"Taught" to be a racist?

[thalbergmad]

I did ask you what you thought might be an acceptable and viable maximum population for Britain today and what proportion thereof you might consider to be acceptable as its immigrant content and, although you have yet to answer that, it would be hard to imagine that you did not have answers thereto.

What a silly question. Let us pull some figures out of the air. 68,742,643 and 0.003%. Satisfied??

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I might add the question of whether you might personally consider that applications for immigration into Britain (i.e from people who are not already British or EU citizens currently living outside Britain and who'd therefore have no need to make them) ought to be restricted not only to a set maximum annual tally but also territorially, i.e. Norwegian but not Somalian, South African but not Mexican, American but not Vietnamese, for example; perhaps you might care to tell us.

Of course there needs to be an overall limit, but equally important is the quality of the immigrants.

We want skilled and hard workers that can add to our Society, but we don't want loafers, muggers,  pimps, whores, shoplifters and other associated pond life as we already have more than sufficient numbers.

To allow people in that are immediately going to be a burden is absurd and only loony lefties would think otherwise.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

Of course there needs to be an overall limit, but equally important is the quality of the immigrants.

We want skilled and hard workers that can add to our Society, but we don't want loafers, muggers,  pimps, whores, shoplifters and other associated pond life as we already have more than sufficient numbers.

To allow people in that are immediately going to be a burden is absurd and only loony lefties would think otherwise.

Thal

The problem for Brittain (and France) is more like how they receive those immigrants. Its not about maximum population; Holland for example has a way bigger density than GB and also has a lack of low qualified technical personel. They, however, are better at integrating those people into the industry and therefore helping industry instead of helping crime.

[thalbergmad]

They, however, are better at integrating those people into the industry and therefore helping industry instead of helping crime.

Fine if you have the vacancies, but difficult if you do not. We have a high rate of youth unemployment as it is, so we need to fix the problems for our existing population before letting in thousands more.

Besides, not all immigrants come here looking for "legal work" and our soft touch benefits system is easily abused. Crime is a way of life on the streets of London and the Romanian Pickpocketing industry is probably one of the only growth industry in the Country.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

Fine if you have the vacancies, but difficult if you do not. We have a high rate of youth unemployment as it is, so we need to fix the problems for our existing population before letting in thousands more.

There might be youth unemployment, but in segments like mechanics, IT and healthcare there's still a shortage, usually jobs that are not all that heroic but which the average western european usually does not want to fullfill. Too many people are studying arts (yes, piano too), phylosophy, psychology and more of those luxury-jobs, instead of what has a good potential.
Thats where there eastern-europeans come in, at least if their criminal countrymen gives them the job they promised in the rich west

[thalbergmad]

There might be youth unemployment, but in segments like mechanics, IT and healthcare there's still a shortage, usually jobs that are not all that heroic but which the average western european usually does not want to fullfill.

This is true, but the reason the average Brit does not want to do "unheroic" jobs is because the benefits system pays many of them more money to sit at home and breed more loafers, than they could earn in employment. Thankfully, the government is taking action to remedy this, but we still have more than enough unemployed to fill vacancies.

I welcome immigrants who have a job to come to and no doubt the NHS would have collapsed without them, but the fact remains that thousands come here without work and immediately become a burden on the state. Unfortunately, many come here to commit crime and defraud our lax benefits system. These kind of people we can do without.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Taken on Park Lane. No wonder the local shopkeepers are less than overjoyed.

No doubt all of this group have jobs in mechanics or IT. I refuse to believe that any of them are beggars and shoplifters.

Lets let a few more thousand in so the poor dears can improve their lifestyle. Bollocks to the racist English.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

Few come here to commit crime, but indeed many are forced to commit fraud with social security. We all would like to have those chaps sent back to harass their own country, but still it wouldnt be fair to blame their culture and country

The thing about discrimination is, that would we have born in their circumstances, we would have done the same thing with the same bad luck and 'potentials'. Is it really blamable then?

[ahinton]

Hopefully Hinty will read this. But since large scale immigration does not affect him in his remote bolthole, I doubt if he will pay much notice.

I pay plenty of notice and, as I've already said more than once, the remoteness of my current location (which is anything but a "bolt hole") does not mean that it is free of immigrants - far from it - so of course it "affects" me to the extent that I am very well aware of all the eastern Europeans around me.

Large scale immigation and emigration affects all of us, of course, but it will nevertheless go on happening in ever increasing quantities whether you or anyone else likes it or not, because that's what many people want more and more to do - relocate. We all live where we do until we move, but we don't "possess" that location in any meaningful way; it's not "ours", beyond the fact of paying taxes to corrupt governments that are supposed to govern it in order that they may do things of which we might in any case largely disapprove.

Everywhere to which anyone at any time might want to relocate is up for grabs; I don't care too much about "immigration" as a subject because I don't particularly "belong" where I am or indeed to anywhere else. Scotland for the Scots only? Rubbish! Why? Borders between countries still exist but are being undermined daily, not so much by wars and other aggression but by technology and people's aspirations; no one will ever stop that.

Get used to it; it's a fact - and laws that seek to control population movements will do very little to stop populations from moving where they want to move, short of wholesale genocide on a scale that even WWI and WWII never witnessed..

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Few come here to commit crime, but indeed many are forced to commit fraud with social security.

The more we let in, the worse it will get and nobody is forced to commit benefit fraud. These people can certainly make more money per day in begging and thieving than i can. One beggar that was arrested and questioned by the Police was found to be earning £50,000 a year tax free. I can only dream of this.

Just because they are discriminated against in their own Country does not mean we should fling open our doors and end up as a haven for the pond life of Eastern Europe.

I don't blame them for wanting to come here and hopefully they don't blame me for wanting to keep them out. They have nothing of value to offer a civilised Western European society and are better suited to the filthy hovels from whence they originated.

Thal

[ahinton]

The more we let in, the worse it will get and nobody is forced to commit benefit fraud. These people can certainly make more money per day in begging and thieving than i can. One beggar that was arrested and questioned by the Police was found to be earning £50,000 a year tax free. I can only dream of this.

Just because they are discriminated against in their own Country does not mean we should fling open our doors and end up as a haven for the pond life of Eastern Europe.

I don't blame them for wanting to come here and hopefully they don't blame me for wanting to keep them out. They have nothing of value to offer a civilised Western European society and are better suited to the filthy hovels from whence they originated.

Yet in Bulgaria in particular there have been all manner of moves to try to get Western Europeans to go out there and develop places for the rich. I do not disagree with everything that you say but I do wish that you could better recognise that it's not just certain immoral advantage-taking immigrants that are causing problems here but almost all of us, perhaps most notably those for whom we vote and those whose often questionable business activities we have no choice but to subsidise. Yes - "we're all in this together", whether we like it or not! - and verbal or other expressions of "racism" (to return to the thread topic) serve only to exacerbate what are already grave and insoluble problems.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

The more we let in

You're doing it again!  - "letting in" doesn't apply when those who are already in possession of British or EU passports can move more or less where they want to within EU, including even Wisbechistan, Petterssonborough, Boston (that famous terrorist centre) and the end where the graves are.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Get used to it; it's a fact - and laws that seek to control population movements will do very little to stop populations from moving where they want to move.

Eventually, out of necessity, population movements will be controlled. The Swiss have very recently announced limits due to concerns on levels of foreigners and they are probably the most laid back and welcoming Country on Earth.

In the UK, thanks to sensible policies, thousands of non EU migrants have been kept out due to minimum earnings requirements and hopefully if we can keep Labour out of Government and move further away from stupid EU rules, we can make some ground in limiting EU immigration.

For too long we have been a soft touch and I long for a far tougher stance that now looks a possibility.  

Get used to it, it will happen.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

You're doing it again!  - "letting in" doesn't apply when those who are already in possession of British or EU passports can move more or less where they want to within EU, including even Wisbechistan, Petterssonborough, Boston (that famous terrorist centre) and the end where the graves are.

No doubt all the bright fellows in my photo above have all the required documents. They probably have several each for multiple claims.

I hope the NHS is ready when restrictions are dropped on the 1st january 2014 and our Romanian and Bulgarian friends can claim the same benefits and NHS care as other EU citizens.

Don't worry though, they will probably not head for Eaton Bishop and disturb your early morning coffee by hunting swans.

Thal

[ahinton]

Eventually, out of necessity, population movements will be controlled. The Swiss have very recently announced limits due to concerns on levels of foreigners and they are probably the most laid back and welcoming Country on Earth.

In the UK, thanks to sensible policies, thousands of non EU migrants have been kept out due to minimum earnings requirements and hopefully if we can keep Labour out of Government and move further away from stupid EU rules, we can make some ground in limiting EU immigration.

For too long we have been a soft touch and I long for a far tougher stance that now looks a possibility.  

Get used to it, it will happen.

Of course some population movement controls need to be in place in every country, not only Britain but, so far, they have not prevented illegal immigration to Britain and even you would surely agree that this is a graver problem than the number of Romanians who might come to Britain legally. Government cutbacks in various services will ensure that illegal immigration will increase, because fewer resources will be allocated to finding and expelling illegal immigrants.

I don't think that Labour stand the remotest chance of being in government any time soon, but I also doubt that there's going to be strong government of any kind; Britain is borrowed up to the hilt and remains so despite all the cutbacks. We've had a coalition for over three years and it would not surprise me if we have another one following the next UK General Election.

As far as legal immigration is concerned, what makes you appear to be so confident that the only country people want to come to is Britain? And do you not think that the British will still indirectly be affected by population movements to other EU states such as France, Germany, &c.? - for almost everything that goes on anywhere in EU is bound to affect UK to some extent.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

What a silly question. Let us pull some figures out of the air. 68,742,643 and 0.003%. Satisfied??

That you've answered the question, yes - but with the answr itself, no, since it appears to suggest that you are content with the overall population level as now it is, immigrants and al and the percentage that you cite does not accord to the current situation, since it indicates that there are currently only 2,062 immigrants in Britain, which I think you know is something of an underestimate!

Will you want all Scots to leave England, Wales and Northern Ireland if Scotland becomes independent next year? If so, you'll have to hope tht their application to join EU will be unsuccessful.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

No doubt all the bright fellows in my photo above have all the required documents. They probably have several each for multiple claims.

I hope the NHS is ready when restrictions are dropped on the 1st january 2014 and our Romanian and Bulgarian friends can claim the same benefits and NHS care as other EU citizens.

Don't worry though, they will probably not head for Eaton Bishop and disturb your early morning coffee by hunting swans.

Indeed, I do not suppose that they will; three reasons for this are
1. I do not live in Eaton Bishop
2. There are no swans in Eaton Bishop and the swan population on the nearest river, the Wye, is minuscule
3. As I am now getting rather tired of repeating, there are Romanians as well as other eastern Europeans in the area already and they don't disturb my morning coffee now.

I'm not sure wheter you take the same view of asylum seekers as you do about other immigration applicants, but have a look at https://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/briefingPaper/document/108, with at least some of which you are probably already familiar; what price this when even the UK Border Agency has been shown to have failed to act upon information provided to it by the police, especially now that the police themselves are being subjected to economic cutbacks? How do you view the now widely publicised prospect that dealing with the current backlog of asylum seeker applications will take some 40 years - and even then only if there are no more such applicants during the next 40 years, which is hardly likely. As one Afghan has ruefully noted, "I hope that my application will be treated with sympathy; after all, I didn't invite the British to my country - they just came anyway".

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

As far as legal immigration is concerned, what makes you appear to be so confident that the only country people want to come to is Britain?

Not the only Country, but one of the most popular. Some German Cities have suffered already from the influx of Romanians, but they do not seem to be "understanding" as us.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

How do you view the now widely publicised prospect that dealing with the current backlog of asylum seeker applications will take some 40 years - and even then only if there are no more such applicants during the next 40 years, which is hardly likely. As one Afghan has ruefully noted, "I hope that my application will be treated with sympathy; after all, I didn't invite the British to my country - they just came anyway".

Ideally, outstanding applicants need to returned to their home Country or be deported whilst their applications are being dealt with, but this seems to rarely happen. However I celebrate every single one that is thrown out which if memory serves was in the thousands last year.

As for your Afghan friend, perhaps he should question why our forces are fighting for his Country and he has decided to run away. Why we risk our soldiers lives for people like this is beyond me. We should pull our forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq and let the savages continue killing each other. Why we have to be involved is beyond me.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Will you want all Scots to leave England, Wales and Northern Ireland if Scotland becomes independent next year?

Of course not. I just hope that English tax payers money stops going over the border.

The Scots will never vote for Independence as long there is still milk flowing from the teat.

Thal

[ahinton]

Of course not. I just hope that English tax payers money stops going over the border.

The Scots will never vote for Independence as long there is still milk flowing from the teat.

Given the level of borrowings, I rather doubt what you write here, but I don't happen to think that Scotland will vote for independence for other reasons, although, of course, I could be wrong about that.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Given the level of borrowings, I ratgher doubt what you write here, but I don't happen to think that Scotland will vote for independence for other reasons, although, of course, I could be wrong about that.

Almost certainly they will not. Benefits like free old age care will disappear once they are in charge of their own finances and no longer supported by others.

Thal

[ahinton]

Almost certainly they will not. Benefits like free old age care will disappear once they are in charge of their own finances and no longer supported by others.

I do not see those freebies for the over-60s, such as free NHS eye tests and prescriptions, free bus passes, winter fuel allowances and the rest lasting much longer anyway, regardless of immigration figures or whether or not Scotland breaks away from UK; indeed, I cannot see much of a future for state retirement benefit either. When too large a proportion of all of these are funded from government borrowings, the writing will inevitably appear on the wall eventually.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

When too large a proportion of all of these are funded from government borrowings, the writing will inevitably appear on the wall eventually.

And for the Scots, not a moment too soon, given the support they have when care for the elderly is required, which is something some English end up having to sell their houses for.

Thal

[oxy60]

Your welfare including all government benefits is too high and your wages are too low. It's that simple. A person sitting still can do better than working.

Once the wages come up the employer will choose the more productive employee, rather than one of those people on the grass. And the person at home will apply for a job because there is more money in it. The only reason you have all those cheating problems is that there is real money to be made gaming the system.

[thalbergmad]

Well said that man. All of the problems of England in a couple of sentences.

The major problem being is that large scale immigration brings down wages. Immigrants living 15 to a house and sharing rent can afford to work for a pittance, whilst the man with a mortgage, a wife and two children cannot. We have consigned a generation to dependency due to our inability to control our borders. Historically, immigrants are prepared to do more for less.

Our government is wisely capping benefits in an attempt to make work pay, but it is going to be a long and hard battle against loafers and left wing imbeciles. Thanks to the last Labour government, in 2010, employment among working age people rose by 181,000, yet employment levels among British nationals rose by just 14,000, or less than 8 per cent of the total. And before Hinty logs on from his cosy remote farmhouse having visited his one Moldovian neighbour who is probably 10 miles away, these figures were produced by the Office of national statistics.

Benefit capping is important, but immigrant capping is even more important. We have more than sufficient people already to do the jobs, but lack the backbone to get them to do it.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Great news from Australia today. A bold and wise decision to slow the influx.

Thal

[oxy60]

Well said that man. All of the problems of England in a couple of sentences.

The major problem being is that large scale immigration brings down wages. Immigrants living 15 to a house and sharing rent can afford to work for a pittance, whilst the man with a mortgage, a wife and two children cannot. We have consigned a generation to dependency due to our inability to control our borders. Historically, immigrants are prepared to do more for less.

Our government is wisely capping benefits in an attempt to make work pay, but it is going to be a long and hard battle against loafers and left wing imbeciles. Thanks to the last Labour government, in 2010, employment among working age people rose by 181,000, yet employment levels among British nationals rose by just 14,000, or less than 8 per cent of the total. And before Hinty logs on from his cosy remote farmhouse having visited his one Moldovian neighbour who is probably 10 miles away, these figures were produced by the Office of national statistics.

Benefit capping is important, but immigrant capping is even more important. We have more than sufficient people already to do the jobs, but lack the backbone to get them to do it.

Thal

We have exactly the same problem here in the US.

Every day outside of builder's supply shops are people looking for work. They may or may not have papers and may or may not have the skills but they will work the whole day for what I pay one man for an hour. The reality is they don't have the skills and my man will out produce what they do in a day in one hour. Plus get it right!

We've tried capping benefits, tightening regulations but it hasn't worked. Oddly it's the unions who have come to our rescue with prevailing wage job site contracts. Whether you hire a union or non-union worker you pay the same. All of a sudden the bi-lingual crew is a thing of the past.

Believe me your influx is there for the money and not for the weather!

[thalbergmad]

Believe me your influx is there for the money and not for the weather!

No doubt about that.

The most important thing however, is despite our immigration problems past, present and future, Hinty will be OK. We are not going to get a gang of Albanian Archivists wanting to undercut his prices, so he can happily carry on with his relaxed attitude.

Thal

[ahinton]

The most important thing however, is despite our immigration problems past, present and future, Hinty will be OK. We are not going to get a gang of Albanian Archivists wanting to undercut his prices, so he can happily carry on with his relaxed attitude.

I do not have a "relaxed attitude" to what I do and circumstances make it impossible to have one; I also was invited to entertain a number of Albanian librarians on a research trip some years ago at our previous location. I will not be "OK" unless thieves stop nicking scores and recordings - and most of those thieves are not eastern Europeans or Asians, in my experience.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

More great new. The "occupants" on my photo above have been removed and some deported.

Well done to the authorities. The law abiding citizens of London will be a little safer tomorrow.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I will not be "OK" unless thieves stop nicking scores and recordings - and most of those thieves are not eastern Europeans or Asians, in my experience.

A horrible offence indeed, but not as bad as people trafficking, forced prostitution, street robbery and benefit fraud, many of which are eastern Europeans and Asians.

Thal

[g_s_223]

Who are the thieves? One answer: https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21581779-professional-crime-gangs-eastern-europe-are-targeting-german-cities-gang-l-nder

[j_menz]

Who are the thieves? One answer:

Another answer:

[thalbergmad]

Who are the thieves? One answer: https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21581779-professional-crime-gangs-eastern-europe-are-targeting-german-cities-gang-l-nder

They are here to in England.

Thal