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Topic: Question on Beethoven's Sonata #8. Mov 2.  (Read 2319 times)

Offline ttttrigg3r

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Question on Beethoven's Sonata #8. Mov 2.
on: July 02, 2013, 06:47:15 PM
Good morning all.  Can anyone help me read these two measures? Thank you. I've attached a picture.


1st question is in the blue circle.  How would I match up the beat of the bass to the treble staff? I know for sure that the last 16th beat of the bass staff matches to the C note of the treble. (Also what is the name of the flurry of notes denoted by that squiggly line called?)

2nd question is in the red circle.  The first three notes are smaller than normal notes. What is that called and how should I play them?  I've listened to the song many times, and it seems that those notes are almost separate from the song.  It sounds as if you take a break from the regular song to play those notes and then jump back in.

Anyone can help me out? =]

Offline j_menz

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Re: Question on Beethoven's Sonata #8. Mov 2.
Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 11:25:34 PM
The squiggly thing is called a turn.

It's somewhat a matter of taste, but I play the F for a full semiquaver, then G F E F Ab C all as even demisemiquavers so two for each bass note.

For the next ornament, the 5 notes should fit into the semiquaver rest. I use triplet-duplet division. You can extend the rest slightly, but I think it works better if you don't.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline musicman99

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Re: Question on Beethoven's Sonata #8. Mov 2.
Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 11:12:16 PM
I would personally play the turn as the F for the first semi, G F E triplet demisemis during the second semi, F semi during the third, and the fourth as printed. I know that this is not strictly correct, but it is often done like this in music of the Classical period (and early Beethoven). Try to find a way which you like. Ornamentation in music is very personal.

Offline mjedwards

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Re: Question on Beethoven's Sonata #8. Mov 2.
Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 04:53:47 AM
     Hmmmm... I would do it differently again: F lasts for the first 2 semiquavers; then in the third semiquaver, F (tied from the previous note) for a demisemiquaver, then G F E F as 4 semihemidemisemiquavers fitted into the time of the second demisemiquaver, and finally (in that bar) the Ab and C as written.  That makes the turn quite quick, but I find that suitable.  You could slow the tempo down just slightly if you feel it sounds natural, but it's not necessary.
     In the second bar I would probably do the small grace-notes before the beat, so squeezed (again, quite fast) into the end of the time allotted for the C at the end of the previous bar, and thus shortening that C.  Again, you could do it a little slower if you feel it sounds right.
     I wouldn't slow down and speed up twice for the two groups of fast notes, though, but just do the whole passage including all the fast notes a touch slower, if you decide upon the slowing-down approach.
     As for myself, I might slow down slightly for the passage, or I might not - that would be one of those things that I would consider subjective, and done according to how it felt right on the individual occasion.
     There is somewhere in the back of my mind the idea that, according to some authorities, the small grace-notes should start on the beat, and the C-Bb demisemiquavers at the start of the bar should therefore be a bit delayed - but I am inclined to think that, unless handled right, that could muddy the rhythmic structure of the whole passage.  And I have read of other authorities saying that the "before-the-beat" rule is not quite that cut-and-dried anyway, and that it is sometimes better to put grace-notes before the beat.  I would probably play them very fast just before the beat; but on the beat would work also if you could get it just right.  And a few liberties with a touch of rubato would probably work well too - again, if you can judge it just right.
     Whatever you do, if you can do it naturally and artistically enough, you'll probably get away with it.
     Hope this helps a little.

Regards, Michael.

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