TED talk on classical music

[frasers]

Hey guys, I am new here and I am a piano student, can I just say that this is the most mature and good natured forum I have come across on the internet. So, I don't know how you did it but believe me it does not go unnoticed!

Anyway, I thought you may like this talk on classical music's relationship with the modern listener. The pianist speaker is a bit of a funny guy (if you know what I mean), but the points he makes are interesting. I would like to hear some of your opinions.


Do you see yourself as a classical music snob/ or an apologist?
Do you enjoy pop music as well as classical music?

My favourite part was when he mentioned how Beethoven triumphed over his abusive father. It always stops me complaining about practise when I just remember what these guys went through  But it does show the triumph of the human spirit so bitter-sweet I guess.

[ranniks]

His intro is making me a bit annoyed. He talks like a know it all.

His scowling generalizing annoys me too.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I should totally get a tattoo of Rachmaninoffs full name in russian somewhere on my body.

That's pretty cool how he's a pianist.  Finally we get someone who plays in normal clothes.

[j_menz]

I should totally get a tattoo of Rachmaninoffs full name in russian somewhere on my body.

Серге́й Васи́льевич Рахма́нинов

Your either going to have to write small, or it's gonna hurt! I note in the vid, the guy misses the Vasilievich.

@OP - the guys views are on a par with his rach prelude.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Серге́й Васи́льевич Рахма́нинов

Your either going to have to write small, or it's gonna hurt! I note in the vid, the guy misses the Vasilievich.

@OP - the guys views are on a par with his rach prelude.

No pain no gain.

[the_fervid_pig]

Went into my local HMV a few weeks ago, there was a good sized classical music section with lots of used CDs for a couple of quid a piece. I have a wide and varied music collection, though whether or not they could be classified as popular is a matter of opinion. Interesting to hear about the adversities composers overcame though and rather puts one's own problems into perspective.

[cabbynum]

Te rachmaninoff was sad, I'm sorry, but it was just terrible. I did however love the end piece I thought it was funny.

But what he said, I liked some of it and I disliked some of it. I guess I can't say anything more vague

[the_fervid_pig]

Te rachmaninoff was sad, I'm sorry, but it was just terrible.

Well, it wasn't the best.... Saw him on tv a few weeks back talking about and playing Chopin etudes, he seemed very passionate, I enjoyed his interpretation, maybe he identifies more with Chopin than Rach, maybe he was having an off day with the above. I find him rather personable, but I've always had a thing for long haired skinny men.   He's trying to bring this music to a wider audience, you can't hold that against him.

[cabbynum]

I haven't watched the video yet, but I do like what he's doing. I guess he is the Neil DeGrasse Tyson of classical music. He may not be the best and he may not be the smartest, but he sure can talk about it and bring it to more people.

[cabbynum]

No pain no gain.

I personally want the rach 3 ossia cadenza just the section of the main theme restated in those monstrous chords. I want that tattooed on my chest.

Or my arm
Or somewhere that won't stretch much
I dunno.
But I have made a deal with myself, I can't get that till I have played rach 3

[davidjosepha]

Hey guys, I am new here and I am a piano student, can I just say that this is the most mature and good natured forum I have come across on the internet. So, I don't know how you did it but believe me it does not go unnoticed!

...


Do you see yourself as a classical music snob/ or an apologist?
Do you enjoy pop music as well as classical music?

Well, this thread has probably proven you wrong so far about how mature and good-natured we really are, but thank you for saying that.

Snob? Nah. I *do* enjoy listening to classical music in silence, I cannot listen to it if I notice someone talking, or coughing a lot, or even chewing gum. I can understand how that could come off as snobbish, but I think it's just that classical music is more of a "observe but do not participate" type music than most modern music, which often entices you to join in in some way--dance, clap, sing along, etc.

I don't push classical music down anyone's throat, but I do make an attempt to get other people to enjoy it by showing them a couple pieces. I find people are more receptive to it when they're high, that's worked on a couple people I know. There's a lot of elitism in the classical world, but really, these composers wanted people to enjoy their music. Sharing it is what they would have wanted.

As for enjoying "pop music", that's a bit misleading. There are tons of genres of non-"art music" that are not pop. I'm a pretty big defender of contemporary music. There's a lot of contemporary music I would consider more artful than plenty of classical music, but good luck trying to say "[insert contemporary artist here]'s music is on par with Mozart's" around pianostreet. One user at one point even yelled at me for having the gall to say that Fantaisie-impromptu, a piece Chopin didn't even like enough to publish in his lifetime, was a pile of sh*t. "So you think you're better than Chopin?"

I did however love the end piece I thought it was funny.

I have a feeling you only found it funny because the guy told you it was supposed to be funny.

[davidjosepha]

I can't get that till I have played rach 3

With the ossia cadenza

[frasers]

can any of you guys play rach. better than him?

[the_fervid_pig]

can any of you guys play rach. better than him?

Not at all, but I have heard it better. But like I said, I like his Chopin and I like his passion for the music, maybe he was having a bad day with the Rach. There's a discussion elsewhere on here that says Rach can't play Rach.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I personally want the rach 3 ossia cadenza just the section of the main theme restated in those monstrous chords. I want that tattooed on my chest.

Or my arm
Or somewhere that won't stretch much
I dunno.
But I have made a deal with myself, I can't get that till I have played rach 3

I never thought of actually getting tattoos of scores. 

That actually sounds pretty cool. 

But if I wanted to get a tattoo, what scores would it be from...?

Probably the Rach 3 or the Rach 1 sonata...

Have you heard the 1st sonata?  It's freaking badass!

[cabbynum]

I never thought of actually getting tattoos of scores. 

That actually sounds pretty cool. 

But if I wanted to get a tattoo, what scores would it be from...?

Probably the Rach 3 or the Rach 1 sonata...

Have you heard the 1st sonata?  It's freaking badass!

I love the first sonata!



To the other guy, I found it funny because of the way that he took a small theme and moved it around a lot, and creating a lot from nearly nothing.
I don't want to start an argument and I won't reply back if I feel there is one on such a stupid thing. But your comment was simply not needed. It didn't add to anything.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I love the first sonata!

Too bad nobody plays it...

[j_menz]

I never thought of actually getting tattoos of scores. 

That actually sounds pretty cool. 

But if I wanted to get a tattoo, what scores would it be from...?

Probably the Rach 3 or the Rach 1 sonata...

Either way, you're going to have to put on some weight first.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Either way, you're going to have to put on some weight first.

Weight?

[j_menz]

Weight?

They'r both substantial scores - you need more skin to fit them on. 

[davidjosepha]

Too bad nobody plays it...

Berezovsky does, and I think Ashkenazy too, although I haven't heard his rendition. Ashkenazy plays everything pretty well, but I can't think of a single recording of his where I'd say it's my favorite recording of a piece. Still, not entirely satisfied with Berezovsky's interpretation, so I might have to check out Ashenazy's.

can any of you guys play rach. better than him?

Yes. No.

I'm not really sure what the big fuss is about. It's an awful prelude, there's not much he has to work with. Although his interpretation might seem a bit excessive, I think an excessive interpretation is necessary on such a piece, given that notes alone, it's possibly the most repetitive, trite composition that people still play regularly.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Berezovsky does, and I think Ashkenazy too, although I haven't heard his rendition. Ashkenazy plays everything pretty well, but I can't think of a single recording of his where I'd say it's my favorite recording of a piece.

Yeah only like five people play it.

My favorite is Val's though.  I think hers is the most fluid.  If you know what I mean...  But after listening to a few others I think hers is just a tad bit too fast.

But wait there's this other girl on YouTube who played it on Horowitz piano and she's freaking awesome!

Ugh, I wish I could combine everyone's rendition together.  Everyone has something the other person doesn't...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

can any of you guys play rach. better than him?

You don't have to be able to play better than someone to have an opinion...

That's like saying 'oh, you can't criticize the president because you have never been president before'.

[gyzzzmo]

can any of you guys play rach. better than him?

It's a pretty easy prelude, only thing about it is that you have to memorize the last part because of the jumping.

We (I) could say that we play it better than him, but why would that matter? You'd first have to believe it, and then i would have to care whether you do or not 

[pbryld]

I found it pretty uninformative and the piece at the end vulgar. It was sort of funny at the very end, but only because I'm a classical musician, which goes against the point of the talk.

[davidjosepha]

which goes against the point of the talk.

I'm actually a little confused about what the point of the talk was. I tried to enjoy it, but I really couldn't figure out what he was trying to say.

Yeah only like five people play it.

My favorite is Val's though.  I think hers is the most fluid.  If you know what I mean...  But after listening to a few others I think hers is just a tad bit too fast.

I haven't listened to hers, so I don't really know. Have you listened to Berezovsky's? There's a video of him playing it on YouTube, but he plays it much too fast, and without any soul. However, there's a recording of him playing it that I have, although I don't know where I even got it or what it's from, where he plays it considerably slower, probably 10-20 bpm average, and it sounds great. Not saying it's perfect, but it's much much better. I'll see if I can find out where the recording is from and then give you details.

Ugh, I wish I could combine everyone's rendition together.  Everyone has something the other person doesn't...

This is one of the biggest reasons to play the piano, in my opinion. Although, Rach's first sonata is difficult enough that it'll be quite a while before I can try my own interpretation.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I'm actually a little confused about what the point of the talk was. I tried to enjoy it, but I really couldn't figure out what he was trying to say.

I haven't listened to hers, so I don't really know. Have you listened to Berezovsky's? There's a video of him playing it on YouTube, but he plays it much too fast, and without any soul. However, there's a recording of him playing it that I have, although I don't know where I even got it or what it's from, where he plays it considerably slower, probably 10-20 bpm average, and it sounds great. Not saying it's perfect, but it's much much better. I'll see if I can find out where the recording is from and then give you details.

This is one of the biggest reasons to play the piano, in my opinion. Although, Rach's first sonata is difficult enough that it'll be quite a while before I can try my own interpretation.

Really?  You think he plays it too fast?

There's like three different recordings of him on YouTube.  But I don't know of the one you're talking about is one of them.

I really like him, but I think he plays it too metronomic.  If you know what I mean...

Val has two.  There's one she does in a recording studio, and there's another one she does in the recital.

I like the one in the recital better, although there's like WAY more mistakes.

Weissenberg does a good job too.


Dude if I learned the 1st sonata, I could die any day and be perfectly fine with it.  It cancels out everything on my bucket list.

[pianoman53]

how about staying on topic, and discuss relevant things, than to discuss whether or not you want a tattoo or a rachmaninov piece?

I think the talk was quite good. It was more like starting a discussion. What I got from it was that we classical musicians should keep our classical pride, but not tell people how difficult it actually is.

I got an idea about afternoon concerts. Maybe a 45 minutes recital, with some nice relaxed talks about the pieces, without too dressed up, or without any real pressure.

I was in Prague a month ago. It was like 40 degrees! I got a good price on an opera ticket, but it was waaay to hot to get well dressed. So when I got into the opera, I got pretty much yelled at by some old lady.
If i wouldn't know anything about classical music, I so wouldn't go to opera again - ever. That's not really the development we want in classical music, is it?
That's why I thought it would be a good idea with some shorter, more relaxed recitals. If you're not into classical music, it's probably quite heavy to sit completely quiet for 1½ hour, with 15 minutes break.

That's what I got from it, which was quite nice.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

how about staying on topic, and discuss relevant things, than to discuss whether or not you want a tattoo or a rachmaninov piece?

I think the talk was quite good. It was more like starting a discussion. What I got from it was that we classical musicians should keep our classical pride, but not tell people how difficult it actually is.

I got an idea about afternoon concerts. Maybe a 45 minutes recital, with some nice relaxed talks about the pieces, without too dressed up, or without any real pressure.

I was in Prague a month ago. It was like 40 degrees! I got a good price on an opera ticket, but it was waaay to hot to get well dressed. So when I got into the opera, I got pretty much yelled at by some old lady.
If i wouldn't know anything about classical music, I so wouldn't go to opera again - ever. That's not really the development we want in classical music, is it?
That's why I thought it would be a good idea with some shorter, more relaxed recitals. If you're not into classical music, it's probably quite heavy to sit completely quiet for 1½ hour, with 15 minutes break.

That's what I got from it, which was quite nice.

The tattoo on his forearm was pretty nice...

I agree with the whole pride thing, but I hate how there's a bunch of elitist people in the classical community. 

Oooh and the casual concert idea is so rad!  Like even for the performer.   I feel like a lot of people get really nervous in hyper formal settings, and don't play as well versus casual settings.

Relaxed recitals = not nervous = better performances

I think...

[davidjosepha]

I was in Prague a month ago. It was like 40 degrees! I got a good price on an opera ticket, but it was waaay to hot to get well dressed. So when I got into the opera, I got pretty much yelled at by some old lady.
If i wouldn't know anything about classical music, I so wouldn't go to opera again - ever. That's not really the development we want in classical music, is it?

I went to a production of Puccini's Turandot by the Minnesota Opera company and felt very uncomfortable in my attire, although nobody commented on it or even looked at me funny. I was dressed in a nice pair of blue jeans and a sweater, so not particularly dressed up, but certainly not like a complete slob either. I think that part of it is just that because everyone dresses up to go to the opera, you stand out if you don't. It seems like a lot of people get very excited about getting dressed up. It makes the whole thing feel like a big occasion, I think. But I don't particularly get into that. I would've worn blue jeans to my senior prom if my date would have allowed it

There was an older man who sat next to me during the opera. His comments to me, though very nice, highlighted the issue. He basically asked me why I was at the opera. Not in a mean way, but sort of a "This isn't a thing young people do, so you doing it requires explanation." When people are curious about why a young person would choose to participate in something, that's a problem.

If you're not into classical music, it's probably quite heavy to sit completely quiet for 1½ hour, with 15 minutes break.

Hell, it takes work for me to do that, and I'm a big fan of classical music. Sitting completely still and in complete silence is difficult, and it's not something that is being taught to children anymore.

[gyzzzmo]

A: Do you see yourself as a classical music snob/ or an apologist?
B: Do you enjoy pop music as well as classical music?

Well OKAY, lets go back then

A: I see myself as a critical player and listener, but try to see things in perspective. Whether thats snobbish or like an apologist depends on the one who would be observing my behaviour.

B: Yes, but since i (for example) dislike repeats and like original chord structures, there is a lot more classical music to be liked in my case.
Also, as a classical pianist, i prefer listening to classical piano since it is way more interesting.
Btw since i dont listen to lyrics at all, it is also hard to compete for the pop music. They almost never have both good chords, good lyrics and few repeats. Exception is for example Queens Bohemian Rhapsody, wich i can really enjoy because of its quality.

[frasers]

You don't have to be able to play better than someone to have an opinion...

I think you have misunderstood me, I really liked the piece he played (particularly the chords) and was wondering if a better effort was around.
Yes, discussions would get very boring if you couldn't comment on what you couldn't do yourself. You would have to go on Jackass to say how stupid it is.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think you have misunderstood me, I really liked the piece he played (particularly the chords) and was wondering if a better effort was around.
Yes, discussions would get very boring if you couldn't comment on what you couldn't do yourself. You would have to go on Jackass to say how stupid it is.

Yeah if you YouTube search Rachmaninoff Op. 3 No. 2, you can find better ones.

[ajspiano]

So I thought this one was alright -
https://www.ted.com/talks/benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passion.html

As was this one, from a deaf percussionist.
https://www.ted.com/talks/evelyn_glennie_shows_how_to_listen.html

[dima_76557]

As was this one, from a deaf percussionist.
https://www.ted.com/talks/evelyn_glennie_shows_how_to_listen.html

Thank you for this useful link! This is what Paul (p2u_) repeats all the time: virtuoso playing on an instrument is not so much a question of ears. Much of it is proprioception and "listening" to vibrations the ear alone cannot actually perceive.

[the_fervid_pig]

I think you have misunderstood me, I really liked the piece he played (particularly the chords) and was wondering if a better effort was around.

Same pianist does it better here.

His Grieg Mountain King is rather exhilarating!

[cabbynum]

I like that one a whole lot more. It's voiced better and way fewer mistakes.
Guess the Ted talk was an off day.

The hall of the mountain king looks like a lot of fun!
Maybe I'll take it on...

[the_fervid_pig]

The hall of the mountain king looks like a lot of fun!
Maybe I'll take it on...

Good luck! If you do, post it in the Audition room!