How to develop "touch"

[nyiregyhazi]

Problem is: what is "evidence"? This method is used in Chinese circus with good success for acrobats to learn virtuoso acrobat movements very quickly. Do you consider that evidence? A Chinese trainer of acrobat children showed this principle to Alberto Guerrero, Glen Gould's teacher, who simply implemented it without thinking.

Chinese and Japanese trainers rarely explain why you have to train something in a certain way in martial arts, for a sample. They just say: do this or that because they are masters and know from long experience that it works. If you start asking questions, they will kindly smile, turn around or send you away and tell you never to come back. Knowing why is not important for good results, especially for students. He/she is humble and does what is told.

P.S.: Besides, the training principle may be correct but the (pseudo)scientific explanation may be filled with incorrect assumptions. This is the case in most piano "methods". Story of Guerrero finger tapping is here: https://www.musicandhealth.co.uk/articles/tapping.html

Beauchamp's version of tapping the upper segment of the finger is extremely interesting. It's very hard to get the tap right on the tip (and it can be very uncomfortable to squash against the keys if you don't get it right). Beauchamp's version is much easier and can be done from a more conventional position. I have a problem with my rh 5th (which tends to make inadequate quality of contact prior to depression, causing knuckle droop and wasted effort). Tapping that upper segment exposes whether the starting quality of contact was good enough. If not, the droop is severe and the contact feels flimsy and vague. When I rest more clearly against the key surface prior to the tap, the energy flows straight into the key without loss. This has been changing how well the finger moves on its own already.

[nyiregyhazi]

This is proving very interesting. I tried a bit of this on two students just now, one grade 1,one grade 7. It took some tweaking to get to the position where the tap is transmitted well, but once done it proved very effective. I had to get both students to make an effort to do the preparatory stand rather actively (not at all passively!), but to allow the movement to be go passively through the finger. Like myself, they had to pay particular attention to standing the fourth and fifth actively enough for the force to flow smoothly through.

Interestingly this confirmed quite conclusively that the collapse of the end joint is down to the wrong action- not down to weak joints. The grade 7 student still had a problem with the 2nd finger doubling back. However, when doing this it didn't work collapse one bit and she was able to move the finger with the exact same quality immediately after. It was all about firming the finger against the key prior to movement (with the knuckle pushed up high) and using the same touch of lengthening as was involved in the passive motion. Without pulling back from the mid and end joints, collapse vanished altogether.

[timothy42b]

Chinese and Japanese trainers rarely explain why you have to train something in a certain way in martial arts, for a sample. They just say: do this or that because they are masters and know from long experience that it works. If you start asking questions, they will kindly smile, turn around or send you away and tell you never to come back. Knowing why is not important for good results, especially for students. He/she is humble and does what is told.

I think martial arts training is a very good example, for two reasons you may not have thought of.

First, most traditional teachers use a "one size fits all" approach for every student.  Some succeed, some fail, they don't care.  They expect to weed out the less successful students.

Second, a huge amount of traditional martial arts techniques don't actually work.  This never shakes the belief of either student or teacher, unless either is dumb enough to enter an MMA competition and get owned. 

[dima_76557]

I think martial arts training is a very good example, for two reasons you may not have thought of.

First, most traditional teachers use a "one size fits all" approach for every student.  Some succeed, some fail, they don't care.  They expect to weed out the less successful students.

Second, a huge amount of traditional martial arts techniques don't actually work.  This never shakes the belief of either student or teacher, unless either is dumb enough to enter an MMA competition and get owned.

I did not mean westernized sports variant of martial arts, but traditional variant for mental, physical, and spiritual development (=art). No "weeding out of less successful students" there and winning is not important, so if techniques do not work in artificial sports battle - nobody cares. Everyone has his or her own path to go to learn something about self. Doing the movements as instructed without finding tricks or ways around them is crucial for inner development through such arts.

[hardy_practice]

Thanks for the link dima.  It's not evidence that it works but it's very interesting re: the origin.  Surely Gould is the last pianist, although maybe second to Lang Lang,  when you think of 'whilst remembering the relaxed and effortless feel'?

[dima_76557]

Thanks for the link dima.  It's not evidence that it works but it's very interesting re: the origin.  Surely Gould is the last pianist, although maybe second to Lang Lang,  when you think of 'whilst remembering the relaxed and effortless feel'?

You are welcome. I can not judge because I am in process of learning myself, but I see the same in all Old School: hitting target without aiming. Ego has gone away during practice and art itself speaks. Michelangeli is most beautiful to watch in that art with, of course, splendid sound result and at same time precision like bullet that can not miss target.

[hardy_practice]

Yes Michelangeli is very much the man.  I believe there's an Italian school which eschews superfluous movement.  And I like their taste in pianos.

[swagmaster420x]

hooooooooollllllyyyyyyyyyyyy crap dima_76557your english has improved so much within the span of like half a year based on your posts in march and your posts now. your grammar in recent posts is perfect. i never would have expected you to not have been a native english speaker. it's surprising to find that you aren't and that you were able to obtain a native-speaker level facility from slightly awkward obviously second language english in less than a year. are you some kind of genius

[awesom_o]

Yes Michelangeli is very much the man.  I believe there's an Italian school which eschews superfluous movement. 

It isn't just Italian! It's also Canadian. 

[pianoman53]

To develop touch, you need to play, analyze/listen to the sound, thinking how it could be better and what to do to make it better. Then you play, analyze/listen etc. once you're familiar with that, you do it the other way around - listen for the sound you'd like, think how it would be done, play.

[rmbarbosa]

You may wish to visit the site PianoCareerAcademy.com (Illinca Vartic).
Even if you dont wish to sign up it, you have there some videos where Illinca teaches the russian method of piano playing that is based on a great flexibility of the wrist, use of arm weight and a great importance of the tone.
Also, you may wish to play 2 notes slur (ex: cd -de-ef....)like in ex.41 of the 2º book of Liszt exercises: you play C with your wrist down, then D lifting it, then E "downing"...). Pay attention to the sound to obtain a singing tone allways with the weight of the arm and without any finger rigidity.
To obtain a complete relax, you may wish to do a very easy exercise: sit down and put your hands on your legs, without any muscular tension, then lift your wrists. Now, you are sustaining all the weight of your arms with your fingertips. Try it. Then, do the same on the keyboeard.
I must apologize my uggly english, but I hope you can understand what I try to tell you.
Best wishes
rui.

[rmbarbosa]

As you are spanish, you may understand portuguese idiom, so I put here another exercise in portuguese, because it`s easier for me:

Deita-te no chão, de barriga para baixo e faz exercício de extensão-flexão dos braços, com o tronco e o abdómen como uma tábua. Todos nós já alguma vez fizemos este exercício, verdade?
Agora, senta-se ao piano e - sem deixar o corpo ir para trás - faz o mesmo movimento dos braços, com as mãos no teclado. Sempre com os pulsos em relax. Todo o peso do teu tronco vai cair sobre os dedos e, destes, sobre as teclas.
Para tocar F e FF, e´um bom exercício.

Try to "think" the keys like if they are cheese, not hard keys. You press your fingers on the "xcheese"