and division of labor, forcing us into (the original) social networking.  It necessitated the development of language and communication. In addition, the larger group size resulted in us having a greater genetic diversity. Immuno-diversity is one of the most important aspects of long term species survival. The larger group sizes also led to larger population gains to a point in which we outnumbered neandertals by a fairly large margin. The rest is history (giggle giggle).

Again, this is just from what I've read. I'm sure there is always a debate going on in the evolutionary community. As a point of information, it's not just the size that matters, it's what you do with it (huh huh). Because of the necessity of communication, our brains developed more complex neural pathways, not just getting larger. In fact, in recent history, our brains are actually shrinking. [Insert internet commentary about human stupidity here].

EDIT: We actually have neandertal DNA as well. While obviously relevant to our evolution and current state of being, I find this more interesting because of the distinction of species. Species are defined in a way that they can reproduce fertile offspring when bred with one another. This is why a mules aren't a species. Female mules on very rare occasion can produce offspring, but only if sired by males of either species(donkey/horse), not male mules*. My point being that it seems very odd to have any significant amount of neandertal DNA, although obviously possible with the rare multi-generational case described.

*There are no recorded cases of fertile male mules. There have been more than 60 recorded cases of fertile females since 1527, at least according to wikipedia... This seems astronomically low if you would compare it to neandertal/sapien populations at that period, especially if they were in direct competition with one another. But hey, obviously it happened.

[m1469]

This question is normally considered a deliberate troll.  It's been asked and answered so many times over the past 100 years that nobody would use it today except to cause offense.  

Perhaps m1469 is new to the discussion.  Let's hope so.  

Wow, that's a pretty silly thing to say!  Anymore, I consider comments such as that as a deliberate troll towards me.  Congratulations on your brilliant questions and addition to the discussion, however!    Perhaps, in the future, you will have the ***s to ask them yourself, in your own topic, instead of waiting for somebody else to ask something and then just snake your attitude into it.  

[timothy42b]

Wow, that's a pretty silly thing to say!  Anymore, I consider comments such as that as a deliberate troll towards me.

It's not silly, really. 

That question really is asked repeatedly on many forums, and it really is a troll 90% of the time.

As a courtesy, I wanted you to know that; it could spare you some embarassment.  Provided of course you really did not know that question was considered offensive - I gave you the benefit of the doubt on that. 

For the other 10% of the times that question is asked, it generally reveals two things about the questioner.  Of course either or neither may be true in your case, we don't know.

One is that the person rejects evolution.  (so it's really not a question at all, is it?  It's more of a statement:  if we evolved from apes, then there wouldn't still be apes.  There are still apes, therefore we didn't evolve from apes.)  Of course it could really be a question - the person could be honestly wondering.  It's just that we don't run into that person in real life very often.  If it's you, welcome aboard. 

The other is that the person lacks even the most basic information about what the theory of evolution says, but nevertheless has an unshakeable opinion that it is false.  This is a trap that leads to endless frustration.  It generates a series of well meaning posts where the others (some of them religious, some of them not) try to offer some education on the subject.  The idea is that once a person understands what the theory says, rather than what some antiscience website claims the theory says, the person will either a) come to accept the facts or b) come up with more intelligent objections that are more fun to debate.  Alas, in my experience, this education attempt is doomed to failure. 

You are correct about one thing, though.  It would have been better to spin off the religious question as a separate topic.  I probably should have tried that, although I suspect there isn't much interest. 

[m1469]

It's not silly, really.

It is to me.  100% of people who treat other individuals as though they are stupid for asking an honest question, and as though there should be embarrassment for doing so, while acting with an air of authority, do so because it makes them feel smart and cool in ways that they otherwise wouldn't.

[birba]

It's not silly, really. 

That question really is asked repeatedly on many forums, and it really is a troll 90% of the time.

As a courtesy, I wanted you to know that; it could spare you some embarassment.  Provided of course you really did not know that question was considered offensive - I gave you the benefit of the doubt on that. 

For the other 10% of the times that question is asked, it generally reveals two things about the questioner.  Of course either or neither may be true in your case, we don't know.

One is that the person rejects evolution.  (so it's really not a question at all, is it?  It's more of a statement:  if we evolved from apes, then there wouldn't still be apes.  There are still apes, therefore we didn't evolve from apes.)  Of course it could really be a question - the person could be honestly wondering.  It's just that we don't run into that person in real life very often.  If it's you, welcome aboard. 

The other is that the person lacks even the most basic information about what the theory of evolution says, but nevertheless has an unshakeable opinion that it is false.  This is a trap that leads to endless frustration.  It generates a series of well meaning posts where the others (some of them religious, some of them not) try to offer some education on the subject.  The idea is that once a person understands what the theory says, rather than what some antiscience website claims the theory says, the person will either a) come to accept the facts or b) come up with more intelligent objections that are more fun to debate.  Alas, in my experience, this education attempt is doomed to failure. 

You are correct about one thing, though.  It would have been better to spin off the religious question as a separate topic.  I probably should have tried that, although I suspect there isn't much interest. 

I have to say I, too, was sort of surprised to hear,  "If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes" coming from someone I thought was a bit more prepared, intellectually.  That's why I thought she was tossing these philosophical games out to see other people argue over them.

[thalbergmad]

Perhaps, in the future, you will have the ***s to ask them yourself   

Should that be ****s ??

Thal

[m1469]

Should that be ****s ??

Thal

I am not convinced the concept should be represented as full and complete, so perhaps it's most appropriate as is. 

[Bob]

I thought there was going to be something more, like that was something a student asked. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It is to me.  100% of people who treat other individuals as though they are stupid for asking an honest question, and as though there should be embarrassment for doing so, while acting with an air of authority, do so because it makes them feel smart and cool in ways that they otherwise wouldn't.

PRECISELY the reason why I don't ask any questions in calc!!!

[timothy42b]

 100% of people who treat other individuals as though they are stupid for asking an honest question,

An honest question?  That's the issue, isn't it? 

This one is a very common question, and very rarely asked honestly.  So anyone who asks it is opening themselves to at least misinterpretation.  And you have yet to clarify what you meant by it; it's kind of a hit and run post.  Why did you ask it?  Are you going to share? 

Nor did anyone say you were stupid.  I did wonder if you were trolling, which is a very different approach. 

Now, the m1469 of 3 or 4 years ago would never have been suspect.  But your posting history lately has been, shall we say, uncharacteristically different?  Several threads ending up closed? 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Now, the m1469 of 3 or 4 years ago would never have been suspect.  But your posting history lately has been, shall we say, uncharacteristically different?  Several threads ending up closed? 

Is she developing an alternate personality like J menz and ajspiano?!



m1469, you must fight it!!!  Don't let your new emerging personality take over!!!  Be strong!!!

[timothy42b]

Is she developing an alternate personality like J menz and ajspiano?!

She and I have been here about the same length of time, just under 9 years.  I miss the old m1469!  Send her back, please. 

[j_menz]

an alternate personality like J menz

Ahem!! 

Even on your own (lunatic) assumptions, you don't mean "alternate".

[fftransform]

Oh man.

This might as well be five kindergarteners arguing about quantum field theory.  So don't miss this forum.

[m1469]

Feel free to wake me after the BS has been shoveled and the concept of boy/girl interaction has graduated from puberty.  

[birba]

"Boy/girl interaction"?!

[j_menz]

"Boy/girl interaction"?!

I'm glad I'm not alone in being confused by that. I was thinking I was missing something obvious.

[j_menz]

Oh man.

This might as well be five kindergarteners arguing about quantum field theory.  So don't miss this forum.

Welcome back to the sandpit. I, for one, have missed you. 

[chopin2015]

If a tree falls down and no one is around, how would it call 911?....

 

[birba]

I'm glad I'm not alone in being confused by that. I was thinking I was missing something obvious.

i'm begining to think that's her intention...

[costicina]

I miss the old m1469, too

[lloyd_cdb]

If a tree falls down and no one is around, how would it call 911?....

 

Life alert.

"I've fallen and I can't get up!"

[birba]

The "old" m1469?!  I find this thread very typical of her.  Very intellectual, highbrow and just plain hard to understand.  But then again, I guess I'm not one to judge.  I was told in so many words,  if I didn't get it, i just wasn't meant to get it...

[ajspiano]

Is she developing an alternate personality like J menz and ajspiano?!

Almost certainly, but I don't think its at all like either of mine.

[Bob]

Maybe m1469's account got hacked.


m1469's posts are usually very wonder-y..-y.

[perprocrastinate]

I have the vaguest feeling that m1469 is mocking this forum. Are these ambiguous/controversial topics a form of satire?

[j_menz]

Almost certainly, but I don't think its at all like either of mine.

Help!! Help!!!!  PUT  ME BACK!!

[ajspiano]

Help!! Help!!!!  PUT  ME BACK!!

I wasn't taking about you.

My alternate personality's name is Edward, he's a bricklayer. Top bloke. Not at all likely to ask weird questions on a web-forum.

[j_menz]

I wasn't taking about you.

Oh. That's OK then. 

My alternate personality's name is Edward, he's a bricklayer. Top bloke. Not at all likely to ask weird questions on a web-forum.

I hope he takes good care of your hands on building sites.

[ajspiano]

I hope he takes good care of your hands on building sites.

I think you misunderstood.. he's a brick-layer.

Here's a photo of him with an overweight colleague.



..and a pen named James.

[Bob]

I wasn't taking about you.

My alternate personality's name is Edward, he's a bricklayer. Top bloke. Not at all likely to ask weird questions on a web-forum.

Edward's girlfriend is Tina.  She's a brick.  


I think that was a Mike Meyers joke about couple's Halloween costumes from long ago.

[j_menz]

..and a pen named James.

Here, you appear to have forgotten this morning:

[chopin2015]

I think you misunderstood.. he's a brick-layer.

Here's a photo of him with an overweight colleague.



..and a pen named James.

Like a layer of brick?

[timothy42b]

Maybe m1469's account got hacked.

That was my working hypothesis.

But now I'm leaning toward an actual personality change. 

Maybe she'll let us know what's going on. 

[birba]

I have the vaguest feeling that m1469 is mocking this forum. Are these ambiguous/controversial topics a form of satire?

My thoughts exactly.

[timothy42b]

My thoughts exactly.

Oh, undoubtedly.

But that mocking isn't in fun, is it?  It seems to be quite angry.

So that begs another question.  Is she angry AT this forum?  or merely expressing here an anger that originates elsewhere, which is really more likely? 

[lloyd_cdb]

First we need to define what 'anger' truly is...

[chopin2015]

Anger is much more severe than frustration. Anger can destroy relationships. Anger is dangeroys when it takes on a verbal and/or physical state, especially when rational thought is blocked out by anger.

 

[maul]

Intelligence - very rare to see these days. Certainly not seen in m1469, but in the rest of the forum, bravo.

[birba]

Well i guess we scared her away from this thread.  Now all she talks about is clonimg and original sin...
Let's move guys!
(Ain't i awful?)

[timothy42b]

Well i guess we scared her away from this thread.  Now all she talks about is clonimg and original sin...
Let's move guys!
(Ain't i awful?)

Uh oh..........awful thought...............maybe pianisstimo hacked her account!

[chopin2015]

Well i guess we scared her away from this thread.  Now all she talks about is clonimg and original sin...
Let's move guys!
(Ain't i awful?)

Indirect mocking of someone is mean...