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What the heck does saving money for college mean? (Read 1653 times)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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What the heck does saving money for college mean?
« on: July 12, 2013, 01:06:05 PM »
Okay, so I managed to get a little bit of guap right?

And everyone's like, yo, save your money for college homie!

And I'm like, OKAY!!!

But what exactly the heck am I gonna buy in college?

I'm just gonna buy the same ass stuff what the heck?!

And if I'm gonna buy the same stuff, then why do I need to save it?!

This is beyond me...

Cause I really wanna buy a fisheye for my camera, but I have so save for college...

So I guess I can wait until college and then buy the fisheye?!  What the heck?!  That makes no sense!

Alright I'm done...

Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline davidjosepha

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 01:37:16 PM »
I think they mean you should save the money and use it towards tuition.

Offline the_fervid_pig

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 02:17:45 PM »
You could get a Lomo Fisheye to put you on, but I suspect once the novelty's worn off you may not find much use for a "proper" one. Super Wides (8-16, 10-20) are cheaper and more practical.
Currently learning:
Mendelssohn 19/6           Chopin 28/4
Satie Je Te Veux            Rach C#m
Poulenc Bal Fantome       Chopin 28/20
Schubert Serenade         Chopin 15/3
Chopin 10/9

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 04:19:26 PM »
You need to save money for beer. Nothing else is more important.

When you start, you can have a part time job getting sheet music copies for me, so you can afford even more beer.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline the_fervid_pig

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 04:26:49 PM »
You need to save money for beer. Nothing else is more important.

Then the piano will go out the window though!
Currently learning:
Mendelssohn 19/6           Chopin 28/4
Satie Je Te Veux            Rach C#m
Poulenc Bal Fantome       Chopin 28/20
Schubert Serenade         Chopin 15/3
Chopin 10/9

Offline quantum

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 07:35:03 PM »
Do some calculations to get a ballpark figure of how much money college eats up.

Find out the cost per course.
Plan on how many courses you plan to take per year.
Guestimate about $200 in textbooks per course.
Add school supplies to that (computer, internet, office supplies, etc.)
Add rent
Add food
Add clothing (remember you may need performance clothes)
Add transportation
Add emergency savings



Just as an example: recent fees from a rather large university in Canada
$1000 per full year course.
Average 5 courses a year for 4 year undergrad music degree.
Private lessons require a surcharge of $600 above the course fee.  That's right $1600 for 6 months of piano lessons!
Add textbooks.

Using that model, let's just say $6500 a year in university fees.  This in no way covers cost of living and other school related expenses.


I would strongly recommend staying away from student loans.  Friends of mine have racked up $40k - $80k in student debt going that way.  They get you with the interest you have to pay back.  

Here's a random fact, courtesy of Canada Student Loans Program Actuarial Report:
"The federal government pocketed $369.9 million in student loan interest in 2009-10."


***

Regarding the fisheye:

This is just sweet:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-8-15mm-f-4-L-USM-Fisheye-Lens-Review.aspx
But waiting until after college, or saving up for it, or looking at the used market may be a good idea.

For a more budget conscious option:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/8mm-f35.htm

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 07:43:45 PM »
That fisheye of yours is probably very insignificant and expensive compared to the other things you're supposed to have/do during study, like food, clothes, rent and... beer.
Maybe you think its foolish now, but if you do buy that fisheye thingy you probably find that a lot more foolish during study  ::)
1+1=11

Offline quantum

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »
Another thought.  If you are serious with your photography and would consider doing paid work, the fisheye could work to pay part of your tuition. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline davidjosepha

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 08:01:58 PM »
I just finished my freshman year and I can confirm that you will be needing to allocate quite a bit for beer. I averaged a case a week last year, that adds up quickly. I worked 10 hr/wk too, though, so that helps.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 08:34:03 PM »
Another thought.  If you are serious with your photography and would consider doing paid work, the fisheye could work to pay part of your tuition. 

And since the OP probably plays the piano, he could think about playing in restaurants etc. If he's any good, there's quite a decent pay compared to the usual jobs.
1+1=11

Offline the_fervid_pig

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #10 on: July 12, 2013, 10:26:25 PM »
If you are serious with your photography and would consider doing paid work, the fisheye could work to pay part of your tuition. 

If he sells it ;)
There's way too many people trying to make money from photography now, and too many microstock agencies selling photos for pennies (literally). The restaurant piano thing might work though, or backing a singer and getting a few paid gigs. People always like to hear a song.
Currently learning:
Mendelssohn 19/6           Chopin 28/4
Satie Je Te Veux            Rach C#m
Poulenc Bal Fantome       Chopin 28/20
Schubert Serenade         Chopin 15/3
Chopin 10/9

Offline davidjosepha

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #11 on: July 12, 2013, 11:49:00 PM »
Or, he could get a conventional, boring job that will actually have consistent pay and be a nice mindless break from the work of college.

Offline Bob

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 12:00:54 AM »
Is it even possible to save for college anymore?  It's so expensive.

You're probably going in debt. So maybe the money gets spent now or gets absorbed by college.  If absorbed by college, it might be a little less interest on a student loan later.

Which is to say, it might not matter either way.  If you take out more loans, you just pay more in interest later.  So the price of camera now... plus x% of extra money you take out in loans, that's the true price.  But if you pay off the loans over many years in the fuutre, you might not notice.  Of course the loan interest compounds on itself...


After going through it all, you might consider stashing it away somewhere.  Not as numbers in a bank.  A safe deposit box maybe.  And don't tell anyone. The government and school take your finances into account.  They don't need to know everything.  Your parents will probably find a practical way for you to spend it too.  The less people know, the better.  


I don't see saving for college being that realistic anymore.  Not for paying the full amount.  You're going in debt.  $200, $2,000... It won't make that big of a difference in the long run.


I guess I'd hold onto the money now.  Only spend it if you really want something.  You have to live too -- If you skimp on everything, that's your quality of life... Times x-number of years.


And when you graduate (assuming you graduate), you'll have that music degree so you can get a job to start paying off those loans.  Hahaha.... If you get a federal loan, you can never get out of it.

If you're doing piano performance, you're going for a doctorate... Bachelors in performance, masters in perf/ped maybe, doctorate.... You're going to be in debt.

So you just take a few more students in the future.  Work a little harder.



What are you going to buy in college?
Tuition.  I think you said you had a scholarship.  That could disappear (Organizations might back out, yadda, yadda, yadda... Any 'contract' you sign if for you, not for a big organization.  They might back out of it if something happens like "... the financial climate has changed and the previous agreement is no longer feasible" ... even if everything's signed and agreed on.  I've seen that happen a few times since 2008.)  
There will be something that the scholarship doesn't actually cover -- Fees, extra fees, non-departmental activity fees that weren't part of that scholarship.  Surprise.
Books, paper (if you need it), pens, pencils, etc.
Crap for a residence hall room.
Laundry
Food, room and board   <-- Decent percentage of spending
Car, car insurance, gas money
any other travelling expenses, unless you stay at college the whole time
Health insurance if it's not with your school.  That might be a 'surprise, scholarship doesn't cover that' expense.
Clothes
Rent if you get an apartment, utility bills with that.  Cable/internet if you get that.  Etc.
Phone service, if you get that.
Probably a computer.  Assuming you do it all in four years, you'll probably need a new computer at some point.
You'll probably have to buy gifts for people.
"Supporting" a girlfriend or significant other.  They want to go out and do things.  $$$

Just browsing the other comments...
Yes, performance clothes.  Probably a tux.  You could rent one, but if you wear it more than once a semester it's cheaper to just buy one.
Emergency saving -- A buffer is a good idea.  With all the left over money you have.


I think your a music major, so you don't have to worry about lessons.  The professors will be happy to give you private lessons though -- They still have their own student loans to pay off.  Haha.


If you're performance... Are you really going to have time for a job?  You'd actually devote time to something non-music when you're trying to compeete with masters and doctorale-level people... Ones who are there now, ones who graduated, ones who graduated and are out there somewhere practicing?  There's not enough time with 24 hours in a day.


Not to fear -- The government and others will be standing by with loans available.  Easily available.  You just pay them the interest.  And you don't have to pay until you graduate, so you can ignore it all while you're in school.  Once you're out, you'll be a modern day indentured servant.  Haha.  When you graduate, you'll *have* to find a job soon to start paying off those loans which will be accruing interest by then.  In your field, not in your field, just something to start paying it back.  Probably not for the amount you thought you'd make either.

So... It probably won't matter whether you buy something now or not.

Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline the_fervid_pig

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 12:39:50 AM »
Wow, I guess some people really do get their kicks stomping on a dream....
Currently learning:
Mendelssohn 19/6           Chopin 28/4
Satie Je Te Veux            Rach C#m
Poulenc Bal Fantome       Chopin 28/20
Schubert Serenade         Chopin 15/3
Chopin 10/9

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #14 on: July 13, 2013, 12:48:25 AM »
 Tuition and room&board is already paid for.

And food.



Sorry guys I didn't mention it earlier.


I already have enough clothes!!!  The only thing I'll need is like a pair of walking shoes, and a pair of walking shoes in the snow/rain...  And a pair of skate shoes...  And an umbrella...  And a rain coat...  And sunglasses...

I don't drink, so that's not a problem!

Isn't the cost of classes & books and fees like within the tuition?!

Oooooh do you know what I should get?!  A poster of Valentina Lisitsa, and a poster of Scriabin.  And then I should put it on my wall.

And then I'll buy a poster of Bach, and put it on the wall.  And then put an alter under it, surrounded with candles.  So I can do my worship... >:( >:( >:(
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline quantum

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #15 on: July 13, 2013, 02:30:03 AM »
Isn't the cost of classes & books and fees like within the tuition?!

There's tuition, and then there are supplemental fees.  They will try to charge for anything they can above the official "tuition."  Real world college expenses are no where near what they propose to you on paper. 

Oooooh do you know what I should get?!  A poster of Valentina Lisitsa, and a poster of Scriabin.  And then I should put it on my wall.

And then I'll buy a poster of Bach, and put it on the wall.  And then put an alter under it, surrounded with candles.  So I can do my worship... >:( >:( >:(

Hold off on that until you get details on college printing procedures.  You may be given a print credit per year, to which you may print whatever you want (but really your supposed to use it for academic purposes).  Or you could get a job at a university print/computer lab where you can print as you see fit.

IMSLP, Pianostreet Gold, job at print lab....  you get my drift  8)


***

One way you can stand out from all those other  BMus, Mmus, DMA, PhD people is to not live in the practice room 24/7 and have skills in something other than music.  Sure practice is important, but remember practicing like a slave is not the goal, becoming a better musician is the goal, and you do not need to spend 24/7 in the practice room to do that.  Learn to practice efficiently, and live a life outside school. 

Thus, if photography is one of your other things, keep up at it.  One day it may serve you well to have the skills. 

When universities are looking to hire faculty, they prefer diversified people that have skill sets in multiple areas, as opposed to people that can do one thing really well but not much else. 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #16 on: July 13, 2013, 02:58:49 AM »


One way you can stand out from all those other  BMus, Mmus, DMA, PhD people is to not live in the practice room 24/7 and have skills in something other than music.  Sure practice is important, but remember practicing like a slave is not the goal, becoming a better musician is the goal, and you do not need to spend 24/7 in the practice room to do that.  Learn to practice efficiently, and live a life outside school.  

Thus, if photography is one of your other things, keep up at it.  One day it may serve you well to have the skills.  



Yo, I'm a skateboarder!  If I'm not practicing, I'm skating!  I skate TO and FROM the practice room boy!!!  I skate TO and FROM lessons!!!  Even when I do my recitals, I'll skate TO and FROM the piano!!!  That'll be good marketing!!!

Ah, I can see it now...

Come see Rach4eva kickflip his way into Rachmaninoff's 1st piano sonata, crooked grind into Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit, and finally for his ender ender, he'll inward heelflip over Scriabin's 5th piano sonata!!!

 8) 8) 8)

Low key that would actually be pretty cool.  That would totally attract an audience!!!



ANYWAYS...  My classes are spread out throughout the day, and I gotta get a job or I loose some of the money the school is giving me.  So my practice routine is gonna be split up extra hard.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline Bob

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #17 on: July 13, 2013, 04:11:58 AM »
Don't forget the grand piano after you graduate.  Expensive on your own.  Or you can use a crappy one with the entry job.

...

True.  Music. Have to buy it.  Or borrow a real copy.  I doubt a professor is going to go for a freebie version online.  Those might be some crappy edition that was discarded long ago, but found by someone, scanned, and reintroduced to the world.  Each prof will have their own preference for "the" edition to get.

...

Another thing to keep in mind -- The university and profs are earning a living off the cycles of students that come through.  Don't believe everything they say.  They're the sales people, selling you a degree.  It's in their best interest to recruit you, keep you there, help you graduate.  After that, they won't be so interested.  They'll probably also be interested in you most the first couple years and then back off a bit and focus on their new students.  Don't believe things like, "Everyone gets a job when they graduate,"  (which may mean McDonald's and is still technically still true) or "You know the Baby Boomer generation is starting to retire now and there will be lots of jobs open  just about the time you graduate."  I've heard the retirement line at different places and different fields for more than a decade.  People retire, but positions aren't always left in place.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #18 on: July 13, 2013, 11:24:28 AM »

True.  Music. Have to buy it.  Or borrow a real copy.  I doubt a professor is going to go for a freebie version online.  Those might be some crappy edition that was discarded long ago, but found by someone, scanned, and reintroduced to the world.  Each prof will have their own preference for "the" edition to get.

...



Dude I have soo much music at home!!!

As long as it's not like Schumann, Schubert, Mozart, and Hayden, I got it.  Yes, I do have Bach...  Unfortunately...

And Menelssohn...  I don't have anything from him.

And Alkan.

And Brahms.


Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline the_fervid_pig

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #19 on: July 13, 2013, 03:44:22 PM »
Dude I have soo much music at home!!!

As long as it's not like Schumann, Schubert, Mozart, and Hayden, I got it.  Yes, I do have Bach...  Unfortunately...

And Menelssohn...  I don't have anything from him.

And Alkan.

And Brahms.




Then you can guarantee that's what you'll be doing. I have loads of old scores, tatty but usable, if you didn't live so far away you could have them, ah well. You don't need an umbrella though, you think you're going to melt or something? Enjoy the rain!
Currently learning:
Mendelssohn 19/6           Chopin 28/4
Satie Je Te Veux            Rach C#m
Poulenc Bal Fantome       Chopin 28/20
Schubert Serenade         Chopin 15/3
Chopin 10/9

Offline austinarg

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #20 on: July 13, 2013, 05:11:38 PM »
You need to save money for beer. Nothing else is more important.

And banjos. Don't forget banjos.
“Talking about music is like dancing about architecture.” - Thelonious Monk

Offline the_fervid_pig

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #21 on: July 13, 2013, 06:43:40 PM »
One banjo's enough for anyone.
Currently learning:
Mendelssohn 19/6           Chopin 28/4
Satie Je Te Veux            Rach C#m
Poulenc Bal Fantome       Chopin 28/20
Schubert Serenade         Chopin 15/3
Chopin 10/9

Offline austinarg

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #22 on: July 13, 2013, 07:03:14 PM »
One banjo's enough for anyone.

Not for Thal.
“Talking about music is like dancing about architecture.” - Thelonious Monk

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #23 on: July 13, 2013, 07:07:50 PM »
I don't think i could survive on anything less than 10 banjos, or 10 pints of beer a week.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Bob

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #24 on: July 13, 2013, 09:11:26 PM »
One banjo's enough for anyone.

Is there a Moore's Law for banjos?  (banji?  Haha.)
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline outin

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #25 on: July 14, 2013, 11:30:37 AM »
I have a feeling R-4 will have no worries in college...

He'll spend most of his time studying/practicing. He'll need no money for beer since he doesn't drink. He won't need money for bus fees or car since he'll just skate around. And if he gets a girlfriend, she will be modern enough to pay for herself on dates (and maybe for him if she happens to be loaded).

I guess he'll only need money for sheet music and medical bills after his little skating incidents...maybe some extra piano lessons.

After college he'll probably find a mecenate to get him a beautiful grand piano :)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #26 on: July 14, 2013, 04:33:19 PM »
I have a feeling R-4 will have no worries in college...

He'll spend most of his time studying/practicing. He'll need no money for beer since he doesn't drink. He won't need money for bus fees or car since he'll just skate around. And if he gets a girlfriend, she will be modern enough to pay for herself on dates (and maybe for him if she happens to be loaded).

I guess he'll only need money for sheet music and medical bills after his little skating incidents...maybe some extra piano lessons.

After college he'll probably find a mecenate to get him a beautiful grand piano :)

And if I ever need money, I can trade Outin my hands for some cash.  Or an hour with Valentina Lisitsa...
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline outin

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #27 on: July 14, 2013, 05:05:54 PM »
And if I ever need money, I can trade Outin my hands for some cash.  Or an hour with Valentina Lisitsa...

Sorry, that's already reserved to someone else  8)
But I think I can come up with a few bucks...maybe you should try some of that beer anyway :)

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #28 on: July 14, 2013, 07:57:47 PM »
I don't think i could survive on anything less than 10 banjos, or 10 pints of beer a week.

Thal

Also if the heater stops working, both drinking beer and burning banjos works for fixing the temperature.
1+1=11

Offline quantum

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #29 on: July 14, 2013, 08:05:59 PM »
Yo, I'm a skateboarder!  If I'm not practicing, I'm skating!  

Then run with that.  Try not to get too caught up in the practice/academia thing.  It will be pushed upon you.  Some people like to be sneaky about it, and others will be bold and pretentious saying you are "not a real musician" because you don't spend all day practicing.  Pay no attention to such folk.  

What Bob says about the business spiel of colleges is very true.  
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline Bob

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #30 on: July 14, 2013, 10:16:10 PM »
Job idea -- Accompanying.  If you've got a scholarship, they might be whoring you out for accompanying anyway.  You'll get contacts.  Then you can pick up some more jobs beyond that.  It's a job in your area, more experience for later, etc.  Probably not the pieces you want to play, but it's music and you can earn money that way.  Still not nearly enough for cover college though.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline ajspiano

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #31 on: July 14, 2013, 10:42:00 PM »
in australia the government just gives you about 500$ a fortnight and in many cases pays for your tuition outright.. I guess its the lucky country.

Also, I'm not suggesting you give in to peer pressure (or make a habit of it), but you may need to set aside some of your life's income for beer. Even if only because beer in itself is awesome and satisfying, just as a flavour to accompany certain foods for example in the same way that wine is.

Offline quantum

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #32 on: July 17, 2013, 05:33:37 PM »
Accompanying is great, it will be in your field and can pay decent.  You might even get extra marks for it in your courses.  It could also be a required component of some courses.  Nonetheless, it is good experience.

Just don't let the college take advantage of your accompanying.   Sure you can do ensemble work for fun with friends and play music you are interested in.  Jam to Beethoven trios or whatever.  But if you are being asked to accompany rehearsals, lessons, juries or recitals and it is not for school credit, you should be paid.  Good accompanists charge a decent sum, and sometimes colleges like to get out of paying such deserving musicians.
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline indianajo

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #33 on: July 19, 2013, 09:37:44 PM »
I paid my way through college.  My parents fed me if I showed up for meals and gave me a room to study/sleep in.  No Air conditioning, though (in Houston).  I'd worked summers in a factory age 16-18, drove a truck and school busses summers age 19-23.  ROTC pay helped, and put me in charge of some things when I did have to serve the country (my draft lottery number was 36).  
I bought most of my toys after college. Hifi stereo age 20(in college) cameras lenses and darkroom, age 25. First new car age 29.  Piano, age 32.  House, age 30. Country acreage age 49.  Tractor & bushhog age 52.   
As a result of not having college debts, I paid my house off age 39.  When I became redundant age 58, I didn't have to move to some ****y  city with high taxes and rents,  nor beg for some ****y job where you live on an airplane all the time to do the same thing over and over. I just quit working. No boss. No beeper or cell phone. No urgent e-mails. No ****acious commute every morning and evening.   Nothing I have to do but pay taxes and clean up occasionally.  
Now I can practice piano all I want. I listen to LP's and CD's on the stereo or fiddle with forums on the internet. I attend free keyboard recitals put on by the guilds and pay to go to the symphony occasionally.  I work out, ride my bicycle, exercycle,  and walk a lot.  My BloodPressure, resting pulse, weight, chloresterol, are all 20-30 points lower than when I was working.   I'm living on x% of my liquid net worth, which should make it last 40 years.  When Social Security starts in three years, it will double my income.  
So pay your college off as you go, don't run up infinite debt is my advice. Freedom is better than lots of toys.  

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #34 on: July 19, 2013, 10:46:31 PM »
don't run up infinite debt is my advice.   

Very wise advice, especially when it comes to college fees.

University Education no longer means a guaranteed job in England, and I wager there are many students owing over £20,000 either unemployed or stacking shelves at Tescos.

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Offline j_menz

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Re: What the heck does saving money for college mean?
«Reply #35 on: July 20, 2013, 10:44:21 AM »
don't run up infinite debt

No, do.  If I owe $100, it's my problem. If I owe $1,000,000,000,000 it's your problem. Ask the president.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant