Piano Technique

[reesabp]

Hi all,

I am a high school student who has just finished my Level 10 RCM syllabus.  I was wondering you could give some ideas on how I could really work on building my piano technique.  Are exercises helpful, and if so, which ones should I be doing?  Also, is practicing scales in thirds and sixths useful, and if so, any other tips on scale practice?  Lastly, what are any other suggestions that I can get to really build my technique?

Thank you all for your time.
-R

[agalien]

It is be very usefull to study Czerny techniques. (Carl Czerny) He has written a various kind of pieces with all includes finger placing. As a suggestion try to play some pieces from "School Of Velocity" Opus 299, Carl Czerny.

[1piano4joe]

Hi reesabp,

Use the search feature on this site.

Type this in exactly, "Technical Exercises".

Scroll down to Bernhard.

Hope that helps, Joe.

P.S. I personally love the RCM Etudes and am doing ALL of them starting from Level 1. There are around 15 per book. Sadly, examinations require only 1 or 2 of them. I am now halfway through Level 4. Again, I did All 13 of Level 1 Etudes from Relay Race to Celebration. I then did All 13 of Level 2 and then All 17 of Level 3. And "WOW" did my technique skyrocket!

I naively thought they were way below my level but soon discovered I had gaps (okay, chasms) in my technique. These can be excellent technique builders if used properly.  And you probably have all these books already.

[louispodesta]

" I think all exercises are dangerous and should be avoided - they  are foolish and a waste of time.  Liszt never advocated the playing of scales.

Exercises, including scales, are purely mechanical functions and do not help secure or maintain a good technique one bit.  Even if you were to spend hours and hours practicing nothing but scales, when you come across certain scale passages in an actual piece of music, the fingerings will almost always have to be changed, which can be very annoying and a total "time waster!"  You will never learn to play octaves or thirds properly through exercises.  They may teach you about staccato thirds but not where they switch - where the changes happen. . .

On the whole, it was through constant practicing and studying of great piano compositions and transcriptions that I developed my technique - not through exercises and scales."

Earl Wild, from his Memoir "A Walk On The Wild Side."

[dima_76557]

I think all exercises are dangerous and should be avoided - they  are foolish and a waste of time.  Liszt never advocated the playing of scales.

That statement is a bit "Wild", yes. If we believe it to be true, then Franz Liszt himself must have been kidding when he produced his 12 books of really fantastic technical exercises, the key to his repertoire: https://imslp.org/wiki/Technische_Studien,_S.146_%28Liszt,_Franz%29

[louispodesta]

First, I do believe Mr. Wild used the word "scales," when referring to Franz Liszt.  Second, most of the Liszt exercises are no more than an ego trip, which most piano teachers ignore.

Third, Horowitz himself told Harold Schonberg, who was the critic for the New York Times, that he considered Earl Wild's technique superior to his.

Finally, I challenge anyone to find any recording made by Earl Wild that does not show total technical mastery of the piano.  The proof is in the playing.

[dima_76557]

First, I do believe Mr. Wild used the word "scales," when referring to Franz Liszt.

The technical exercises I was referring to are either preparation for scales, scales themselves or ingenious elaborations on anything derived from scales. While Franz Liszt did not teach technique in his later years ("Do your dirty linen at home" (c)), this does not mean that he advocated NOT to practise scales or other exercises at all. Actually, his favorite exercise was the two-note slur with all finger combinations in all scales, all tonalities.

Second, most of the Liszt exercises are no more than an ego trip, which most piano teachers ignore.

Wrongly so. You may want to read the following study:
"Liszt’s Technical Studies: A Methodology for the Attainment of Pianistic Virtuosity" by
Neil J. Goodchild, University of New South Wales and find out that the methodology Liszt uses to teach us something about piano technique goes far beyond mere gymnastics for the fingers: https://www.appca.com.au/proceedings/2007/papers_part_1/goodchild_liszt_methodology.pdf (link to .pdf document)

Third, Horowitz himself told Harold Schonberg, who was the critic for the New York Times, that he considered Earl Wild's technique superior to his.

Finally, I challenge anyone to find any recording made by Earl Wild that does not show total technical mastery of the piano.  The proof is in the playing.

For each wild generalisation made by one genius virtuoso I can show you another wild generalisation claiming the opposite by another genius virtuoso. Let's see, for example, what Rachmaninov (not actually such a bad pianist himself) says about technical exercises and in particular scales in an interview given for Etude Magazine in March, 1910:
https://etudemagazine.com/etude/1910/03/ten-important-attributes-of-beautiful-pianoforte-playing.html (Under the heading "TECHNICAL PROFICIENCY").

P.S.: Earl Wild studied among others with Margaret Long (the French school), so he MUST have gone through the lot of scales and technical exercises. I can imagine that he hated those, felt that he didn't learn much from them, and therefore denied his own background. That does not mean that his personal negative experience with such exercises applies to just anybody else.

[louispodesta]

As Thomas Mark says: you don't play the piano with the muscles in your fingers. You articulate with your fingers, but you depress the key with the muscles in your lower forearm.

So, all of this separate specialty exercise is a waste of time because it is not the actual finger order of the piece of music you might be playing.

And, that is exactly what Earl Wild said.

As far as those who wonder how he developed this phenomenal technique, here is how it happened:

He studied with Egon Petri for a year when he was a teenager, who taught him how to play in a relaxed fashion with his fingers always resting on the keys.   Next, he studied with Roger Doguereau, who was a student of Marguerite Long.  It has been inaccurately reported that he was a student of hers.

Then, he proceeded to practice five hours a day for the next 80 years! And, that practice was playing the entire repertoire over and over, without any specialty exercises or scales.

[dima_76557]

As Thomas Mark says: you don't play the piano with the muscles in your fingers. You articulate with your fingers, but you depress the key with the muscles in your lower forearm.

Please take the time to read the paper I gave the link to and you will see that Liszt was of the same opinion: you don't play the piano with the fingers alone. Your claim is that exercises are useless, but I disagree. It's the way they are taught/used that is often so useless.

My coach/retrainer introduced me to the Liszt Technical Excercises, but in a very particular way. He just gives me a movement, a formula, a pattern that I do on the piano without notes, without the burden of having to accomplish something. As soon as I understand the principle and the simplicity (!) of moving, he shows me the actual text of the exercise. In that way, doing the exercise becomes fun because it is something I have just done myself successfully that is applied to the extreme for "endurance". Piece of cake. No obstacles. No struggle.

You also claim that literature, musical compositions are "better" exercise than the traditional etudes/exercises, but what is the fun of trying to play, for example, Mozart's Turkish March when the student doesn't even understand how to move? See here: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=50992.0

If the teacher had just shown in advance how to play broken octaves, then the student wouldn't have gone through a painful experience. I agree that an exercise from a book does not solve the problem. The teacher shows the movement and the student repeats after him/her, which is in itself already an "exercise", although not necessarily written down.

[rmbarbosa]

I`m not quite sure if the so called Liszt Exercises were written by Liszt... There are many doubts about that, you know?

[steinway43]

To  begin with what works for one person may not work for everyone. My teacher in high school gave me a good foundation but only some of what she taught me was useful. Some of it was hugely detrimental. When I complained about that fact she called me insane (talk about child abuse! But that's a separate topic; people with credentials who slander people at the drop of a hat).

I played scales in high school 90 minutes a day 7 days a week. This went a long way toward allowing me to play Liszt Rhapsodies then but relying solely on scales is a fool's errand, and on that I agree with Wild. I would never leave out the scales, though. One good thing about all that scale playing is that I don't have to practice them anymore. They're just there, they are burned into my nervous system. Now I just work on pieces, that's it. A scale comes up, no problem, unless it's not one of the regular scales. Then it needs a bit of work, at least for me.

I did a few technical exercises from Liszt's book but I can't say they ever helped me play anything. In the end I had to figure out a lot of things on my own.

[dima_76557]

I did a few technical exercises from Liszt's book but I can't say they ever helped me play anything. In the end I had to figure out a lot of things on my own.

The problem with the Liszt exercises is that each previous exercise solves the problem for the next one, so you HAVE TO do them in order to benefit from them. You cannot work at random because part of the problems he poses are neurological, not mere gymnastics for the muscles. First you get "positional" finger tapping, then 2 fingers only walk (or run) through all the scales, then 3 fingers, etc. I can imagine that any average student without guidance will throw the book in the trash can after a few sessions. That is why my trainer gave me the materials gradually, and only afterwards (after I had gone through the lot) did he give me the book as a present with a smile from ear to ear.