Performing things with reaches your hands are too small for

[steinway43]

Apparently it is permissible for some people to play Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto even if they can't play the opening f minor tenth chords in the left hand. I witnessed this done with the pianist playing the bottom f as a grace note to the chords. When I looked askance at our teacher she whispered to me, 'I know but he wins competitions.'  His performance was otherwise perfect.

So this begs the question; when is it ok and when is it not?

Is it ok in the left hand in third movement of Prokofiev's Sonata No. 6?

In Scriabin's Sonata No. 5, bar 26, the left hand chord is too big for me, but I can easily play the top d sharp with my the thumb of my right hand, hold it, and play the melody with my 4'th and 5'th fingers such that the listener would never know. Someone told me that was not allowable. I'd like to know why.

[cometear]

So firstly, check if you can reach the distance without any tension or pain. Next, see if you can fill in the other notes without any tension or pain. Now if the distance seems like a lot, raise your wrist up to substitute for the collapsed knuckles in the fingers. If it still is too much you may need to roll certain notes. Do not fret though, in competitions and performances it is accepted to roll notes if you genuinely cannot hit them without pain or tension. I refer to the Taubman Approach for all of my advice. Anyone you ask who switched to it will tell you how much easier to play it is. If your interested, their website is https://www.golandskyinstitute.org/. Again good luck!

[louispodesta]

For the record, Rachmaninoff rolled the chords in the opening section.  That is good enough for me.

Earl Wild, who heard the composer perform over 100 times, said that he rarely saw him play a block chord octave, and that he always rolled his tenths.   And, Rachmaninoff's natural reach was a 12th!

Finally, I list my original post on PS which comments extensively on the subject of rolled chords.  Also, you need to get the piano roll recording of the composer playing his C# Minor Prelude, where he rolls practically everything.

Further, there is a recording entitled "Scriabin, The Composer As Pianist," which are the piano roll recordings he made.  He is regularly rolling most of his chords.  That is also good enough for me.

[Bob]

I recently saw someone playing stride piano, Fats Waller, etc.  and there was no way their hands had a wide span.  I didn't really notice though.  They had to have left notes out, but it didn't really matter.

[ted]

With transcriptions of Waller, stride and swing in general, breaking tenths, either upward or downward, is rhythmically more interesting than playing them straight. I can play all but a few tenths straight if I want to, but 80% of the time I choose to break them for this reason. In this sort of music though the action is not "rolling" but a rhythmic jump from top to bottom or vice-versa.

[virtuoso80]

It's OK to jump chords whenever you have to jump chords. Simple as that. How else could you play the piece? Done tastefully, it shouldn't be held against you.

[ted]

In connection with my post above, I caution against straining to play tenths in stride. If you have a very big hand no problem, and if you have a small hand no problem because it isn't possible anyway. However, I now think that a hand capable of reaching them but not much more is in danger. I now consider the faulty way I worked on some of the difficult Waller pieces to have been a major trigger for the motor problem I experienced with the left hand, and which took over three years of hard work to fix.

What happens when these tenths are relentlessly and rapidly banged down, is that the index finger stretches away from the thumb, which itself  constantly stretches outward. Doing this intensely, many thousands of times is bound to produce some sort of automatised effect in the hand. How could it be otherwise ? A really big hand will not require pulling the thumb and index finger apart in this manner, but the borderline hand is vulnerable.

Obviously, I cannot prove a causal link, but it is funny how the issue gradually faded once I began breaking tenths. There might have been additional causes, of course, but I now suspect that this motion, over a couple of years, was the major trigger of the upset to my left hand mechanism. In any case, these particular grips are worthy of caution, I think.  

[steinway43]

Thanks for your replies.

Louis, you seem like such a nice guy. Do you coach adult students?

[chopin2015]

Cortot rolls at his discretion in ballade no 4. I roll 11ths. No way around it when my max is a 10.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Strategies+for+small-handed+pianists.-a0102521600

[chopin2015]

Btw, my left arm is much more flexible and has more muscle, probably because it gets more time to rest and rebuild muscle . Anyone know how I can stop using my byceps in dynamic shifts? Especially my right hand.

[steinway43]

Are there recordings of Prokoffiev playing his works?

*goes on a search*