This frustrates me...

[chopincrazy23]

Hello everyone,

so I have been seeing a lot of different posts of facebook and twitter about famous pop stars and what not, but this is really, really annoying to me because some composers and musicians that work 10x harder than them don't make anywhere close to, say, justin bieber's pay check. Anyways, I just wanted to know if i'm not alone on this, because when I bring up this point, everyone looks at me funny.

[perprocrastinate]

This is the way the music industry works in present-day- go for the money; appeal to the masses.

It's a shame, but life isn't fair. In twenty years the pop musicians of today will be surpassed by new trends. But it doesn't matter. I'll still be a classical music snob.

[chopincrazy23]

This is the way the music industry works in present-day- go for the money; appeal to the masses.

It's a shame, but life isn't fair. In twenty years the pop musicians of today will be surpassed by new trends. But it doesn't matter. I'll still be a classical music snob.

^ I agree, I find it very unfair

[faulty_damper]

You're doing an apples-to-oranges fallacy.  They are different and cannot be equally compared.  Do you know how difficult it is to find someone who is physically attractive, has a lot sex appeal, a little bit of talent, and who is marketable?

[ajspiano]

The music industry doesn't sell art..  its sells to popular trends and social requirements.

While the music of past centuries is without a shadow of a doubt more artistically sincere I wouldn't get too "snobby" toward current music thinking that baroque/classical/romantic period composers didn't write to sell based on social customs at least some most of the time.

[iansinclair]

The music industry doesn't sell art..  its sells to popular trends and social requirements.

While the music of past centuries is without a shadow of a doubt more artistically sincere I wouldn't get too "snobby" toward current music thinking that baroque/classical/romantic period composers didn't write to sell based on social customs at least some most of the time.

Oh quite!  I can't, off hand, think of anything other than the Art of the Fugue that Bach didn't write for his job, whatever it was at the moment!  Ditto Mozart.  And the whole of the Renaissance.

There is some modern "serious" music which was not written to sell -- most of the twelve tone and atonal music.  It is, in my humble opinion, a good thing it wasn't written to sell, as it surely didn't and doesn't.

I myself would have to say, though, that at least some modern "popular' music -- or at least popular serious music, such as Britten, Poulenc, Langlais, Adams to cite a few -- is every bit as artistically sincere as a good bit of the music from previous centuries.

Probably not rap, though...

[chopincrazy23]

I guess I see, and agree with what everyone is saying, but I just find how the music industry works a little bit weird.

[ajspiano]

Probably not rap, though...

Some rap is artistically sincere, though its usually more in the words than the music..  but the music is only lacking for lack of knowledge, not intent.

anything other than the Art of the Fugue

Can't say I honestly know the history behind that work, but being a "every conceivable kind of counterpoint all on the same theme" thing I suspect it was written as much with a teaching purpose as the inventions, sinfonias and WTC were.

[iansinclair]

Cheer up.  The longer you stay in the music industry, the weirder it gets.

Just don't make the mistake of confusing the music industry with the entertainment industry.  They sometimes overlap, but they aren't the same thing at all.

[ajspiano]

I guess I see, and agree with what everyone is saying, but I just find how the music industry works a little bit weird.

Its not really a musical trend, its an entire society trend..  In too many fields (artistic or otherwise) mediocrity is accepted as adequate. Journalists with poor spelling and grammar is my favourite..

Except perhaps in sport, where elite performance is half the time considered an acceptable excuse for poor behaviour in many other respects.

[j_menz]

While the music of past centuries is without a shadow of a doubt more artistically sincere

Rubbish!  What has survived from then no doubt is, but there was just as much "popular" dross around then as now, allowing for population/market size.

[ajspiano]

Rubbish!  What has survived from then no doubt is, but there was just as much "popular" dross around then as now, allowing for population/market size.

Can we compare some of the said dross from that time with some of that which has been recently created?

I have this feeling that the near monotone melody from kesha's "tick tock" is worse than something that was written in bachs life-time, was considered dross, but was still popular at the time.

[j_menz]

Can we compare some of the said dross from that time with some of that which has been recently created?

I have this feeling that the near monotone melody from kesha's "tick tock" is worse than something that was written in bachs life-time, was considered dross, but was still popular at the time.

Not easy to compare since most of it has not been recorded in any way. 

Try a few German drinking songs that have come down, assume they are the best of them, and I think you can deduce that "Tick Tock" has a long pedigree.

[ajspiano]

Not easy to compare since most of it has not been recorded in any way. 

Try a few German drinking songs that have come down, assume they are the best of them, and I think you can deduce that "Tick Tock" has a long pedigree.

My life experience suggests to me that without a proper listening it would be reasonable to assume that an 17th/18th century german drinking song would be a good deal more interesting and entertaining at least than a current one..  even if they may both be musically rubbish.

[j_menz]

My life experience suggests to me that without a proper listening it would be reasonable to assume that an 17th/18th century german drinking song would be a good deal more interesting and entertaining at least than a current one..  even if they may both be musically rubbish.

Most have a chorus that goes "trink trink trink trink" at a monotone, fortissimo. It's the lederhosen that gived the illusion of interestingness.

[ajspiano]

Most have a chorus that goes "trink trink trink trink" at a monotone, fortissimo. It's the lederhosen that gived the illusion of interestingness.

While not all that impressive, that does strike me as atleast a little bit less self involved and repulsive as "before I leave, brush my teeth with a bottle of jack" coupled with "the party don't start till I walk in" and "boys tryin to touch my junk, junk"

[j_menz]

While not all that impressive, that does strike me as atleast a little bit less self involved and repulsive as "before I leave, brush my teeth with a bottle of jack" coupled with "the party don't start till I walk in" and "boys tryin to touch my junk, junk"

You need to spend a night at a pub poetry night.  Serious artistic intent in spades, and lines very much like those you quoted.

[ajspiano]

You need to spend a night at a pub poetry night.  Serious artistic intent in spades, and lines very much like those you quoted.

The few times I've had to listen to the "love song dedications" radio program is more than enough genuinely intended drivel for my entire life.

[chopincrazy23]

Its not really a musical trend, its an entire society trend.. 

I know that the "hit-thing" wont be sitting at a concert, listening to classical music rather than jumping up and down at a rave or something. But if these are trends, Does anyone think that classical music will even get a little bit noticed?

[ajspiano]

I know that the "hit-thing" wont be sitting at a concert, listening to classical music rather than jumping up and down at a rave or something. But if these are trends, Does anyone think that classical music will even get a little bit noticed?

I don't think so..  I think that "classical" music (in all its permutations in the various periods that come under that banner) was a popular trend in its day, as is the current set of music.

Really though, I don't know that I actually want it to be really popular. There is more than enough people that do take an interest in it to make it relatively popular - this site is evidence of that - and I kind of like having it as a kind of niche common ground to share with a few people who genuinely like it rather than be constantly bombarded with people who know/like it just because its a trend.

I would still like it if the pop industry demanded a decent skill level so far as both performance and composition though, without it having to be similar to the music I personally like.

[outin]

Honestly I think rubbish has been produced in every era as well as music that will stand time. But the present technology just makes it so much easier and faster to produce music and get it to the masses, that there might be much more rubbish than really thought out innovative music produced. General audience is not always very demanding, they consider music as something to use for a while and then forget when something new comes up. It could have always been like that, but the common people had less money to spend before and they didn't have so many opportunities to listen to music because they had to work, so music mostly had to be composed to appeal to better educated elite which required more thought out and complex compositions.

[karenvcruz]

I tend to agree eith lansinclair.  However, when i was in my adolescent years, I did tend to enjoy the pop stars of that era and did not pay much attention to the classics.  however, as I got older, I can also say my taste had become more refined and broader ... I do appreciate a few of today's hits but 80% I am now more inclined towards classics from Bach, Beethoven, etc.

One thing I observed though, the world still does respect talent and classics ... one timeI watched a youtube video of a boy (around 7 I Think) who joined this America's Got Talent and amidst all the typical modern-day music, he played Chopin's Waltz in D flat and the judges were so amazed they had to get out of their seats to watch his fingers hop briskly through the keyboard.  Then, at another time, I witnessed a black guy, quite interesting - dressed in jeans and long-sleeves t shirt, and mentioned that the song he was about to sing was a request by the girlfriend who he was going to propose to after the competition.  In almost female-opera-coloratura voice, out from his lips was O Mio Babbino Caro by Puccini.  While the rest of the contestants were cheered by the crowd, this guy brought the house down with a thundering applause even from the judges.  When I saw this, I told myself  "Thank god, people of this generation still appreciate real wonderful classical music."

[nanabush]

Similar story for me.  I went to Busch Gardens in Virginia Beach last week with my family (we usually do a week long trip each year).  There is a section a little more dedicated to mythology (greek/roman style), and in the background of one area, we could hear 'Mars, Bringer of War' by Holst.  My brother went apeshit over this (he's 26 and is an aerospace engineer) and was completely blown away.

My sister usually watches the "talent" shows on TV, and usually runs across the house to grab me to watch an amazing singer or pianist.  The thing is, they are playing pretty standard stuff, but it IS cool that it can have such a sudden appeal to a non-musical person.

My pet peeve is the people growing up who live by the "classical music is for losers" mentality (mostly in high school) and that 'cool' people listen to Rock music.  It's really annoying because I'm sure that some rock musicians probably don't like having fans speaking for them with that kind of mindset...but ya those people end up having iPods with about 10 songs on them and nothing else.